Red Sox 2012/2013 Offseason Thread

[mvp 78]

If Lohse was a good pitcher, he'd be worth the pick and $10M. Unfortunately for him, he's not. Do you really want Brad Penny part II?

 

Putting 2 NL pitchers in this rotation would sink the season.

[SoxFanForsyth]

It looks like the Sox 2nd rounder will be the 44th overall.

 

Taken 44th overall in 2010 was Nick Castellanos. He is now the 38th best prospect, ahead of Bradley as ranked by Keith Law.

 

Bradley was taken 40th overall by the Sox. So there is plenty of talent left in those slots

[SoxFanForsyth]

If Lohse was a good pitcher, he'd be worth the pick and $10M. Unfortunately for him, he's not. Do you really want Brad Penny part II?

 

Putting 2 NL pitchers in this rotation would sink the season.

 

Yeah, and at least Dempster has swing and miss stuff. He posted more than a K per inning when he went to the Rangers, and 8.0/9 for the year.

 

I didn't realize how bad Lohse's peripherals were. He doesn't walk many but he struggles to K more than 6/9.

[mvp 78]

You can sell me on Dempster working out, but there's no chance that Lohse would be fine. Lohse wouldn't be an upgrade over Doubront. He's just not worth it.

 

I'm surprised Bourn is still around though. What is he hoping to make?

[Palodios]

If Lohse was a good pitcher, he'd be worth the pick and $10M. Unfortunately for him, he's not. Do you really want Brad Penny part II?

 

Putting 2 NL pitchers in this rotation would sink the season.

 

Brad Penny? Come on now, BP sucked the year before he joined the Red Sox-- His ERA was 6.32. The more appropriate comparison here would probably be Javier Vazquez.

[seabeachfred]

The old Killer Bees: Bagwell, Berkman, Biggio.

 

The new Killer Bees: Bogaerts, Bradley, Barnes. We'll see.

 

I think you left out Bryce Brentz, another new possible Killer "B". The guy is a RH hitter with good power and a cannon arm. He could turn out to be future right fielder if meddler Lucchino doesn't decide to trade him and some other prospect for a sexy veteran.

[seabeachfred]

I believe that the 2012 team was a .500 team pre-trade. The majority of the players who have been signed this offseason have replaced players of similar levels of production, with a few exceptions:

 

Victorino replaces garbage.

Ellsbury replaces garbage.

Bailey can't possibly have a worse season in 2013.

Hanrahan, Uehara and Tazawa are replacing garbage in the bullpen.

Morales and Aceves replace garbage in swing/spot starter roles.

 

The depth is also better at pretty much every position -- De La Rosa/Webster/Wilson/Lavarnway/Iglesias/Brentz/Gomez will all be waiting in AAA. Maybe Bogaertz, Bradley, Barnes will make contributions. Wright, Britton, Mortensen, Holt, Kalish aren't phenomenal options, but you might get lucky.

 

Whoa Palodios, let's not get carried away. Victorino is not replacing garbage; he could be garbage himself compared to the player he is replacing. Cody Ross hit 22 homers for us last year and drove in 81 runs. Shane will not get close to those figures. The rest I will agree with you on but not Ross. How soon some of us forget.

[Palodios]

Whoa Palodios, let's not get carried away. Victorino is not replacing garbage; he could be garbage himself compared to the player he is replacing. Cody Ross hit 22 homers for us last year and drove in 81 runs. Shane will not get close to those figures. The rest I will agree with you on but not Ross. How soon some of us forget.

 

I answered that in a followup-- I see Gomes as Ross's replacement, and Victorino replaces Sweeney/McDonald/Crawford/Byrd. Whether you're on the Victorino bandwagon or not, you have to see that as a significant upgrade:lol:

[mvp 78]

Brad Penny? Come on now, BP sucked the year before he joined the Red Sox-- His ERA was 6.32. The more appropriate comparison here would probably be Javier Vazquez.

 

And 5 out of 6 years before that it was under 4. Want to cherry pick some more stats? According to baseball reference, most similar pitchers to Lohse, Penny is #2.

[Palodios]

And 5 out of 6 years before that it was under 4. Want to cherry pick some more stats? According to baseball reference, most similar pitchers to Lohse, Penny is #2.

 

How is looking at a pitcher's previous year cherry picking?

[a700hitter]

Also, Penny had known shoulder issues.

[redsoxfan3]

It looks like the Sox 2nd rounder will be the 44th overall.

 

Taken 44th overall in 2010 was Nick Castellanos. He is now the 38th best prospect, ahead of Bradley as ranked by Keith Law.

