Is Buchholz an Ace?

[SoxFanForsyth]

Something crazy that I just noticed.

 

Remember when Buchholz had a 9.09 ERA on May 6th? Well, he's now leading our SP in ERA (outside of Morales, who has a 3.06 ERA in 6 starts, but nah he belongs in the bullpen). Buch's 4.24 ERA is very impressive given where he started.

[Station 13]

De facto ace? He would be your go to in game 1 of every series at this moment.

 

Would like him to make all 34 starts next year and not get hurt or bombed 10 starts before turning it around.

[Dojji]

I don't think we need to see more consistency. I think we need to see durability. An ace needs to put up 200 innings in a season. He is yet to do that' date=' and he will not do it this season. Until he does it, he's not an ace.[/quote']

 

hat's where I stand right now. He's an ace like Josh Johnson is an ace. As in, not, but if he could only stay on the field all year, he could be.

[jung]

I just don't know why it matters frankly. He is an Ace....he is not an Ace....He is an Ace here in Boston....this team is going nowhere. He is the best starting pitcher right now on a team that is going nowhere and that will see significant changes in its rotation next year or will continue to go nowhere.

 

While being able to either trade for a true 1 that can be a true 1 for a contending team or getting a true 1 via FA will not be easy, that by itself will completely change the profile of this rotation. They might not even be able to accomplish this task by the way.

 

Beckett should be gone with the Sox just hoping somebody pays part of his salary. Lester will likely be down in the 3 hole behind Buch if Lester is here at all. Player X will hopefully be the 1 and the backend is Lackey, Felix, Frank, Cook or who knows who with one of those guys the 3 if Lester is not here.

 

While the season was over games ago it officially ended regardless of what the record says when we heard that crack of the ball hitting WMB's wrist last night.

[3rdManOut]

Yeah that really really sucked the big one last night. Didn't we just get WMB back from the disabled list and now this happens. Anyway I just hope Buccholz can keep it up. Um...it would also help if our bats were hot as well but thats for another thread.

[Bellhorn04]

Another solid outing tonight. 11-3 and ERA creeping ever closer to below 4!

[jung]

Wish Buch was getting one of these starts against NY. There are so many games left with them he is bound to get one eventually and at this point it does not matter when it comes...I just want to see him pitch against NY.

[3rdManOut]

Yeah Im right there with you on that one Jung. Very happy we won with him on the mound. However I am not looking forward to the NY series with the next bunch of guys we got on the mound.

[jung]

At least by pitching him in this last game in Baltimore, they got to rest the pen which V has to handle very carefully at this point.

[SCM33]

No.

 

A "Ace" is sure thing. A "Ace" is consistent. A "Ace" is reliable.

 

He is anything but those things. He is a incredibly talented pitcher that has more ups and downs than an engine piston.

[Thunder]

When he gives up 3 runs in the first two innings, his team picks him up. They wouldn't do that for any other pitcher, except for maybe Doubront. I think Buch's an ace.

[mvp 78]

How do the first two sentences have anything to do with your conclusion that he's an ace?

[resdubwhite]

The term ace has been one thats jinxed players on this team for the past 3 to 4 years.

 

 

so no.

He's not an ace.

[Bellhorn04]

No.

 

A "Ace" is sure thing. A "Ace" is consistent. A "Ace" is reliable.

 

He is anything but those things. He is a incredibly talented pitcher that has more ups and downs than an engine piston.

 

No-there are no sure things. Two of the AL pitchers we think of as aces, Verlander and Sabathia, have postseason ERA's of 5.57 and 4.81.

 

Pedro was probably our best pitcher ever, and as we all know, in his last few years with us he regularly lost against the Yankees.

[SoxSport]

Buchholz is showing there is a very fine line between good and bad. It could be confidence, attitude, conditioning or mechanics. Any one of these will turn a good pitcher into a bad one quickly. Staying sharp is a challenge in itself.

[3rdManOut]

When he gives up 3 runs in the first two innings' date=' his team picks him up. They wouldn't do that for any other pitcher, except for maybe Doubront. I think Buch's an ace.[/quote']

 

Thats a very very good point. I was just thinking something like that the other day. Do you think that says something about this team maybe either picking favorites or just the fact that Buccholz is the only one picking up his game so the team trys harder with him on the mound?

[kapsis21]

Buchholz the only guy consistently holding the fort for the redsox..

[3rdManOut]

He is the only guy we have thats close to an ace on this team right now. At this point I will take what I can get out of him for as long as we can.

[kapsis21]

He is the only guy we have thats close to an ace on this team right now. At this point I will take what I can get out of him for as long as we can.

