Red Sox 2012/2013 Offseason Thread

[BSN07]

If Carl Crawford could be traded within a week after TJ surgery, anyone can be traded. I didn't say that Reyes would be easy to trade. That's your filter at work again. I said that he would be easier to trade than Crawford because he plays SS. I stand by that.

 

The only reason LA took Crawford and Beckett is because they got the Agon. The Sox did not want to part with Agon but it was the only way to get out from under the other contracts. I'm in no hurry to end up back in that spot.

[rjortiz]

He is still correct, even if you add what you just said.

[BSN07]

He is still correct, even if you add what you just said.

 

Oh I know he's right. Anything can happen. I was just explaining what it actually took to facilitate that trade.It wasn't just Crawford straight up. They had to give up one of the top 1B in the league signed to probably one of the friendliest big money 1B contracts in the league.

 

Moving Reyes on his own without eating a big chunk of money or adding other talent to the package will be extremely hard to pull off. Again IMO it was smart to pass.

[a700hitter]

Oh I know he's right. Anything can happen. I was just explaining what it actually took to facilitate that trade.It wasn't just Crawford straight up. They had to give up one of the top 1B in the league signed to probably one of the friendliest big money 1B contracts in the league.

 

Moving Reyes on his own without eating a big chunk of money or adding other talent to the package will be extremely hard to pull off. Again IMO it was smart to pass.

You are right about me being right, but you have little basis for the highlighted statement.

[jung]

I don't care what the Jays will look like in 4 years either. I don't think the Jays are that bound up about 2016 or 2017 at this point. However I do think they believe they have a legit shot at going all the way in 2013. This is exactly the way many teams believe they have to play their hand of cards and I can't argue that it is right or wrong for them. I think I could rationalize what they are doing. This is a risky deal that at the end of the day, may well push them over the top.

 

That deal would have been just as risky for anybody but in the case of the Sox it would have been harder to see the reward side of the deal. It would not have been the kind of deal that I would have considered as pushing the Sox over the top. They just have to many other holes to fill. It might.....MIGHT have at least resolved the pitching...that is if Lester comes back and Lackey has the kind of first year out of TJ that is hard to expect. Maybe it would have taken some of the pressure off of Buch to pitch for 30 starts and 200 innings for example. If they had gotten both pitchers, Felix would likely be traded cause he is out of options and as has been discussed here many times, can't come out of the pen.

 

For all the players and money and what have you, if Johnson fails, that deal will be a bust for the Jays.

 

Also, in a more general sense at some point it just takes to many deals to think in terms of going from the basement to the penthouse because the law of averages is against all of those deals or players that you bring in working out. That is where the Sox are. They can strive for legitimacy in 2013. They can work to be competitive for a WC spot. Taking risk to go beyond that in one off season pushes the risk:reward ratio off the charts. Then you are left with the wreckage having never really gained the competitive position you had hoped for in the first place.

[jung]

As for Agons contract....it will not be team friendly unless his HR swing comes back. $21M defensive studs at first base that hit singles and doubles are not $21M player by a long shot.

 

I just don't know what we think is going on in baseball but unless you can hit HR's as an everyday ballplayer, long term contracts that reach up over $20M are all a joke....all a consequence of teams reaching and hoping that this is the last player they need to go all the way. Hopefully we have turned the corner and will see some sanity come back and an end to paying $20+ per in long term deals for guys that are either aging and making money with the legs or can't get the ball over the fence for whatever reason. Paying that kind of player $20M in a 2 or possibly 3 year deal is one thing. Paying it for 7 is nuts.

 

You may have noticed that AGons was already wearing out his welcome in LA at the end of last year, hitting HR's at an even lesser rate than he was hitting them here.

[BSN07]

You are right about me being right, but you have little basis for the highlighted statement.

 

Well ya because it's my personal opinion. I'm not naive enough to believe moving a 35 year old SS known for only his speed who makes 22M a season is going to be a hop skip and a jump.

 

And to top it all off, your banking on Ben to be able to pull that miraculous trade off. The guy you have absolutely no faith in

 

Classic, you haven't changed one bit

[a700hitter]

Well ya because it's my personal opinion. I'm not naive enough to believe moving a 35 year old SS known for only his speed who makes 22M a season is going to be a hop skip and a jump.

