Red Sox 2012/2013 Offseason Thread

[mvp 78]

I don't care if they're a last place team as long as they are finally developing real talent and building their organization. Like I've said before, build a team that can compete for a WS in 2015. Short term fixes are part of the reason they are in this mess.

[mvp 78]

I'd rather the chance at 4-5 WS than just a big splash for 1.

[BSN07]

Mike Stanton is all sorts of pissed off about this. I hope he demands a trade, that is one guys the Marlins can have anyone in the system for. Hell offer to pay Miami's payroll the next couple seasons as a bonus. Shouldn't be more then 20-30M

[Orange Juiced]

Mike Stanton is all sorts of pissed off about this. I hope he demands a trade, that is one guys the Marlins can have anyone in the system for. Hell offer to pay Miami's payroll the next couple seasons as a bonus. Shouldn't be more then 20-30M

 

Offer them this deal:

 

Sox give: Ranaudo, one of Webster/DeLaRosa/Barnes, Brentz, Cecchini, and, say, Morales

Marlins give: Stanton, Nolasco, Sanchez

 

The Sox take the last big contract off the Marlins' hands, and Nolasco should help Boston. They also get a 28-year old 1b that was bad this past year and fell out of favor with Florida, but he makes peanuts and in 2010 and 2011 he put up 108 and 113 ops+ numbers, so it's possible he could be a useful piece for Boston. And, of course, they get Stanton, the prize.

 

But the Marlins get five significant pieces in return.

[RedSoxfanforlife305]

Offer them this deal:

 

Sox give: Ranaudo, one of Webster/DeLaRosa/Barnes, Brentz, Cecchini, and, say, Morales

Marlins give: Stanton, Nolasco, Sanchez

 

The Sox take the last big contract off the Marlins' hands, and Nolasco should help Boston. They also get a 28-year old 1b that was bad this past year and fell out of favor with Florida, but he makes peanuts and in 2010 and 2011 he put up 108 and 113 ops+ numbers, so it's possible he could be a useful piece for Boston. And, of course, they get Stanton, the prize.

 

But the Marlins get five significant pieces in return.

 

If you're talking about Anibal, he's already gone.

[User Name]

I don't care if they're a last place team as long as they are finally developing real talent and building their organization. Like I've said before, build a team that can compete for a WS in 2015. Short term fixes are part of the reason they are in this mess.

 

Stop making sense. The whiners with the inflated sense of entitlement hate it when you make sense.

[a700hitter]

I don't disagree that we are waiting. I just think that not every big move or acquisition of marquee players leads to the team being significantly better. You're right about waiting for the smart acquisitions... we might have been still waiting for those if the Sox gave up the farm or majority of their payroll for Reyes, Buehrle and Johnson.

In a year or two, if it doesn't work out for Toronto, Reyes and Buehrle will still have enough value to bring back prospects in a trade. I wouldn't lament the loss of the prospects for those guys.

[a700hitter]

I'd rather the chance at 4-5 WS than just a big splash for 1.

I'd be happy with a return to respectability. Remaining competitive and playing meaningful games through the end of August is not aiming too high.

[example1]

In a year or two, if it doesn't work out for Toronto, Reyes and Buehrle will still have enough value to bring back prospects in a trade. I wouldn't lament the loss of the prospects for those guys.

 

First of all, they won't bring back the same kinds of prospects when older and less talented. More importantly, the cycle of moving prospects for established players is what got the Red Sox into a position of virtually no depth in the first place. With Kelly and Rizzo right now they could still have had Adrian Gonzalez if they were more patient.

 

Josh Johnson is a FA after next season. If he lights it up maybe he will be back on the market. Reyes is very expensive for a 3 WAR player. He's dynamic and exciting but even with the Sox good payroll his cost would look prohibitive after they have signed a few guys who truly deserve 20+ a year.

 

I don't disagree with the frustration that the sox are being conservative. I just think guys like Bogaerts are unmoveable unless a tremendous player were available. Stanton would be one of those guys.

[Palodios]

Toronto didn't trade any can't-miss prospects. It would have been the equivalent of trading Salty, Iglesias and Brentz, or something along those lines.

[Orange Juiced]

If you're talking about Anibal, he's already gone.