 

Bradley was taken 40th overall by the Sox. So there is plenty of talent left in those slots

 

I do agree with you there. The 44th pick will definitely be a valuable pick, especially to give up if we would sign Lohse. I am not against signing Lohse because I think he would be a decent addition and be an improvement over Doubront, although I would rather have that 44th pick. I would rather trade for another starter than lose the draft pick compensation at this point.

[seabeachfred]

I answered that in a followup-- I see Gomes as Ross's replacement, and Victorino replaces Sweeney/McDonald/Crawford/Byrd. Whether you're on the Victorino bandwagon or not, you have to see that as a significant upgrade:lol:

 

Victorino over those four stiffs? Yes. Gomes over Ross? No can do bobaloo!!!!! I would not put Gomes in Ross' class, but you might get the opportunity to tell me I told you so if he should surprise us. Still, the lefthanded part of that platoon sucks as far as I'm concerned. Nava and Sweeney? Be serious my friend:blink::blink::blink:

[wyo-sox]

I for one was a little disappointed we did not keep Cody Ross. I think he signed a cheaper contract than what we signed Gomes for. That one made little sense to me. Cody Ross comes up with big hits in clutch games and proved he was a good fit in Boston.

[Behindenemylines]

If Lohse was a good pitcher, he'd be worth the pick and $10M. Unfortunately for him, he's not. Do you really want Brad Penny part II?

 

Putting 2 NL pitchers in this rotation would sink the season.

 

Lohse is a NL pitcher and I agree he would not fair well in the AL East.

[Bellhorn04]

I for one was a little disappointed we did not keep Cody Ross. I think he signed a cheaper contract than what we signed Gomes for. That one made little sense to me. Cody Ross comes up with big hits in clutch games and proved he was a good fit in Boston.

 

Ross got 3 years, 26 million, Gomes got 2 years, 10 million. Both overpaid but Ross even moreso, I would say. He feasted on lefties and the Green Monster last year.

[dupree]

I think Gomes should put up very similar numbers to what cody ross did for us last year.

He should do alright in left field at Fenway as far as defense goes. Im still not on board with the whole idea of only having Nava and Sweeny as backup options.

[Dojji]

I think Gomes should put up very similar numbers to what cody ross did for us last year.

He should do alright in left field at Fenway as far as defense goes. Im still not on board with the whole idea of only having Nava and Sweeny as backup options.

Combine that with a couple prospects and that's better than what a lot of teams have for an outfield. It's not nearly what we're used to though.

[dupree]

Combine that with a couple prospects and that's better than what a lot of teams have for an outfield. It's not nearly what we're used to though.

 

Definitely not an outfield of big name guys like i think a lot of people on this ssite think should be playing out in Fenway, myself included. I woulda liked to see a big name signing to patrol left field more than who was gonna play right field. Center was pretty much set with Ells when health for this year. At the start of the offseason i was all about getting big name guys who would block the big league emergence of prospects to the bigs, but now im leaning more and more everyday of seeing what the kids can do. Brentz is one that intrigues me most of all. I think Ells will get moved by mid season for a pitcher but if not i think they make a huge push to resign him in the offseason if he has a healthy productive year. I like Bradley's defense but im not big on his power #s compared to what Ells has put up on a healthy year. Left field is just a mystery for the future, is any big name prime players going to be on the market next year or is their a prospect down in the minors that could come up and hold down left for the future?

[BSN07]

While some might see Kyle Lohse as a fit for the Red Sox given their financial flexibility, it is “highly unlikely” that Red Sox will be the team to sign him, a major league source tells Rob Bradford of WEEI.com

.

He would be a train wreck in the AL imo. Also was unreasonable to think the Sox would have protected their pick all winter only to give it up for a 5-6 SP in February.

[a700hitter]

Bridge Year -- cost $170 million. Just asinine.

[BSN07]

Bridge Year -- cost $170 million. Just asinine.

 

How? They are up that high because of the short term high AAV they gave out. If you would once in your life look beyond one season you will see the Sox have an absolute ton of money available in the next few seasons and an increasing amount of roster flexibility. If they spent the money on the big ticket items they would be at the same payroll but wouldn't have the flexibility going forward. If they went total rebuild and spent considerably less you would have been complaining that they are pocketing your money.

 

Is there any situation where you wouldn't have anything to complain about?

[a700hitter]

How? They are up that high because of the short term high AAV they gave out. If you would once in your life look beyond one season you will see the Sox have an absolute ton of money available in the next few seasons and an increasing amount of roster flexibility. If they spent the money on the big ticket items they would be at the same payroll but wouldn't have the flexibility going forward. If they went total rebuild and spent considerably less you would have been complaining that they are pocketing your money.

