Red Sox 2012/2013 Offseason Thread

[SeanJohn93]

It would be intriguing to see what Hosmer and Gordon could do with the Green Monster. However, I would not want to give up signifigant prospects for them

[SoxFanForsyth]

It would be intriguing to see what Hosmer and Gordon could do with the Green Monster. However, I would not want to give up signifigant prospects for them

 

I would certainly give up significant prospects for Gordon and Butler. They are very underrated players. OBP's in the .370's. Gordon has 20 HR power, Butler has 30+ HR power at Fenway. Both are .300 hitters, or right around it.

 

I wouldn't give up Bogaerts or Bradley, but I'd give up Webster, De La Rosa, Cecchini, Barnes, etc, along with MLB talent like Doubront. Not all of those guys, but if the Royals wanted Cecchini, Webster, Doubront, and Kalish for Gordon and Butler, I'd likely strike on that deal.

[rjortiz]

The Royals are still laughing at you.

[BSN07]

The Royals are still laughing at you.

 

Doubront + Kalish + 2 upper tier prospects for Gordon+ Butler is not a bad offer considering Gordon's deal is 13:$9M, 14:$10M, 15:$12.5M, 16:$12.5M player option and Butler's is 13:$8M, 14:$8M, 15:$12.5M club option ($1M buyout). If the Sox are taking on all the $ it's a solid offer.

[rjortiz]

Doubront + Kalish + 2 upper tier prospects for Gordon+ Butler is not a bad offer considering Gordon's deal is 13:$9M, 14:$10M, 15:$12.5M, 16:$12.5M player option and Butler's is 13:$8M, 14:$8M, 15:$12.5M club option ($1M buyout). If the Sox are taking on all the $ it's a solid offer.

 

Those are cheap deals for the caliber of talent that Gordon and Butler are. The Red Sox aren't going to add two elite players for that package.

[rjortiz]

Gordon is six win player two years in a row, and Butler is a three with a Silver Slugger to his name.

[User Name]

It would be intriguing to see what Hosmer and Gordon could do with the Green Monster. However, I would not want to give up signifigant prospects for them

 

Gordon's a pull-happy lefty. He wouldn't do much with the monster.

[Spitball]

Gordon's a pull-happy lefty. He wouldn't do much with the monster.

 

Hosmer and Gordon are both lefties.

 

I doubt the Red Sox and Royals match up well. The Royals are wanting starting pitching...as are the Red Sox.

[SoxSport]

I would absolutely give up Webster for Alex Gordon. He's a stud.

 

Also, Hosmer and Wil Myers would be extremely intriguing for 1B.

 

I could certainly see the Sox pulling a deal for Gordon and Hosmer.

 

EDIT: Actually I think the Royals would be much more willing to part with Butler than Hosmer, and I think Butler would be an excellent fit at Fenway.

 

Hosmer was a bust last year. Gordon better. KC would want top prospects for these guys, and it isn't worth it. I wouldn't trade any of their top prospect pitchers. Pitching is their weakness.

[jung]

I think the Sox are going to do what they can with money instead of prospects cause they have money to spend. The more I think about it the more I see them trying to make a serious bid for Hamilton for one.

[Spitball]

I think the Sox are going to do what they can with money instead of prospects cause they have money to spend. The more I think about it the more I see them trying to make a serious bid for Hamilton for one.

 

I also think Hamilton might be a target. Many think he will fail in a big market, but I don't know that will happen. He has beaten the odds before.

 

The Rays left him unprotected when the Cubs chose him in the rule 5 draft. The Reds traded for him, and he had to be kept on their roster despite not having played in some time. He beat the odds and played well. The Reds had doubts and traded him to the Rangers. He has been a superior talent since.

 

I know he is a gamble. He has problems. The Reds and Rangers both took chances on him when common sense said he was a drug addict and likely to fall back into his addictions. He has been a successful big leaguer for five years now, and I think he is worth a gamble.

[example1]

I also think Hamilton might be a target. Many think he will fail in a big market, but I don't know that will happen. He has beaten the odds before.

 

The Rays left him unprotected when the Cubs chose him in the rule 5 draft. The Reds traded for him, and he had to be kept on their roster despite not having played in some time. He beat the odds and played well. The Reds had doubts and traded him to the Rangers. He has been a superior talent since.

 

I know he is a gamble. He has problems. The Reds and Rangers both took chances on him when common sense said he was a drug addict and likely to fall back into his addictions. He has been a successful big leaguer for five years now, and I think he is worth a gamble.

