Red Sox 2012/2013 Offseason Thread

[jacksonianmarch]

I am telling you with 100% certainty that Napoli was fielding lots of grounders and playing a ton of 1b in warmups and ST.

[seabeachfred]

How do you not take something personally when he posts things challenging the cognitive capacity of people who believe certain things? I'm not the only one who is offended by his style, and its obvious he and you don't like mine. Too bad.

 

If someone comes on here and calls up down and says anyone who doesn't see it is basically not credible or thinking straight I'm going to get offended. I'm not losing sleep over it and perhaps you intuit more into my posts than I intend but yeah, he's making a claim about a group of people of which apparently I'm one.

 

Fred and I are fine. As are you and I. However, you continually point out the personal stuff around my posts (ie "here's you taking things personally again) and ignore things like numbers and results. I posted WAR numbers there to back up my point. I think they point to a flaw in his hyperbolic argument. Instead you try to make me seem like an overly sensitive douchebag and ignore the substance of my point. It's tired and not becoming of the king of talksox or that gentle dog picture on your profile pic.

 

I like to believe we are fine Ex1. I happen to have strong opinions and deliever them. A difference may be that you might, might I said, think that Cherington knows more about the game than you do and is a better judge of talent than you are. I do NOT happen to believe that in my case. As an old war horse who coached players from the sandlot to college and semi pro baseball, and did some scouting on the side (for payed scouts) I think I am better at judging talent than Cherington is. That to me anyway is just a fact of life. I don't say that to be cocky and conceited; it is just something I am totally convinced of.

 

The test is right before Cherington. If you are Napoli where would you want to hit? Fenway or that Seattle airport? What seems to be the hold-up? One damn year---and consider this. We need this guy. After two more seasons Ortiz is gone, maybe Salty too. Nap can hit for power, play first base, catch, DH and is a great competitor. Why is Cherington playing hard ass when we don't a first baseman worthy of its name in our organization, when we badly in need of a first baseman who can help out in other areas? I have read posts on this thread that proclaim we are going to get Napoli, but I am not sure of that at all. The reason? Cherington!!!!!! By now you know I have absolutely no confidence that he has what it takes to pull the trigger on a big deal, but would be elated if somehow you and others could counter soon that "WE TOLD YOU SO".

 

Cherington simply has to get this deal done.....PERIOD!!!!!!! Anyway, I do respect you and hope we will have good relations on this board. Like you I want the Red Sox to succeed in the worst way.

[jung]

I guess I would be OK with Napoli. So far though I have just not really been able to perceive a plan that makes sense that includes Napoli, certainly not for 4 years. Suddenly the Sox would seem to be stockpiling reserve and part time catchers. We have Salty who defensively is not better than a reserve or part time catcher. Lavs who the organization seems reluctant to commit to. Ross who would seem to have been taken specifically for the reserve roll.

 

I cannot argue with the logic that given his age and the number of years he has played, if Napoli were a front line every day 1st baseman he would have been doin' that already. How much he practices there means little to me if his managers are consistently giving the everyday job more often to somebody else.

 

Now if there is one team in the entirety of MLB that will take s*** in the field for a bat...it is without question the Boston Red Sox. Maybe since 1st base is a long way from the middle of the infield, they are going to put him there and hope he hits enough to take the defensive lapses. See Mike Aviles with the exception that Aviles WAS right in the most important defensive position on the field. If that is the plan I doubt there is any chance they will offer him 4 years.

 

Maybe they will up the anti over three years enough to get it done. The one thing to remember is that if they cannot resolve the pitching issues in one off season (highly unlikely) it is not likely to matter much how much offense they are getting out of 1st base.

[seabeachfred]

Napoli at 3 years is where I would draw the line. If he choices Seattle and the 4th year they seem to be offering just move on. I not 100% sold on him as the Sox every day 1B. A strong glove at first base can save a lot of runs over the coarse of a season and I'm not sure if he is the answer.

 

Lines---this is a free agent's year. The pickings are slim and moving on is just a recipe for disaster. I also hope by a strong glove at first base you're not hinting at resigning the pathetic and rotten James Loney because he sucks worse that just sucks. First base is a hitter's position and we don't have a first base prospect anywhere in our system. So if we don't want to look at another 69-93 season we have to stop with this moving on crap. Sign the players we need because we need a first baseman with power, and a righty to boot. We need an outfielder or maybe even two. We need a starting pitcher, one at least, and we might need a shortstop since the one we have can't hit his way out of a paper bag.