 

Gaby, not Anibal. Hence my comment, "They also get a 28-year old 1b that was bad this past year and fell out of favor with Florida, but he makes peanuts and in 2010 and 2011 he put up 108 and 113 ops+ numbers, so it's possible he could be a useful piece for Boston."

[rjortiz]

Gaby Sanchez plays for the Pirates.

[a700hitter]

First of all, they won't bring back the same kinds of prospects when older and less talented. More importantly, the cycle of moving prospects for established players is what got the Red Sox into a position of virtually no depth in the first place. With Kelly and Rizzo right now they could still have had Adrian Gonzalez if they were more patient.

 

Josh Johnson is a FA after next season. If he lights it up maybe he will be back on the market. Reyes is very expensive for a 3 WAR player. He's dynamic and exciting but even with the Sox good payroll his cost would look prohibitive after they have signed a few guys who truly deserve 20+ a year.

 

I don't disagree with the frustration that the sox are being conservative. I just think guys like Bogaerts are unmoveable unless a tremendous player were available. Stanton would be one of those guys.

The Jays didn't part with can't miss blue chip guys. In a year or two when Reyes can still play and he'll have much less on his contract, he'll still net prospects like that in return. As for Buehrle, yes he will be older, but productive lefties can usually net something in the way of prospects.

 

To call the Red Sox approach conservative is to assume they have done something. This is the second off season in a row where their biggest need is starting pitching and they still have not made a single rotation acquisition. The off season has just begun, but the fact is that Cherries has done nothing with regard to pitching since he took the helm.

[Orange Juiced]

Gaby Sanchez plays for the Pirates.

 

Whoops, my bad. I was looking at the Marlins' baseball-reference page and they still have him listed there. Ok, scratch him off the list then!!

[User Name]

Toronto didn't trade any can't-miss prospects. It would have been the equivalent of trading Salty, Iglesias and Brentz, or something along those lines.

 

And taking back two huge back-loaded contracts, getting yet another batch of injury-prone players and bloating payroll. Exactly what the Red Sox need right now.

[User Name]

The Jays didn't part with can't miss blue chip guys. In a year or two when Reyes can still play and he'll have much less on his contract, he'll still net prospects like that in return. As for Buehrle, yes he will be older, but productive lefties can usually net something in the way of prospects.

 

To call the Red Sox approach conservative is to assume they have done something. This is the second off season in a row where their biggest need is starting pitching and they still have not made a single rotation acquisition. The off season has just begun, but the fact is that Cherries has done nothing with regard to pitching since he took the helm.

 

Too many ifs, which is ironic coming from the guy who hates "ifs" on his team.

[Spitball]

I think the Jays could very well regret taking on both Buhrle and Reyes. One is a soft tossed getting softer, and the other is often injured.

[a700hitter]

I think the Jays could very well regret taking on both Buhrle and Reyes. One is a soft tossed getting softer, and the other is often injured.

You could look at it that way, or you could look at Buerhle as a guy that has always been a soft thrower, but who has been a model of consistency and dependability for about 10 years. You could also look at Reyes as one of the top talents in the game who plays a premier position who has averaged 150 games played since he became a starting SS with the exception of his disastrous 2009 injury marred season.

[Orange Juiced]

You could look at it that way, or you could look at Buerhle as a guy that has always been a soft thrower, but who has been a model of consistency and dependability for about 10 years. You could also look at Reyes as one of the top talents in the game who plays a premier position who has averaged 150 games played since he became a starting SS with the exception of his disastrous 2009 injury marred season.

 

Reyes played 133 games in 2010 and 126 in 2011. In each of those seasons he missed about a fifth of the season.

 

But let's be real: he would have been an incredible addition to the Red Sox. The guy is a big-time baseball player, and yes, he played 160 games this past season.

 

And I agree with your take on Buehrle. Soft tosser, sure. Incredibly consistent and solid? Absolutely. ERA is always in the mid to high 3's. Always gives you 200+ innings. Just a really good, consistent pitcher. Not an ace, but a guy you definitely want to have have on your staff.

[a700hitter]

Reyes played 133 games in 2010 and 126 in 2011. In each of those seasons he missed about a fifth of the season.

 

But let's be real: he would have been an incredible addition to the Red Sox. The guy is a big-time baseball player, and yes, he played 160 games this past season.