 

I suspect we all agree with this, it's just the cost and the length that make the difference. Hamilton is one of those players who commands respect when he's on the field. He's not Miguel Cabrera, but he's capable of being as productive and when he's hot he's unlike anyone in baseball.

[example1]

It is interesting that there isn't a lot of rumor or speculation about Justin Upton. He would give the lineup some nice flexability and is potentially a star in this league. He is exceptionally strong and, at 24, is off to a really nice career. You can't get Harper or Trout, but Upton was a former #1 pick and he has shown why. His numbers aren't noticeably worse than Robinson Cano at the same age.

 

With Upton playing RF for the foreseeable future the Sox could cement a position of a very good player in his prime years. He would cost a lot of talent, but the Sox have enough resources to deal even a Barnes and De La Rosa plus without it hurting them long term. With Upton you get better now and start putting together the team for the next run.

 

In all seriousness they could trade for Upton and aim for Josh Hamilton and still have enough for a pitcher like Sanchez or Edwin Jackson.

 

2014 would have an OF of Hamilton, Bradley Jr and Upton.

 

Bradley Jr

Pedroia

Ortiz

Hamilton

Upton

Middlebrooks

Lavarnway

1B

Iglesias

 

That's a young lineup with a great young core of players and some payroll flexability when Ortiz leaves and Hamilton declines. Meanwhile the team creates some excitement and would be poised to turn things around in the next few years.

[BSN07]

It is interesting that there isn't a lot of rumor or speculation about Justin Upton. He would give the lineup some nice flexability and is potentially a star in this league. He is exceptionally strong and, at 24, is off to a really nice career. You can't get Harper or Trout, but Upton was a former #1 pick and he has shown why. His numbers aren't noticeably worse than Robinson Cano at the same age.

 

With Upton playing RF for the foreseeable future the Sox could cement a position of a very good player in his prime years. He would cost a lot of talent, but the Sox have enough resources to deal even a Barnes and De La Rosa plus without it hurting them long term. With Upton you get better now and start putting together the team for the next run.

 

In all seriousness they could trade for Upton and aim for Josh Hamilton and still have enough for a pitcher like Sanchez or Edwin Jackson.

 

2014 would have an OF of Hamilton, Bradley Jr and Upton.

 

Bradley Jr

Pedroia

Ortiz

Hamilton

Upton

Middlebrooks

Lavarnway

1B

Iglesias

 

That's a young lineup with a great young core of players and some payroll flexability when Ortiz leaves and Hamilton declines. Meanwhile the team creates some excitement and would be poised to turn things around in the next few years.

 

I think we have all given up on Upton actually being available. Towers is doing his same old song and dance. He's dangling to see if someone blows him away.

[jung]

One thing I don't think we will be seeing this off season is the Sox 'blowing somebody away" in a trade situation.

[jacksonianmarch]

I think we have all given up on Upton actually being available. Towers is doing his same old song and dance. He's dangling to see if someone blows him away.

 

He should do that. Upton is a supreme talent coming off a bad yr. he shouldn't be selling low

[mvp 78]

One thing I don't think we will be seeing this off season is the Sox 'blowing somebody away" in a trade situation.

 

And why should they? If they were a WS contender and needed one piece, you make one of those trades. As a 69 win team, there is little reason to go balls out for someone not named Felix Hernandez.

[BSN07]

He should do that. Upton is a supreme talent coming off a bad yr. he shouldn't be selling low

 

I don't disagree with him doing that. He should. My statement was meant more to express that Upton being a viable option for the Sox right now doesn't seem likely.

[a700hitter]

I don't know if Hamilton will be pursued by the Sox, but I'd rather get Stanton in a trade. He'd cost a bundle in prospects, but he's the type of guy who is really worth it. I still maintain that the number 1 priority should be pitching. That is what they need to get the team headed in the right direction.

[Dojji]

I don't think Giancarlo Stanton is available for ANY price right now.

[BSN07]

I don't think Giancarlo Stanton is available for ANY price right now.

 

It's not likely but I on't think it's impossible. Stanton is going to have to o his part to force it. Not sure he has the leverage. Then it's going to take some combination of high end prospect talent and ML ready controllable talent. It might help if the Sox take on Nolasco(11.5M next season) as well for financial motivation on the Marlins behalf.