 

You don't improve the team by moving on when the alternative are the likes of Repko, Carpenter, Stewart, Thomas, Valencia, Padilla and the rest of the trash Cherington stuck us with last season. We have the money now---use it wisely but use it.

[SoxSport]

Cafardo just retweeted a tweet from a "friend" of Napoli. Napoli says all the recent leaks about him are nonsense.

[Behindenemylines]

Lines---this is a free agent's year. The pickings are slim and moving on is just a recipe for disaster. I also hope by a strong glove at first base you're not hinting at resigning the pathetic and rotten James Loney because he sucks worse that just sucks. First base is a hitter's position and we don't have a first base prospect anywhere in our system. So if we don't want to look at another 69-93 season we have to stop with this moving on crap. Sign the players we need because we need a first baseman with power, and a righty to boot. We need an outfielder or maybe even two. We need a starting pitcher, one at least, and we might need a shortstop since the one we have can't hit his way out of a paper bag.

 

You don't improve the team by moving on when the alternative are the likes of Repko, Carpenter, Stewart, Thomas, Valencia, Padilla and the rest of the trash Cherington stuck us with last season. We have the money now---use it wisely but use it.

 

First Base is a power position, but a solid glove is also important at 1B. Napoli is a power hitter that can play first, but he is below average with the glove and that is why he didn't play more there with the Rangers. I'm just saying you don't want to over pay ($$$ and years) for someone that really doesn't have a strong defensive position and may be a better DH. Ortiz is kind of locked into that position for the next two years.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Napoli is more interested in Boston because of a better chance of team success. Boston is more "appealing" than Seattle. Although, the years for him is a big factor. It would not come as a surprise if he signs with Seattle if they offer four and we stay at three. A team option or mutual option for a fourth might get the job done. Jen Royle is reporting that Mike Napoli is likely to sign with the Red Sox during winter meetings, who is a friend of Mike. I like the move.

I like him because he will provide some power. Does anyone know if he will be a 1B or C primarily? I would prefer him to play 1B in a platoon role with Sands, and have him catch on occasion. I like the flexibility of him being able to play C and 1B, and provide some power. That leaves us with Ross and Napoli being on the roster for sure next year, with Lavarnway and Salty as question marks. Do we trade Salty and have Lavarnway, Ross, and Napoli or do we send Lavarnway to AAA and keep Salty to split time with Ross and have Napoli catch on occasion. I think this puts us in a decent situation. We just have to figure something out. I am assuming IF we do make this a done deal that we look to package Salty in a deal for sure, but then again I am not Ben Cherington.

 

What would it take to get Jon Niese from the Mets? The Mets need a C and they might be interested in Salty in a package deal. Niese is only 25 and had a career year last year. He had a 3.40 ERA, 1.172 WHIP, and pitched 190.1 innings. He is also under team control through 2016. If he can consistently pitch those numbers, then that would be a plus. Would Doubront and Salty be enough to get Niese, or would we have to do Salty, Doubront, and prospect(s)?

 

Where did you hear this??

 

I just read her tweet that she spoke to Napoli and that what's being reported on twitter is not true at all. Not sure if she's talking about the 4th year or that he's going to speak to the Mariners.

 

She seems like a reliable source so I'm very curious where you saw her report this.

[Behindenemylines]

The hot stove rumors all always flying around. There are things that agents leak to the media if they think it may help their client. I have learned not to believe all of these things floating around and just wait until multiple sources report that player X has signed. Maybe Napoli does want to play in Boston and is using this to get a fourth year, or maybe he does have interest in Seattle. I think we will have a better idea in two weeks after the winter meetings.

[example1]

I like to believe we are fine Ex1. I happen to have strong opinions and deliever them. A difference may be that you might, might I said, think that Cherington knows more about the game than you do and is a better judge of talent than you are. I do NOT happen to believe that in my case. As an old war horse who coached players from the sandlot to college and semi pro baseball, and did some scouting on the side (for payed scouts) I think I am better at judging talent than Cherington is. That to me anyway is just a fact of life. I don't say that to be cocky and conceited; it is just something I am totally convinced of.

 

The test is right before Cherington. If you are Napoli where would you want to hit? Fenway or that Seattle airport? What seems to be the hold-up? One damn year---and consider this. We need this guy. After two more seasons Ortiz is gone, maybe Salty too. Nap can hit for power, play first base, catch, DH and is a great competitor. Why is Cherington playing hard ass when we don't a first baseman worthy of its name in our organization, when we badly in need of a first baseman who can help out in other areas? I have read posts on this thread that proclaim we are going to get Napoli, but I am not sure of that at all. The reason? Cherington!!!!!! By now you know I have absolutely no confidence that he has what it takes to pull the trigger on a big deal, but would be elated if somehow you and others could counter soon that "WE TOLD YOU SO".