 

and everyone else needs to follow suit. follow him not Beckett.

 

i heard the interview from Tito on ESPN last week when he said follow Beckett to everyone 4 years ago.. seems like Lester did and he is paying for it..

Lester and Beckett sorta have the same mentality now when you see them pitch.. i hate that fact.

[jung]

There is a significant difference in the actual performance on the mound if you look. Buch tends to give up early runs (if at all) because he leaves A pitch in a bad spot or gives up A walk because he looses it for A batter and that guy works his way around the bases. Even when he is up he is rarely up and right down main street. Virtually every other starter on the Sox staff throws meatball after meatball up there once they start going down that road and gives up runs in bunches as a result. It is a no win situation for all of them. V can't remove guys that are throwing early meatballs in the game because he can't afford the wear on the pen. Yet, you get the feeling at times that they will be lucky to not be down by double digits by the 5th inning.

 

So of the guys that started the season in the rotation and the guys there now, I would say that what Buch enjoys from the players is a level of confidence that they WILL still be in the game by the 5th and 6th innings as opposed to MIGHT still be in the game by then. That is certainly true for Beckett and Lester as it takes them whole innings at least to come around once they start throwing meatballs. Once Cook starts to get the ball up in the zone there appears no returning and he is on such a fine line that the upper half of the knee is up in the zone for him. Felix just finally ran out of gas as he approached his innings limit for the year and once he started to give up runs, there was really no turning back the tide. Morales is just to young at this point though he shows great promise and Bard has had an entire career as a project if you want to be honest about it.

 

Other than Buch the entire starting rotation has been a fail this year, not just Lester and Beckett, mainly because they started the season with a rotation full of question marks and pitchers with a known time line that would run out before the season would run out. Their answers to those questions were dice and Cook and I guess Morales. That was not a plan that had a chance.

 

Even if they get a solid 1 for this rotation, in the near term they will be hoping that Felix and Frank continue to progress, that Lester comes back (if he is still here) and will be hoping Lackey has something post TJ. Getting a solid one is the best thing for this staff especially with the young arms but even that is not a guarantee. However, a solid 1 and 2 and taking a chance on the rest is still a better bet than a bunch of maybe 2's that pitch like 3, 4 and 5.

[Bellhorn04]

jung, I don't think Lester is going anywhere. This offseason they have to unload Beckett. Then they will have Lackey back, who might be another guy they end up trying to unload.

[jung]

I don't think Lester is going anywhere either Bell and I don't think they should try to move Lester. The rotation is such a failure, who knows what they will do past trying to unload Beckett.

 

I don't think there will be any concerted effort to move Lester. However if a deal for a legit 1 requires that Lester be part of a package, then for the right guy, I would not be opposed to that. I would prefer they do it another way but you just don't know.

[NEsportsnation]

Can you imagine how much worse we would be doing if he stayed as bad as he was at the beginning of the season? Wewould have a horrible Beckett, Lester and Buccholz. I'm just happy he was able to turn it ariund this year

[Orange Juiced]

One idea is that you trade Beckett and a prospect (B-level) for Josh Johnson. That assumes, of course, that Beckett would sign off on the deal (10/5 guy and all). Johnson is a potential ace, and is a few years younger. Both have injury histories. Johnson makes less, but that's why the Sox would have to throw in a pretty good prospect. Johnson/Lester/Buchholz is a nice 1-2-3.

[Behindenemylines]

A pitcher is not an ace in my book until they do it in the plyoffs. Its the guy you wouldn't hesitate giving the ball to in a game 7. Pedro, Schill, and Beckett in 2007 are the last aces the Sox have had.

[jacksonianmarch]

Josh Johnson might have an injury history, but he will ring back a haul if dealt. It won't be a s*** prospect and Beckett

[Orange Juiced]

Josh Johnson might have an injury history, but he will ring back a haul if dealt. It won't be a s*** prospect and Beckett

 

Who ever suggested that? I suggested a pretty good prospect and Beckett. Might take more than that, but nobody suggested a crappy prospect.

[jacksonianmarch]

A b level prospect plus a guy you couldn't give away?

[Orange Juiced]

A b level prospect plus a guy you couldn't give away?

 

A "b" level prospect isn't a s*** prospect. It's a good prospect. Not a top-3 or top-5, but not what you described either.

 

Like I said, it might not be enough to get it done, but it's certainly not as you say.

[jacksonianmarch]

It's not even f***ing close. The sox would have to PAY someone to take Beckett. And the marlins have already asked for a f***ing haul for Johnson. You're gonna have to start with Barnes and Bradley