 

 

 

 

Stanton(490,000) + Nolasco(11.5M) for Kalish+Doubront+Cecchini+1 OF and P prospect

 

Kalish can start in the OF, Doubront is probably a mid rotation SP in the NL with upside, Cecchini is a good prospect but is buried by Middlebrooks/Bogaerts. All that plus two good prospects to groom seems to be to be a reasonable offer and one That doesn't destroy the Sox farm system. They could also get a 3rd team involved with Ellsbury going to the 3rd team and the Marlins receiving something else.

[User Name]

Stanton(490,000) + Nolasco(11.5M) for Kalish+Doubront+Cecchini+1 OF and P prospect

 

Kalish can start in the OF, Doubront is probably a mid rotation SP in the NL with upside, Cecchini is a good prospect but is buried by Middlebrooks/Bogaerts. All that plus two good prospects to groom seems to be to be a reasonable offer and one That doesn't destroy the Sox farm system. They could also get a 3rd team involved with Ellsbury going to the 3rd team and the Marlins receiving something else.

 

Both of these ideas get you laughed at and the phone hung up on you.

 

To even get the Marlins listening, the first name they'd need to hear is Bogaerts, then a pitcher like Barnes, and go from there.

[Dojji]

It's not likely but I on't think it's impossible.

 

I can. The Marlins would be insane to trade Stanton before he gets expensive. The only reason they traded Hanley is that he both got expensive and tailed off in his performance. I expect the same process with Stanton -- as long as he is productive and cheap, he's a marlin.

 

I get sick of hearing everyone's phantom deals for someone else's cheap young stud that they will never, ever, EVER trade. Happens every year and every year it's just as stupid. The remaining 28 teams in the league do not exist for the sole purpose of being talent farms for the Boston Red Sox.

 

If you need get your offseason kicks by lusting for some small market's big name, focus on Billy Butler of the Royals. That's a much more attainable goal. And by "much more obtainable" I mean "will still cost us Bogaerts or Middlebrooks, but isn't astronomically absurd to even contemplate." Butler is an adequate 1B defensively, only DHing for KC because Hosmer is better. And that swing in Fenway would be a terrifying thing. If you want someone who can help us beat CC Sabathia aod David Price, and actually has some shot f being in a Red Sox uniform, then go ring Dayton Moore's phone.

[BSN07]

Both of these ideas get you laughed at and the phone hung up on you.

 

To even get the Marlins listening, the first name they'd need to hear is Bogaerts, then a pitcher like Barnes, and go from there.

 

Your probably right. I tried to construct a package without Bogaerts. You caught me

[a700hitter]

I can. The Marlins would be insane to trade Stanton before he gets expensive. The only reason they traded Hanley is that he both got expensive and tailed off in his performance. I expect the same process with Stanton -- as long as he is productive and cheap, he's a marlin.

 

I get sick of hearing everyone's phantom deals for someone else's cheap young stud that they will never, ever, EVER trade. Happens every year and every year it's just as stupid. The remaining 28 teams in the league do not exist for the sole purpose of being talent farms for the Boston Red Sox.

 

If you need get your offseason kicks by lusting for some small market's big name, focus on Billy Butler of the Royals. That's a much more attainable goal. Butler is an adequate 1B defensively, only DHing for KC because Hosmer is better. And that swing in Fenway would be a terrifying thing. If you want someone who can help us beat CC Sabathia aod David Price, and actually has some shot f being in a Red Sox uniform, then go ring Dayton Moore's phone.

God, what a Hot Stove grouch.:thumbdown

[BSN07]

I can. The Marlins would be insane to trade Stanton before he gets expensive. The only reason they traded Hanley is that he both got expensive and tailed off in his performance. I expect the same process with Stanton -- as long as he is productive and cheap, he's a marlin.

 

I get sick of hearing everyone's phantom deals for someone else's cheap young stud that they will never, ever, EVER trade. Happens every year and every year it's just as stupid. The remaining 28 teams in the league do not exist for the sole purpose of being talent farms for the Boston Red Sox.

 

If you need get your offseason kicks by lusting for some small market's big name, focus on Billy Butler of the Royals. That's a much more attainable goal. And by "much more obtainable" I mean "will still cost us Bogaerts or Middlebrooks, but isn't astronomically absurd to even contemplate." Butler is an adequate 1B defensively, only DHing for KC because Hosmer is better. And that swing in Fenway would be a terrifying thing. If you want someone who can help us beat CC Sabathia aod David Price, and actually has some shot f being in a Red Sox uniform, then go ring Dayton Moore's phone.