 

Cherington simply has to get this deal done.....PERIOD!!!!!!! Anyway, I do respect you and hope we will have good relations on this board. Like you I want the Red Sox to succeed in the worst way.

 

Cheers Fred. While I am suspicious of your opinion of yourself regarding baseball scouting, I appreciate your good will.

 

As for Napoli, I agree with you that the choice between Boston and Seattle seems to be an easy one to make. At the same time I think all teams are best served by having parameters in their negotiations and can see why the 4th year is concerning for the Sox. They should probably pull the trigger on that one but I wouldn't extend it beyond that... And of course this is all assuming that the monetary cost is reasonable.

[jung]

Napoli would be a nice piece but I just don't see anything here that would demand some ugly overpay. Then again I can't see any team looking at Napoli as the guy they should have to overpay for.

[Elktonnick]

The 2.6 billion and 100 million figures represent the assets that Henry's firm was managing for investors. Henry himself still has a net worth of 1.5 billion as of Sept/12 per Forbes magazine.

 

And hoiw much of that are the Red Sox and Liverpool? The point is that his assets are almost exclusively tied up in both franchises. His commodity business the original source of his wealth has closed up shop. While he is not going to be showing up in the food stamp line any time soon, his financial flexibility has disappated considerably over the past few years. The way he has managed both Liverpool and the Red Sox clearly show that.

 

I still elieve the club is being shopped.

[seabeachfred]

BEL-- what you say carried a lot of truth and I can't say that y ou are wrong on this. However, this off season is a little different since the number of desirable players available is a little modest to tell the truth. For a first baseman defense should not be undermined but personally I would rather have an offensive player there than a glove man since there are other positions for those types, including SS where we may be forced to play one of the weakest hitters ever conceived by man. Think of it this way, though. If we sign Napoli to a four year contract he will still be younger than Ortiz is right now. After two years we have our DH, a second catcher and another first baseman. He has a swing tailor made for Fenway and, face it, we need help pretty bad.

[example1]

I don't think napoli has the numbers to be a legit DH or 1b but his versatility would allow the Sox to platoon in and out of those positions and not be hurt offensively. Hell, if you have a few guys with .900 OPS as platooners you might get elite production for a huge cost savings. Perhaps the platoon/split player is a new undervalued asset.

[seabeachfred]

The other important thing to note about Napoli is that by signing him, they take a free agent catcher off the market, and increase the value of Salty/Lavs.

 

Well done Palodios; surprised I and some others didn't pick up on that. I have been concentrating on what Napoli could give us in the power and versatility department; I must have been dozing not to have noticed your aspect of his hopeful signing. Hell, look around the AL and in baseball in general. Ever see so many teams hurting at catcher? With Mike in the fold we would have four and, who knows, one of them could be used to get us some pitching if we added a prospect to the mix. I hope this is in Cherington's thinking as well.

[a700hitter]

Defensive rant much? I didn't mention anything about minor leaguers. Support my own posts without insulting others? Please. Fred is constantly insulting the intelligence of others here, but you don't see it because he's not directing it to you. No need to rush to his defense, he can handle himself.

He never attacks a single poster. If you see his posts as an attack on you personally, it is your projection, not an actual personal attack.

[a700hitter]

Defensive rant much? I didn't mention anything about minor leaguers. Support my own posts without insulting others? Please. Fred is constantly insulting the intelligence of others here, but you don't see it because he's not directing it to you. No need to rush to his defense, he can handle himself.

I realize that Fred can handle himself. You need to control yourself and stop personally attacking people and attributing intent to posters based on your skewed filter. Serious, just the facts, mam. Leave out the editorializing about posters.

[seabeachfred]

I don't think napoli has the numbers to be a legit DH or 1b but his versatility would allow the Sox to platoon in and out of those positions and not be hurt offensively. Hell, if you have a few guys with .900 OPS as platooners you might get elite production for a huge cost savings. Perhaps the platoon/split player is a new undervalued asset.

 

Palodios brought up a good point EX and I could kick myself for not thinking of it myself. Getting Napoli gives us four catchers and looking around baseball we can all see the scarcity of decent receivers with a little sock. One or two of our guys could be used in trade and , who knows, we could get a decent pitcher out of it if it results in a major trade.

