Red Sox 2012/2013 Offseason Thread

[TutGadol]

Drew for 10 mil seems crazy. Very crazy. Best case scenario he earns about 2 WAR, and that if he stays healthy and doesn't decline much. And 2 WAR for him is a pretty optimistic prediction.

[mvp 78]

I think they are bringing these guys in to basically say to the fans, "we really do care. Look at all the $$$$ we're spending!"

 

I don't think offseason moves aside from bringing in a top of the rotation starter will really help the Sox win in the near future. If they're going to pack it in, I'd rather them give the youngs an opportunity to win a job in ST (which Ciriaco should have been given last year when he was killing it in ST).

[Bellhorn04]

Drew for 10 mil seems crazy. Very crazy. Best case scenario he earns about 2 WAR, and that if he stays healthy and doesn't decline much. And 2 WAR for him is a pretty optimistic prediction.

 

Each WAR is worth about 5 million according to FanGraphs. Not saying I agree with it but that's the formula they use.

[SoxSport]

I think they are bringing these guys in to basically say to the fans, "we really do care. Look at all the $$$$ we're spending!"

 

I don't think offseason moves aside from bringing in a top of the rotation starter will really help the Sox win in the near future. If they're going to pack it in, I'd rather them give the youngs an opportunity to win a job in ST (which Ciriaco should have been given last year when he was killing it in ST).

 

Incredible they've spent to within $9 mil of the luxury cap, and everybody is predicting a repeat of last place in AL East. I guess their spending has been very unconvincing. In their obsession for 3 year contracts, they've overpaid just about everybody--to the point where they no longer have any room to make more moves during the season. It's the same situation they were in last year when they had better players. Wow.

[Rdsxmbnt]

Incredible they've spent to within $9 mil of the luxury cap, and everybody is predicting a repeat of last place in AL East. I guess their spending has been very unconvincing. In their obsession for 3 year contracts, they've overpaid just about everybody--to the point where they no longer have any room to make more moves during the season. It's the same situation they were in last year when they had better players. Wow.

 

Pretty sure they still have a lot more than 9 mil of wiggle room. Who is making these predictions? You? Perhaps I missed it but by my count they have given out a grand total of two 3 year contracts with everyone else 2 years and under.

[jung]

I guess I keep forgetting but I think the threshold does not increase till the 2014 season...That is correct right? So this year the threshold is $178M.

 

Also we usually forget when we are making these calculations that there are some adds that are hidden in the background behind the AAV based salaries. I am not even sure we can do better than just guess at those even if we wanted to. I take it the $165m being reported in the 2013 salary thread is just the salaries and now includes Napoli and Dempster. Is that also correct Soxsport?

[Bellhorn04]

I guess I keep forgetting but I think the threshold does not increase till the 2014 season...That is correct right? So this year the threshold is $178M.

 

Also we usually forget when we are making these calculations that there are some adds that are hidden in the background behind the AAV based salaries. I am not even sure we can do better than just guess at those even if we wanted to. I take it the $165m being reported in the 2013 salary thread is just the salaries and now includes Napoli and Dempster. Is that also correct Soxsport?

 

The updated numbers I've seen, which do include all the add-ons, have us at about 168 million now or about 10 million under the cap. I'll update the numbers in the payroll thread when I get a chance.

[rjortiz]

Red Sox probably add a pitcher, and call it an offseason.

[dupree]

I would like to see a bold trade between the sox and the cubs... package a deal that would bring anthony rizzo back to the sox... i wished the AGon deal would not have involved him... but you cant blame the padres asking for him in the deal

 

Famgraphs is predicting him to hit .280+ avg 30+hrs 100 rbis

i would rather him at 1B for the next several years than napoli for three

[dupree]

2013 Rizzo Predictions from fangraphs: .283avg 33hrs 109rbi to be exact

[NZSox]

What's Soriano gonna cost?

[seabeachfred]

Any interest here?

 

Not from me there isn't. Let's be frank---Ethier can't hit lefthanders worth a damn. He is pathetic against them and it gets worse as the season wears on. He would be exposed stark naked in the southpaw rich AL East, and I'm told we're not into picking up and signing players to big contracts and the four year $85 million contract doesn't sound like chicken feed to me. Now Ethier's best friend, Dustin Pedroia, will be shouting for the Red Sox to make the trade but let me warn all of you out there now---ETHIER SHITS GREEN WHENEVER HE SEES A LEFTY. Stay away from this unless you are willing to platoon him.

[seabeachfred]

I'll say it a again. The kid comes up and plays 25 games on a dysfunctional team at the end of the year, when everybody has quit trying to win. And now everybody is quitting on him?

