Red Sox 2012/2013 Offseason Thread

[Dojji]

Indeed. Pretty similar story with Ryan Dempster actually.

[SCM33]

Morales is a better option than Doubront.

 

Doubront is league average to below average. He is a 3 or a 4. Before the rest of baseball figures it out, trade him and get something of value for him while he still has some. When he turns 26 and 27 (hes currently 25), and he is still league average, he will be worth nothing.

 

Morales was the only starting pitcher who showed any balls last year. He got hit by the Yankees because he was TOO aggressive. He is still very raw as a starting pitcher.

 

BTW, something that you guys probably didn't realize, right now....Franklin Morales is 26 years old. Felix Doubront is 25.

[SCM33]

Lance Berkman is still out there.

 

At 36 and coming off an injury, I wouldnt mind a flier on him. Platoon him with Gomez if Napoli doesn't sign.

[Lucienbel]

RS3, what I don't want to see and fear a little is that the front office will pull another boner and send a better reliever down to the farm "for more damn seasoning" because they have options rather than just putting the best relievers on the roster regardless of options. The first time Aceves starts with his antics he needs to be sat on or gone. Bard I think is done. You are right about Lester, Buchholz and Dempster, however. They must come through and that goes for Lackey and Doubrant too. We need to convert a potential problem into a strength.

 

I really don't have a ton of faith with Aceves. Not necessarily from a baseball perspective, but from more of a personal perspective. He has shown that he can pitch, but I really can't stand the person that's going to complain because he couldn't live up to what was expected of him. I know Bobby V was garbage, but still..... Him acting like that wasn't going to improve anything.

 

As for Bard, I'm not really sure how I feel on him. Part of me thinks he could turn it around, another part of me thinks that's it. Whichever way I lean I do realize he isn't getting any younger, and unless he turns it around soon he'll quickly turn into one of those "could have been" type relievers.

 

As for Morales, getting lit up by the Yankee's doesn't make you a bad pitcher. He has shown good stuff in the past as well as last year. I think sometimes Red Sox fans get caught up in the mentality of doing good/bad against the Yankees makes you a good or bad player. There's a lot of other teams out there, and wins are wins no matter who they're against for most of the regular season.

[a700hitter]

Lance Berkman is still out there.

 

At 36 and coming off an injury, I wouldnt mind a flier on him. Platoon him with Gomez if Napoli doesn't sign.

I like Berkman. He is a much better hitter than Napoli if he has anything left in his tank.

[Lucienbel]

I like Berkman. He is a much better hitter than Napoli if he has anything left in his tank.

 

Berkman wouldn't be the worst. He's certainly shown that he can hit when healthy. I'd also think you'd like him to be in a platoon position though. Certainly wouldn't be my number one choice, and I'm sure it's a large question mark how many games he could play. None the less, we could do worse.

[jopete19]

The Red Sox had the biggest/greatest offseason day ever!

 

 

Goodbye Melancon! You are a girl and you suck.

 

The only bad thing about this is no more this...

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1NhimRlyqpE

[RedSoxNC84]

The Red Sox had the biggest/greatest offseason day ever!

 

 

Goodbye Melancon! You are a girl and you suck.

 

The only bad thing about this is no more this...

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1NhimRlyqpE

 

YOU JUST GOT MELANCON'D!!

[seabeachfred]

I really don't have a ton of faith with Aceves. Not necessarily from a baseball perspective, but from more of a personal perspective. He has shown that he can pitch, but I really can't stand the person that's going to complain because he couldn't live up to what was expected of him. I know Bobby V was garbage, but still..... Him acting like that wasn't going to improve anything.

 

As for Bard, I'm not really sure how I feel on him. Part of me thinks he could turn it around, another part of me thinks that's it. Whichever way I lean I do realize he isn't getting any younger, and unless he turns it around soon he'll quickly turn into one of those "could have been" type relievers.