 

The whole conversation started by saying Mike Stanton would have to force his way out of Miami. I don't expect the team to openly shop him. But if you don't think they will listen about a trade involving him that includes dumping another 25% of the payroll then your kidding yourself. They have absolutely s*** on the fan base there. No one is coming to watch that team even if Stanton is part of the team. If they can dump more salary, get a disgruntled employee out of town while getting back ML cost controlled talent plus prospects they will consider it. Maybe the players I had mentioned going the other way don't fit, but I still remain convinced at the right price he could be had.

 

And if there is ANY small market team to dream about them trading their talent away to my particular team, it's the Marlins. Every other team is a distant 2nd.

 

Bogaerts is really as close as it gets to untouchable for me. There are very few players I would be comfortable seeing them trade him for. Butler is not one of them. I think they can get Butler without him. If Moore insists upon having him then pass.

[rjortiz]

It's not likely but I on't think it's impossible. Stanton is going to have to o his part to force it. Not sure he has the leverage. Then it's going to take some combination of high end prospect talent and ML ready controllable talent. It might help if the Sox take on Nolasco(11.5M next season) as well for financial motivation on the Marlins behalf.

 

 

 

 

Stanton(490,000) + Nolasco(11.5M) for Kalish+Doubront+Cecchini+1 OF and P prospect

 

Kalish can start in the OF, Doubront is probably a mid rotation SP in the NL with upside, Cecchini is a good prospect but is buried by Middlebrooks/Bogaerts. All that plus two good prospects to groom seems to be to be a reasonable offer and one That doesn't destroy the Sox farm system. They could also get a 3rd team involved with Ellsbury going to the 3rd team and the Marlins receiving something else.

 

Middlebrooks would be involved in any deal for Stanton.

[Dojji]

The whole conversation started by saying Mike Stanton would have to force his way out of Miami. I don't expect the team to openly shop him. But if you don't think they will listen about a trade involving him that includes dumping another 25% of the payroll then your kidding yourself. They have absolutely s*** on the fan base there. No one is coming to watch that team even if Stanton is part of the team. If they can dump more salary, get a disgruntled employee out of town while getting back ML cost controlled talent plus prospects they will consider it. Maybe the players I had mentioned going the other way don't fit, but I still remain convinced at the right price he could be had.

 

This is absurd. I think that Stanton would have to murder a Marlins staffer to fall so far out of favor that they'd listen to offers on him. The Marlins are pretty much hanging their entire franchise on this guy's future to help them fill their stadium. If a single baseball player in the entire major or minor leagues is not available to be acquired, it's Giancarlo Stanton. Used to be King Felix Hernandez, and while it's still ludicrous to contemplate a trade in that direction, it's less so than a deal for Stanton.

 

I mean think about it rationally. If Stanton were a Boston Red Sox, would YOU trade that away? Not in any deal that wouldn't bankrupt the receiving team!

 

And if there is ANY small market team to dream about them trading their talent away to my particular team, it's the Marlins. Every other team is a distant 2nd.

 

We haven't done a deal with the Marlins since 2005 for a reason. They might trade away talent, but they demand big league ready top prospects in return, and that's exactly what we're short on.

 

Bogaerts is really as close as it gets to untouchable for me. There are very few players I would be comfortable seeing them trade him for. Butler is not one of them. I think they can get Butler without him. If Moore insists upon having him then pass.

 

Now imagine Bogaerts debuted this year instead of playing in AAA, and had hit 20 HR's, then followed it up the next 2 years by hitting 30 HR's. And you have Giancarlo Stanton. Tell me you'd ever consider trading that. Yes, the fact that it's the Marlins puts a small dent in the absolutely ludicrous ridiculousness of the idea, but not enough to actually make it anything but absurd.

[BSN07]

This is absurd. I think that Stanton would have to murder a Marlins staffer to fall so far out of favor that they'd listen to offers on him. The Marlins are pretty much hanging their entire franchise on this guy's future to help them fill their stadium. If a single baseball player in the entire major or minor leagues is not available to be acquired, it's Giancarlo Stanton. Used to be King Felix Hernandez, and while it's still ludicrous to contemplate a trade in that direction, it's less so than a deal for Stanton..

 

They don't care about filling the stadium. That's the whole point. Your looking at the Marlins like they are an ordinary logically thinking team. They are anything but.

 

And no the don't want to trade him. Who in their right mind would want to trade him? I'm talking about a scenario in which he doesn't want to be there, an the Marlins cash in on him and dump another 12M in payroll in the process. Is it likely? Of course not? Is it something to consider and pass the time with? Why not?

[bubbakeg52]

I wouldn't mind the Red Sox taking Asdrubel's contract off of the tribe

Raunado and Doubront