 

Not quite. One year of Drew probably means a year in AAA for Iglesias. That will cost them another $2 million. They are paying $12 million for Drew. For a team that has little chance to make the playoffs. It makes no difference. They could have played Ciricao at SS for peanuts. He deserved it from his showing last year.

 

You say the Red Sox could have played Ciriaco at SS for peanuts instead of signing Drew and I could see that even though the guy is not the slickest fielder in the shed, but I cannot fathom your seemingly love affair with Iglesias. Were we both watching the same guy last September? He was absolutely pathetic at the plate and he most likely convinced the brass that he would have a lot of trouble hitting ML pitching. We're not even talking about te 200 Menzoza line here; Igy hit a deplorable 118 for the team. He looked even worse at the dish than his average.

 

Now could he develop into a better hitter? Possibly, but he didn't hit very much in the minors either, and whether y ou're conceding the season or not, a lot of us want the team to win as many games as possible as we rebuild towards respectability. To let Iglesias bat no matter what and never pinch hit for such a weak hitter is just throwing games away, some of which we could win wit a key hit. I remember very painfully back in 2008 when Jason Varitek just collapsed offensively for us at the plate and Francona stubbornly refused to ever pinch hit for him. It seemed that so many times that summer with the game on the line Varitek came to the plate and failed miserably time after time after time. I counted about nine or ten games in which that happened. It cost us the AL East Title that year and home field for the playoffs. One player isn't worth that, especially such a weak hitter as Iggy.

[jacksonianmarch]

There is a 0.0% chance of bringing Rizzo back to the sox. He's young, cost controlled and will be a premium offensive talent on an otherwise weak team. He is going to be their building block around which they will arrange others. He's the kind of guy Theo approaches with a team friendly 7 yr deal around mid season and locks the kid up until 2020.

[rjortiz]

I would like to see a bold trade between the sox and the cubs... package a deal that would bring anthony rizzo back to the sox... i wished the AGon deal would not have involved him... but you cant blame the padres asking for him in the deal

 

Famgraphs is predicting him to hit .280+ avg 30+hrs 100 rbis

i would rather him at 1B for the next several years than napoli for three

 

They have zero motivation to make a trade like that.

[jung]

I for one would not let him bat "no matter what". However in the scenario you described SBF the only element of the discussion regarding Iggy was late innings in a tie game with two out. If that is the only condition, no I would not necessarily pinch hit for him there. "No matter what" is a completely different discussion. You added that later. I don't think anybody else said "No matter what". Although I did not check all of Soxsport's posts on the topic I don't think he said "no matter what" either.

[Palodios]

Not from me there isn't. Let's be frank---Ethier can't hit lefthanders worth a damn. He is pathetic against them and it gets worse as the season wears on. He would be exposed stark naked in the southpaw rich AL East, and I'm told we're not into picking up and signing players to big contracts and the four year $85 million contract doesn't sound like chicken feed to me. Now Ethier's best friend, Dustin Pedroia, will be shouting for the Red Sox to make the trade but let me warn all of you out there now---ETHIER SHITS GREEN WHENEVER HE SEES A LEFTY. Stay away from this unless you are willing to platoon him.

 

Ethier would be a monstrous liability in right field. He is simply awful defensively to begin with, so you're stuck hiding him under the monster.

 

Is he worth 85 million to platoon with Johnny Gomes? Maybe, but I certainly don't think he'd be happy with that arrangement.

[dupree]

They have zero motivation to make a trade like that.

 

Why do you say they have motivation to make a trade for a 1B like Rizzo

Given i do agree he is a guy that you could build a team around potential

the Napoli deal has dragged out to the point where an announcement of the deal falling through would surprise no one, Rizzo used to be in our system and if the AGon deal had not happened he would be our starter at first

 

Does boston have a prospect with the power numbers that Rizzo can put up coming up through the minors?

[rjortiz]

Why do you say they have motivation to make a trade for a 1B like Rizzo

Given i do agree he is a guy that you could build a team around potential

the Napoli deal has dragged out to the point where an announcement of the deal falling through would surprise no one, Rizzo used to be in our system and if the AGon deal had not happened he would be our starter at first

 

Does boston have a prospect with the power numbers that Rizzo can put up coming up through the minors?

 

Not the Sox, the Cubs.

[dupree]

Not the Sox, the Cubs.