 

Is there any situation where you wouldn't have anything to complain about?

Do you want to discuss this and we can exchange our ideas or do you want to persist in being an asshat telling me what I think and what I would think? If you you want to exchange ideas, I'm in. Otherwise, STFU.

[a700hitter]

Cafardo has a good article in today's Globe on Farrell. He noted how last spring training Valentine ran more drills stressing fundamentals and that the players resented it. On veteran infielder complained "Are we in AA?" Then the team went out and played terrible fundamental baseball. The article states that we can look forward to a "more traditional" spring training where the emphasis is on startinfg the season healthy. I am sure that it will include plenty of golf, fishing and sunbathing too. We can probably look forward to another season of substandard fundamentals, because as Cafardo points out at the end of the article:

But always remember, John: The inmates are in charge.

 

The last two years are proof of that.

[Bellhorn04]

Has a Red Sox team ever played good fundamental baseball? I can't even remember.

[jung]

The will to play the kind of baseball we want to see this team play has to come from the players or has to be shepherded by a player. Unfortunately the only guy that could do it of this group is Pedey and he is just not that sort of leader....he just is not. If anything Pedey regrets having stuck himself in the middle of the whole Youk mess. However the way he handled that just points to his inability to shoulder the load of team leader in that sense. The best we can expect from Pedey in that regard would be that his example has an impact. It just has never worked out that way with this team though. Ortiz can't and probably won't. How can a guy that does not take the field to play defense with his mates be the guy....sorry just won't happen. He can howl about this "being his clubhouse" till hell freezes over....and frankly if it was his clubhouse I don't see that he has much to be proud of.

 

I have been disappointed especially in the way baseball is being played in the AL these days. Seems like there is very little of a unified, cohesive offensive effort to be identified. They can get by with that playing each other and it really does not seem to be relevant during inter-league play. However get to something like a seven game series and it almost looked juvenile compared to the kind of unified offensive effort that the Giants put up.

[wyo-sox]

Ross got 3 years, 26 million, Gomes got 2 years, 10 million. Both overpaid but Ross even moreso, I would say. He feasted on lefties and the Green Monster last year.

 

OK, thanks. I had thought their contracts were further apart for some reason, I was wrong.

[BSN07]

Do you want to discuss this and we can exchange our ideas or do you want to persist in being an asshat telling me what I think and what I would think? If you you want to exchange ideas, I'm in. Otherwise, STFU.

 

You said it was a 170M payroll for this season was "asinine"

 

Definition of asinine:

foolish, unintelligent, or silly; stupid: It is surprising that supposedly intelligent people can make such asinine statements.

 

I explained what they have done was not unintelligent and looks to be the smartest thing to do compared tot he other avenues they could have taken. I don't see how I'm being an "asshat" just because I called you out on your typical moaning and groaning.

 

But by all means please layout your master plan of how they should have approached building the team. You might have dodged the question by playing the "your new, so I'm not answering you until you have x amount of posts" card, but I'm not new, and I'm asking you to put up or STFU.

[VA Sox Fan]

You said it was a 170M payroll for this season was "asinine"

 

Definition of asinine:

 

 

I explained what they have done was not unintelligent and looks to be the smartest thing to do compared tot he other avenues they could have taken. I don't see how I'm being an "asshat" just because I called you out on your typical moaning and groaning.

 

But by all means please layout your master plan of how they should have approached building the team. You might have dodged the question by playing the "your new, so I'm not answering you until you have x amount of posts" card, but I'm not new, and I'm asking you to put up or STFU.

 

Uh, oh.... It might be time for the king to put you on his ignore list

[a700hitter]

You said it was a 170M payroll for this season was "asinine"

 

Definition of asinine:

 

 

I explained what they have done was not unintelligent and looks to be the smartest thing to do compared tot he other avenues they could have taken. I don't see how I'm being an "asshat" just because I called you out on your typical moaning and groaning.

 

But by all means please layout your master plan of how they should have approached building the team. You might have dodged the question by playing the "your new, so I'm not answering you until you have x amount of posts" card, but I'm not new, and I'm asking you to put up or STFU.

Of course you explained that they did the smartest thing, because you are personally unimaginative, have no ideas of your own, and blindly support the FO at every turn.

 

If you had asked me what I would have done, I would have been happy to share my ideas. but what would be the point when you already know what I think and what I would think in every situation. The fact that you think so is a perfect example of being asinine.