 

And to top it all off, your banking on Ben to be able to pull that miraculous trade off. The guy you have absolutely no faith in

 

Classic, you haven't changed one bit

Why would I expect Ben to pull off the trade? He's on the Blue Jays. The Blue Jay GM would have to move him. As I said before, a SS did not make the top 4 on my wish list for the Red Sox. Try to keep up with the conversation.

 

BTW you may not be naive, but you are either misinformed or you are being deceptive. It should be very easy to move Reyes at age 35 after 2018, because his contract will be over at 2017 with a $4 million buyout in 2018.

[SoxSport]

Moving Reyes on his own without eating a big chunk of money or adding other talent to the package will be extremely hard to pull off. Again IMO it was smart to pass.

 

Reyes has a bad contract which is backloaded. He's going to get $22 mil each of his last 3 years. He isn't a good choice for the Red Sox, since they won't use his stolen base abilities, which is part of his salary. Plus he's a prime DL guy. They are better off taking a good, patient look at Iggy, who they know is strong defensively.

 

The player they could have used was Johnson. But I don't think they do the deal that Toronto made.

[SoxSport]

I was just reading that Cherington expects the Sox to be among the highest payrolls in 2013. I think he's got a few deals he's working on that are going to blow us away.

 

I'd love to see Greinke signed along with a trade for Choo and Masterson.

Sign Napoli as 1B/C

Trade Ellsbury + a prospect or 2 for Andrus

Trade Salty away and let Lavs/Ross/Napoli split catching duties

Try to bolster the pen

 

 

http://espn.go.com/boston/mlb/story/_/id/8635216/boston-red-sox-gm-team-one-larger-payrolls

 

Waiting for Ben to pull the string is like waiting for Doc Rivers to play Darko.

[SoxSport]

Why would I expect Ben to pull off the trade? He's on the Blue Jays. The Blue Jay GM would have to move him. As I said before, a SS did not make the top 4 on my wish list for the Red Sox. Try to keep up with the conversation.

 

BTW you may not be naive, but you are either misinformed or you are being deceptive. It should be very easy to move Reyes at age 35 after 2018, because his contract will be over at 2017 with a $4 million buyout in 2018.

 

I don't think they do the deal Toronto made. They were considering something of less scope, as Ben mentioned.

 

He did, however, say that he expected the Sox would be among the highest salary teams before the end of pre-season. To do that, they would have to sign some big tickets. And the biggest ticket out there is Hamilton. He would clearly have the biggest impact.

[Bellhorn04]

Blue Jays have signed Melky Cabrera - 2 years, total $16 million.

[a700hitter]

Blue Jays have signed Melky Cabrera - 2 years, total $16 million.

And they put more distance between us.

[rjortiz]

Looks like punting the AL East in 2013 is the route we're taking.

[BSN07]

Let's see what a PED-less Melky can do first.

 

That said it's a decent sign for Toronto as he could at least be a serviceable 4th OF for a couple seasons.

[a700hitter]

And this is still the lead story on the Red Sox:

 

Red Sox interviewing Fletcher for hitting coach

I expect there will be deals in place two weeks from tomorrow.

[Station 13]

Well looks like our owners are mailing it in for 2013. To even sniff the 2nd WC they need to get a premium bat to replace Gonzalez (Hamilton). 2 more above average bat in the OF (Ross/Hairston). and spend on a starter. That's a long laundry list.

[a700hitter]

Well looks like our owners are mailing it in for 2013. To even sniff the 2nd WC they need to get a premium bat to replace Gonzalez (Hamilton). 2 more above average bat in the OF (Ross/Hairston). and spend on a starter. That's a long laundry list.

I remain hopeful that the Sox will make moves, although the Blue Jays are really making things more difficult in the AL East.

[jung]

His numbers really spiked the last two years. I think he goes back to what he was before the 2011 season. His deal is only two years. That would seem to still be a bit of an overpay. However I agree...the Jays are all in for 2013 and that makes this deal work for them.

[Bellhorn04]

I remain hopeful that the Sox will make moves, although the Blue Jays are really making things more difficult in the AL East.

 

Can't expect the Yankees and Orioles to sit still either.

[a700hitter]

His numbers really spiked the last two years. I think he goes back to what he was before the 2011 season. His deal is only two years. That would seem to still be a bit of an overpay. However I agree...the Jays are all in for 2013 and that makes this deal work for them.

I don't think it would be possible for him to be less productive for this 2 year contract than Mike Cameron was on his 2 year deal with the Red Sox.