 

Ok i agree with that... they many not have the motivation but i would like to see a deal reached

 

Does anyone know if anyone of the prospects has the upside of what rizzo has

[jacksonianmarch]

Ok i agree with that... they many not have the motivation but i would like to see a deal reached

 

Does anyone know if anyone of the prospects has the upside of what rizzo has

 

This kind of garbage with Napoli is going to make Boston an unattractive destination for free agents. This is now time #4 where the physical hasnt been bad enough to trash the contract but was concerning enough to where they decided to go back to the negotiating table. That either means the guys arent failing their physicals or the sox are using the physical as a negotiating tool after a contract has been agreed to. Traditionally, it has been, you fail the physical and the deal is null and void. The cat and mouse s*** about partially failing a physical but not really then bullying the player into a more team friendly deal will kill their reputation. Funny how they select which guys to do this to. AdGon had a messed up shoulder, but nothing was in that contract. Crawford has a wrist issue that wasnt addressed in his contract either.

[dupree]

This kind of garbage with Napoli is going to make Boston an unattractive destination for free agents. This is now time #4 where the physical hasnt been bad enough to trash the contract but was concerning enough to where they decided to go back to the negotiating table. That either means the guys arent failing their physicals or the sox are using the physical as a negotiating tool after a contract has been agreed to. Traditionally, it has been, you fail the physical and the deal is null and void. The cat and mouse s*** about partially failing a physical but not really then bullying the player into a more team friendly deal will kill their reputation. Funny how they select which guys to do this to. AdGon had a messed up shoulder, but nothing was in that contract. Crawford has a wrist issue that wasnt addressed in his contract either.

 

Agreed. This is gonna make FA not want to come to bean town also even with contractual language a player can still get around the language and go on the DL and still get paid

 

I wished they would figure something out with Napoli if not go after Swisher or LaRoche just do something the longer and longer this goes on i think the nap deal will fall thru and both swisher and laroche will be off the board so then what will the sox do

[Bellhorn04]

I wished they would figure something out with Napoli if not go after Swisher or LaRoche just do something the longer and longer this goes on i think the nap deal will fall thru and both swisher and laroche will be off the board so then what will the sox do

 

No, LaRoche is no fool...he's sitting tight because he knows the Sox could become the highest bidder for his services. LaRoche already joked that he might not sign until April 1.

[SoxSport]

Why do you say they have motivation to make a trade for a 1B like Rizzo

Given i do agree he is a guy that you could build a team around potential

the Napoli deal has dragged out to the point where an announcement of the deal falling through would surprise no one, Rizzo used to be in our system and if the AGon deal had not happened he would be our starter at first

 

Does boston have a prospect with the power numbers that Rizzo can put up coming up through the minors?

 

They have a couple of guys, Sands and Gomez, that should get a shot at 1B, but won't because of Napoli. The team talks a good talk about prospects, and drafts well. But when it comes down to it, they go out and buy veterans--plugging opportunities for young players. That's their recent history. You need an injury for a kid to be brought up.

[SoxSport]

No, LaRoche is no fool...he's sitting tight because he knows the Sox could become the highest bidder for his services. LaRoche already joked that he might not sign until April 1.

 

The Sox aren't in a position to sign anybody else unless the Napoli deal falls through. They have spent their way back to where they were pre-season last year. And on paper, don't look as good. I guess that's the biggest concern a lot of people have.

[dupree]

Im glad LaRoche is waiting soo long. I like his defense at 1Bthe and he would be a more solid addition as far as defense goes but i think napoli would have better power #s infor fenway and a lineup with LaRoche might make it a lil too lefthanded

 

Vic

Peedy

Ells

Ortiz

Middlebrooks

LaRoche

Gomes/Kalish

Salty/Ross

Drew

 

I also can see farrell sloting ells into the 3rd spot to see if he gets his power back

[BSN07]

I'm not interested in Laroche on a long term deal. If the Napoli deal falls through let someone from in house go for the spot. Gomes, Sands, Middlebrooks,(Iggy to SS and Drew to 3B, or some other 3B (Cecchini?) that allows WMB to move to 1B )Lavs or someone I'm not thinking of.

[jung]

Laroche was not looking for more than 2 or at most 3 years as I recall. LaRoche would give you a decent bat attached to a very very good glove. If the Sox are going to go youth including keeping WMB at 3rd and allowing the kids to play SS, there are going to be more ugly WMB type throws from the left side of that infield. Many of those will just bounce off of Napoli's or even Swisher's shins. Not a great confidence booster for the young guys since the problem clearly starts with the throw. LaRoche corals all of those.

[redsoxrules]

Laroche would not do well hitting in Fenway , pass

[BSN07]

Ya I don't think Laroche will hit well at fenway long term and is probably not a 30 HR threat there either.