 

As for Morales, getting lit up by the Yankee's doesn't make you a bad pitcher. He has shown good stuff in the past as well as last year. I think sometimes Red Sox fans get caught up in the mentality of doing good/bad against the Yankees makes you a good or bad player. There's a lot of other teams out there, and wins are wins no matter who they're against for most of the regular season.

 

Sorry Lucien......not to me. I judge a Red Sox pitcher by how he pitches against the Yankees, the team the Red Sox want to beat more than any other ball club, the team that puts more pressure on Red Sox players than any other ball club. If a Red Sox pitcher can beat the Yankees on a consistent basis, to me he stands to become a better pitcher against other ball clubs. It is one reason why I still haven't written off Jon Lester. When Morales can beat the Yankees and pitch well against them, as Doubrant does, then I'll listen.

[a700hitter]

Sorry Lucien......not to me. I judge a Red Sox pitcher by how he pitches against the Yankees, the team the Red Sox want to beat more than any other ball club, the team that puts more pressure on Red Sox players than any other ball club. If a Red Sox pitcher can beat the Yankees on a consistent basis, to me he stands to become a better pitcher against other ball clubs. It is one reason why I still haven't written off Jon Lester. When Morales can beat the Yankees and pitch well against them, as Doubrant does, then I'll listen.

 

Morales wasnt just bad against the Yankees, he was atrocious. He gave up 8 Homers in two abbreviated starts. On the other hand, Doubront had at least two brilliant outings versus the Yanks. That shows me that he doesn't shrink in big moments. Morales comes apart at the seams when he faces a potent offense.

[SCM33]

Sorry Lucien......not to me. I judge a Red Sox pitcher by how he pitches against the Yankees, the team the Red Sox want to beat more than any other ball club, the team that puts more pressure on Red Sox players than any other ball club. If a Red Sox pitcher can beat the Yankees on a consistent basis, to me he stands to become a better pitcher against other ball clubs. It is one reason why I still haven't written off Jon Lester. When Morales can beat the Yankees and pitch well against them, as Doubrant does, then I'll listen.

 

Thats a terrible way of looking at it.

 

Curt Schilling was 7-8 with a 4.71 ERA in his career against the Yankees.

[SCM33]

Morales wasnt just bad against the Yankees, he was atrocious. He gave up 8 Homers in two abbreviated starts. On the other hand, Doubront had at least two brilliant outings versus the Yanks. That shows me that he doesn't shrink in big moments. Morales comes apart at the seams when he faces a potent offense.

 

.....and Doubront came apart at the seams when he hit 100 innings.

[a700hitter]

.....and Doubront came apart at the seams when he hit 100 innings.

True, and I am hoping that it was fatigue, but I suspect that the league was figuring him out. As for Morales, I had high hopes for him. He looked great until he faced the Yanks. Blowing up once could be considered a blip, but twice. 8 homers later and my confidence in him was pretty much gone. I'd still give the edge to Doubront. Either way, the loser of that competition would be a good depth option.

[Plumpamania]

Morales wasnt just bad against the Yankees, he was atrocious. He gave up 8 Homers in two abbreviated starts. On the other hand, Doubront had at least two brilliant outings versus the Yanks. That shows me that he doesn't shrink in big moments. Morales comes apart at the seams when he faces a potent offense.

 

Yea he just sucks all the rest of the time .

[a700hitter]

Yea he just sucks all the rest of the time .

I didn't say that. As between Doubront and Morales, I would give Doubront the decided edge.

 

Edit: I think people underestimate the magnitude of suck in giving up 8 Homers in two games. I didn't check the NL, but not a single other pitcher gave up 4 bombs in a game twice. He managed to do this in only 9 starts, so I don't think it should be minimized as some sort of blip.

[Bellhorn04]

.....and Doubront came apart at the seams when he hit 100 innings.

 

Doubront had a strong finish though. His last 4 starts were all quality starts, with a .555 OPS against.

[Lucienbel]

I'd also give Doubront the edge here, and for many reasons. He's shown he can go a full season, even if he had some decline down the stretch, which I'd guess was a fatigue thing. He definitely has the sort of stuff to pitch in the majors. If he can build some stamina and get deeper into games he'd be really good.