[BSN07]

I keep reading how furious Stanton is in Miami, and although team officials have said they aren't trading him(I'm sorry I just can't take anything they say at face value) but would anyone else be on board for trying to overwhelm Miami and bring in Stanton?

 

The cost is going to be BIG. Like 3 top 15's and another high upside that may not be ranked high yet(this is just a guesstimate on my behalf). But I think he's the type of player they can build around for a long time.

[kapsis21]

I keep reading how furious Stanton is in Miami, and although team officials have said they aren't trading him(I'm sorry I just can't take anything they say at face value) but would anyone else be on board for trying to overwhelm Miami and bring in Stanton?

 

The cost is going to be BIG.Like 3 top 15's and another high upside that may not be ranked high yet(this is just a guesstimate on my behalf). But I think he's the type of player they can build around for a long time.

 

yep cant see why not if he is not willing to play there anymore!

Barnes Bogaerts Felix Cechini and anybody they demand except Middlebrooks and Bradley i say

[Laser Show]

I keep reading how furious Stanton is in Miami, and although team officials have said they aren't trading him(I'm sorry I just can't take anything they say at face value) but would anyone else be on board for trying to overwhelm Miami and bring in Stanton?

 

The cost is going to be BIG. Like 3 top 15's and another high upside that may not be ranked high yet(this is just a guesstimate on my behalf). But I think he's the type of player they can build around for a long time.

 

He's a guy I'd be willing to send Bogaerts, Barnes, AND Bradley for, along with another prospect of their choice. He's what, 23? That type of talent doesn't come around very often.

 

Also, the Blue Jays just signed Melky.

[a700hitter]

He's a guy I'd be willing to send Bogaerts, Barnes, AND Bradley for, along with another prospect of their choice. He's what, 23? That type of talent doesn't come around very often.

 

Also, the Blue Jays just signed Melky.

Stanton could knock down the Green Monster.

[a700hitter]

The Red Sox are next in our 2013 Arbitration Eligibles series. Matt Swartz's salary projections are below.

 

First time: Scott Atchison ($800K)

Second time: Andrew Bailey ($3.9MM), Alfredo Aceves ($2.6MM), Daniel Bard ($1.6MM), Andrew Miller ($1.4MM), Franklin Morales ($1.4MM)

Third time: Jacoby Ellsbury ($8.1MM), Jarrod Saltalamacchia ($3.9MM), Craig Breslow ($2.4MM), Ryan Sweeney ($1.8MM), Rich Hill ($1.1MM)

 

Read more at http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/#5OgKlY4JPpKHHlv2.99

I might offer arb to only Ellsbury and Salty who I would trade.

[BSN07]

Stanton could knock down the Green Monster.

 

Finally a player we agree on. Even if it's improbable we get him

 

He doesn't have much leverage for a trade. I can't see him holding out. But if the SOx will take on Nolasco and Morrisons contracts as well, then maybe they can find some kind of common ground.

[jung]

Cabrera would have to find a way to generate negative stats to do worse than Cameron. Although you can actually generate negative sabre stats.

[jung]

One thing I am really beginning to wonder about is the number of guys that really made improvements in their offensive numbers after the 2010 season, in 2011 and 2012. Since we know newer, harder to trace, PED's that the league may not be as well prepared to test for have been making the rounds of the sports world generally, I am starting to wonder if there is a link between what is a two year stretch of remarkably different numbers for some guys and PED use.

 

It it were me, and I was inclined to that sort of thing, I would use them until I had a big contract under my belt and then discontinue usage at that point. Why risk being caught when your bug guaranteed contract is in place. Pick it up again when my contract came up again.

[example1]

You are right about me being right, but you have little basis for the highlighted statement.

 

So you are saying the opposite? The opposite is that it would be easy to pull off, you said earlier that wasn't what you were saying.

 

Usually when a team is in the position of trying to move a contract that is s***** they are a) not doing well and they need to pay a lot of money or talent to make the money go away. The Sox have plenty of examples of that.

 

With new LT thresholds and significant penalties the margin for those types of deals is razor thin. Nobody should fault the Sox for not spending more than they are comfortable spending on a guy they might have to pay more to get rid of in 3-4 years. We will see how it looks in a few years. I wouldn't be shocked if the Jays are stuck not being able to sign a good #5 pitcher or key bullpen pieces at some point dow the road. We will see.