 

And I agree with your take on Buehrle. Soft tosser, sure. Incredibly consistent and solid? Absolutely. ERA is always in the mid to high 3's. Always gives you 200+ innings. Just a really good, consistent pitcher. Not an ace, but a guy you definitely want to have have on your staff.

The Blue Jays got a leg up on us. There is no denying that. They improved their team. All the conjecture about how Reyes' or Buehrle's contracts will look on the back end is just Sox fan whining. The Jays got better and we have 3 catchers and we're in the hunt for a new minor league batting coach and a first base coach.

[iortiz]

Toronto didn't trade any can't-miss prospects. It would have been the equivalent of trading Salty, Iglesias and Brentz, or something along those lines.

Yup.

 

And they got Bonifacio too.... Probably one of the most underrated players in the MLB.

 

Unless Ben makes something... we will finish in the last place... again!

[iortiz]

The Blue Jays got a leg up on us. There is no denying that. They improved their team. All the conjecture about how Reyes' or Buehrle's contracts will look on the back end is just Sox fan whining. The Jays got better and we have 3 catchers and we're in the hunt for a new minor league batting coach and a first base coach.

 

Right now....Toronto is a legit contender team in order to i the division or at least run for a WC spot. Period.

 

We? Right now? A 5 year in a row mediocre team if we go like this.

[iortiz]

I think the Jays could very well regret taking on both Buhrle and Reyes. One is a soft tossed getting softer, and the other is often injured.

 

C'mon man, Buehrle is a very nice pitcher. At this point if he were with us and as the rotation is right now he would be our #1 as simple as that.

[BSN07]

Miami Marlins 2012 = Blue Jays 2013

 

Toronto just took on the core of a 69 win team and added it to their current group which talent wise are very similar to what Miami entered the season with. A health Bautista is comparable to Stanton, and Sanchez and Nolasco is probably a better combo then Romero and Morrow.

 

I actually thinks this blows up and AA will be out of a job in Toronto this season or next.

[iortiz]

The Blue Jays got a leg up on us. There is no denying that. They improved their team. All the conjecture about how Reyes' or Buehrle's contracts will look on the back end is just Sox fan whining. The Jays got better and we have 3 catchers and we're in the hunt for a new minor league batting coach and a first base coach.

 

The same old last offseason movie.:thumbdown

[BSN07]

C'mon man, Buehrle is a very nice pitcher. At this point if he were with us and as the rotation is right now he would be our #1 as simple as that.

 

That just shows how bad Boston's rotation is, not how good Mark B. is. I wanted him last year, but not at the deal he got but on a 2 or 3 year deal. This whole thing could look good next season and the season after, those last few years on some of those contracts are going to be awful. In the end I'm glad the Sox didn't waste resources on this.

[iortiz]

Miami Marlins 2012 = Blue Jays 2013

 

Toronto just took on the core of a 69 win team and added it to their current group which talent wise are very similar to what Miami entered the season with. A health Bautista is comparable to Stanton, and Sanchez and Nolasco is probably a better combo then Romero and Morrow.

 

I actually thinks this blows up and AA will be out of a job in Toronto this season or next.

They'll bounce back IMO; they have the tools. The talent is there. They won't be in a Ozzy atmosphere and in a party-tme city anymore. Toronto will be a very dangerous team.

[rjortiz]

I don't see the Jays stopping here. If they wind up with LaRoche, they'll be favorites in the East.

[iortiz]

That just shows how bad Boston's rotation is, not how good Mark B. is. I wanted him last year, but not at the deal he got but on a 2 or 3 year deal. This whole thing could look good next season and the season after, those last few years on some of those contracts are going to be awful. In the end I'm glad the Sox didn't waste resources on this.

 

I'm not saying that Buehrle is an ace or something close.

 

You just neeed two pitchers. An ace (hard to get at this point. at least a J. Johnson type IDK) and a durable and solid guy like Mark Buehrle. That's it.

[rjortiz]

Miami Marlins 2012 = Blue Jays 2013

 

Toronto just took on the core of a 69 win team and added it to their current group which talent wise are very similar to what Miami entered the season with. A health Bautista is comparable to Stanton, and Sanchez and Nolasco is probably a better combo then Romero and Morrow.

 

I actually thinks this blows up and AA will be out of a job in Toronto this season or next.

 

They didn't stink because of those three.