 

With that said, I don't think it's worth tossing Morales out the window. He's shown in the past and he's shown stuff last year that said he still could do it. Not that I want him taking that spot right out of Doubronts hands, but I don't think he should just be tossed aside either.

 

Now if they add another arm or two (and I really wish they'd try Marcum maybe) this would change a bit. Adding another arm or two to compete with Doubront wouldn't be a terrible thing though.

[seabeachfred]

Thats a terrible way of looking at it.

 

Curt Schilling was 7-8 with a 4.71 ERA in his career against the Yankees.

 

Curt Schilling??????? Come on SCM, are you freakin' kidding me? For the record, twice Schilling left a Yankee game with a lead only to have the bullpen give it up in games that resulted in win and a loss. Twice in 2005 when he was recovering from that severe angle injury that most likely shortened his career he came back early and lost twice to the Yankees, once in relief and once as a starter. For the record when he was pretty much fully recovered he pitched a three hit, eight inning one run gem against them in a 9-2 win on September 10. I know; I was at that game in YS.

 

With some better luck and better health his record against that team would not have been 7-8, and, besides, when I think of Curt I think of October 19th, 2004. You, me and everyone else on this board knows what happened on that evening. Morales couldn't pitch a game like even in his dreams.

 

Just for the record, though, perhaps a little perspective from my point of view might be enlightening for you and others who think that's a terrible way of looking at it. Before I became a convert to the Red Sox the last team I really rooted for was the Brooklyn Dodgers. Look up their record in WS against the Yankees, and then ask 700 Hitter how his Brooklyn born dad felt and most likely still feels about the Yankees. My antipathy for that team goes all the way back to 1947.

 

Nothing personal, though. Glad we're communicating again. I appreciate your passion for the Red Sox.

[BSN07]

In the wake of the Marlins' blockbuster deal with the Blue Jays, the Marlins publicly stated that they wouldn't trade Giancarlo Stanton. Assistant General Manager Dan Jennings says that the club isn't shopping the right fielder, but they will listen to all offers for him, according to Jim Bowden of SiriusXM (on Twitter).

 

Would cost a lot. But if the Sox traded Ells for a couple pieces and took on Nolasco and his 12M salary for '13 that could lower the total cost possibly. They have to check in on this.

[a700hitter]

Curt Schilling??????? Come on SCM, are you freakin' kidding me? For the record, twice Schilling left a Yankee game with a lead only to have the bullpen give it up in games that resulted in win and a loss. Twice in 2005 when he was recovering from that severe angle injury that most likely shortened his career he came back early and lost twice to the Yankees, once in relief and once as a starter. For the record when he was pretty much fully recovered he pitched a three hit, eight inning one run gem against them in a 9-2 win on September 10. I know; I was at that game in YS.

 

With some better luck and better health his record against that team would not have been 7-8, and, besides, when I think of Curt I think of October 19th, 2004. You, me and everyone else on this board knows what happened on that evening. Morales couldn't pitch a game like even in his dreams.

 

Just for the record, though, perhaps a little perspective from my point of view might be enlightening for you and others who think that's a terrible way of looking at it. Before I became a convert to the Red Sox the last team I really rooted for was the Brooklyn Dodgers. Look up their record in WS against the Yankees, and then ask 700 Hitter how his Brooklyn born dad felt and most likely still feels about the Yankees. My antipathy for that team goes all the way back to 1947.

 

Nothing personal, though. Glad we're communicating again. I appreciate your passion for the Red Sox.

If Schilling sucked so bad against the Yankees, their fans would not despise him so much. Big Schill stuck it up their asses in some very memorable and painful ways.

[BSN07]

If Schilling sucked so bad against the Yankees, their fans would not despise him so much. Big Schill stuck it up their asses in some very memorable and painful ways.