 

It looks like a win-win situation to me from whichever way I look at it.

[a700hitter]

Infielder Ivan DeJesus, third baseman Danny Valencia, and righthanders David Carpenter, Sandy Rosario, and Zach Stewart were designated for assignment.

I thought Stewart projected as a middle of the rotation starter.

[bubbakeg52]

Palodios brought up a good point EX and I could kick myself for not thinking of it myself. Getting Napoli gives us four catchers and looking around baseball we can all see the scarcity of decent receivers with a little sock. One or two of our guys could be used in trade and , who knows, we could get a decent pitcher out of it if it results in a major trade.

 

It looks like a win-win situation to me from whichever way I look at it.

 

Everyone of your post seems like you hang on a limb to suffice yourself because you hate CA bud. I hope you shove your due dilgence up your ass and wank off you tuney rep. Most importantaley smile for the camera when you enter hell because you don't know Angel Pagan between your rectum

[example1]

Palodios brought up a good point EX and I could kick myself for not thinking of it myself. Getting Napoli gives us four catchers and looking around baseball we can all see the scarcity of decent receivers with a little sock. One or two of our guys could be used in trade and , who knows, we could get a decent pitcher out of it if it results in a major trade.

 

It looks like a win-win situation to me from whichever way I look at it.

 

I would think Ross and Napoli could man the position really well. If Lavarnway were moveable then any trade package would be sweetened significantly. I hope they don't move him but for a young top tier starter (prospect). A team would need to be pretty enamored with their own guy to turn down a package of Barnes, Lavarnway, and Bogaerts. Which prospect would be worth more than that? Not too many. There aren't many prospects worth that much, but there may be a few. Find the next Felix Hernandez and overspend for him.

[reYoukilis]

Speaking of catching, Ive had a couple of thoughts going around in my head. One is, how come no one talks about Mauer, isnt he a free agent? Second is why arent people giving more love to Salty? He IS the Red Sox's home run leader of 2012. He's also a switch hitter so could replace Ross according to what hand the pitcher pitches with. Yeah his defense isnt great and maybe even his pitch calling but still.

[jung]

I don't know why Salty's remarkable record of K's should be more acceptable than Granderson's in NY. Salty K's as much as Granderson does while hitting fewer home runs and is truly weak as a catcher, and as a handler of pitchers. Lavs has at least to this point been considered the better bet with the ability to replace Salty's offense with more upside potential performing the function from behind the plate.

 

Salty is more likely to become the guy used in trade unless the Sox are ready to throw in the towel on Lavs. Actually I think it is more likely the other way around with the Sox more ready to throw in the towel on Salty.

[BSN07]

Everyone of your post seems like you hang on a limb to suffice yourself because you hate CA bud. I hope you shove your due dilgence up your ass and wank off you tuney rep. Most importantaley smile for the camera when you enter hell because you don't know Angel Pagan between your rectum

 

lol seriously?

 

 

You won't last the weekend if you keep that up. Just some friendly advice if you want to stick around and be taken to be something other than a troll.

[BSN07]

Speaking of catching, Ive had a couple of thoughts going around in my head. One is, how come no one talks about Mauer, isnt he a free agent? Second is why arent people giving more love to Salty? He IS the Red Sox's home run leader of 2012. He's also a switch hitter so could replace Ross according to what hand the pitcher pitches with. Yeah his defense isnt great and maybe even his pitch calling but still.

 

Mauer is entering the 3rd year of an 8/184M deal. You must be thinking of someone else?

[jacksonianmarch]

I thought Stewart projected as a middle of the rotation starter.

 

For the Long Island Ducks

[mvp 78]

Everyone of your post seems like you hang on a limb to suffice yourself because you hate CA bud. I hope you shove your due dilgence up your ass and wank off you tuney rep. Most importantaley smile for the camera when you enter hell because you don't know Angel Pagan between your rectum

 

I don't get it. Is this supposed to be performance art?

[mvp 78]

You need to control yourself and stop personally attacking people and attributing intent to posters based on your skewed filter.

[rjortiz]

For the Long Island Ducks

 

I'd say the Long Island Blackbirds.

[example1]

So a few sites have listed the Sox as players for Nick Swisher. He's a guy who would make a lot of sense for them. Versatile, solid clubhouse presence, probably affordable compared to Hamilton. Also I would think that adding some hard nosed guys like him, Ross and Gomes could go a good distance toward rebuilding.

[jacksonianmarch]

Swisher is a guy renowned for his clubhouse presence but really known for his post-season struggles.