 

A lot of teams fan bases don't like Schilling, he was a great big game pitcher and stuck to many. Great article on him here from SI, http://mlb.si.com/2012/12/22/jaws-and-the-2013-hall-of-fame-ballot-curt-schilling/

[Bellhorn04]

A lot of teams fan bases don't like Schilling, he was a great big game pitcher and stuck to many. Great article on him here from SI, http://mlb.si.com/2012/12/22/jaws-and-the-2013-hall-of-fame-ballot-curt-schilling/

 

As this article suggests, Schilling will get in the Hall, and deservedly so, but will probably have to wait a few years.

[jacksonianmarch]

Schill belongs in the hall. As does Pettitte

[Dojji]

I don't think he's first ballot, but he absolutely makes the hall. He's got a borderline case even without Bloody Sock, and Bloody Sock is a borderline case all by itself. Between the two it ought to be a lock to eventually get in.

[jacksonianmarch]

I agree. He'll get in by 2016 or so

[BSN07]

I think he will get in this year because of all the "Users" that the writers are going to hold out on this ballot. It's probably the perfect ballot for him to appear on.

 

Pettitte IMO should get in to. But he will have to wait for the PED issue to be resolved(which I think it will eventually)

[Dojji]

Interesting point BSN07. Schilling is as clean as any pitcher who played in that area can be, which really is a factor to think about. That does give him both extra credibility (played "clean" in a very juiced up era and still dominated) as well as some political ballot votes based on disapproval of the doping culture. Endorse the clean players a little excessively as a way to spite the juicers a little bit more.

[BSN07]

Interesting point BSN07. Schilling is as clean as any pitcher who played in that area can be, which really is a factor to think about. That does give him both extra credibility (played "clean" in a very juiced up era and still dominated) as well as some political ballot votes based on disapproval of the doping culture. Endorse the clean players a little excessively as a way to spite the juicers a little bit more.

 

Exactly. And gives the writers the perfect way to snub Bonds and Clemens and they will probably take it.

 

The whole HOF debate is getting ridiculous anyways. All these guys should be in regardless if they used. There are admitted amphetamine users in the hall, Ruth only played against white dudes etc etc. It's the Hall of Fame, not the Hall of Records. And they should stop comparing the different era's, it's pointless. Criteria for the hall should be were you a beast among you peers for a long period of time in the ea you played in. Not if you got more hits then a guy that played in 1950.

 

Sorry for the rant haha

[a700hitter]

Red Sox Looking At Bobby Abreu

By Mark Polishuk [December 31 at 3:07pm CST]

The Red Sox have worked out Bobby Abreu in Venezuela, including putting the veteran outfielder through drills at first base, reports Rafael Tejera (WEEI.com's Alex Speier confirms it through a Major League source).* Speier notes that the workout may have been a case of "due diligence" for both Abreu and the Sox as Abreu has no professional experience as a first baseman and may not even be interested in playing the position.

 

After being released by the Angels and designated for assignment by the Dodgers in 2012, however, Abreu may have little room to argue a position change if he wants another contract with a Major League team.* Abreu hit three home runs and had a slash line of .242/.350/.342 in 257 PAs for the two Los Angeles teams last season, with the .693 OPS standing as a career-low for the 17-year veteran.

 

Abreu, 38, is a below-average defender in the outfield and wouldn't see much time at DH in Boston with David Ortiz in the fold, so first base might be his only opportunity for even semi-regular playing time as part of a platoon.* The Red Sox still have a tentative agreement with Mike Napoli though that deal has been under renegotiation for weeks due to concerns about Napoli's hip, and the Sox have also talked to free agent Adam LaRoche about filling their hole at first base.

I am not seeing the wisdom in this.

[Spitball]

I am not seeing the wisdom in this.

 

The Red Sox have worked out Bobby Abreu in Venezuela, including putting the veteran outfielder through drills at first base, reports Rafael Tejera (WEEI.com's Alex Speier confirms it through a Major League source).*

 

Does this mean they actually flew someone (or more) to Venezuela to look at him? Surely, they could have saved some bucks by merely looking at his most recent statistics.