June 1, 2012: Red Sox @ Blue Jays

[evilhand]

That is going to force us to sustain it and the only way to do that will be if 1' date='2 and 3 in the rotation pitch with more consistency.[/quote']

 

I think we're starting to see that. Beckett has gone 7 or more in five straight games with a 2.20 ERA in that span. Clay is having his second straight strong start and has had his good change up in both games. The last two times out he's looked a lot more like the guy he was in 2010. Lester still needs to figure it out, but I wouldn't say that the 1-3 aren't showing any consistency yet.

 

One more good start from Clay and it's really just Lester we're talking about.

[mvp 78]

Looking at the box score, did I miss Robert Coello time?

[Bellhorn04]

Valentine wins that one.

[FredLynn]

Got away with it. Great outing by CB. Very encouraging; certainly good for his confidence.

[Bellhorn04]

Looking at the box score' date=' did I miss Robert Coello time?[/quote']

 

Those were good times for us, weren't they?

[TutGadol]

His cutter is all over the place, he got lucky not to allow more runs. Great start overall though.

[mvp 78]

ONE baserunner Bobby V...you left him in one batter too long.

 

Nope

[FredLynn]

Valentine wins that one.

 

How many games does that make that he won for the team that Francona would have lost?

[TutGadol]

If punto got on base safely the world would explode. I'm just hoping Puntoing isn't contagious.

[mvp 78]

Those were good times for us' date=' weren't they?[/quote']

 

It was the best of times, it was the blurst of times.

[KCBRUIN]

Even when he does something good Punto is a Punta

[SoxFanForsyth]

Well done, Johan!

[FredLynn]

PINTO is so bad that even when he gets a base hit he isn't on base.

[jung]

Please, two good starts even two great starts in a row do not an Ace make when those two starts are surrounded by such mediocrity.

 

These guys at the top of our rotation have a long way to go to prove they can get it done. Not saying they can't prove it but they have not to date. 4 and 5 in this rotation has absolutely saved our bacon as between them they have not had more than one disappointing start...that by Bard. However, it is very very unusual to have your 4 and 5 be the models of consistency for your rotation. Hard to imagine they can keep that up. More power to them if they can but they are the stars of this rotation to date, while not being Aces.

 

While this is a great start for Buch not more than two weeks ago this entire board was ready to send him down to work out his s***, rightfully so I might add. So it is a bit early to be calling anything Buch does Ace-like just yet.

[Bellhorn04]

Poor Punto...it must be depressing seeing a buck ten next to your name. He's normally a .240 hitter.

[TutGadol]

Nava is on fire.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Gonzo going yard here.

[Bellhorn04]

Nava is on fire.

 

Really. Can't wait to see his updated stats after this game. It might be a while before he's pumping gas after all.

[evilhand]

Please, two good starts even two great starts in a row do not an Ace make when those two starts are surrounded by such mediocrity.

 

These guys at the top of our rotation have a long way to go to prove they can get it done. Not saying they can't prove it but they have not to date. 4 and 5 in this rotation has absolutely saved our bacon as between them they have not had more than one disappointing start...that by Bard. However, it is very very unusual to have your 4 and 5 be the models of consistency for your rotation. Hard to imagine they can keep that up. More power to them if they can but they are the stars of this rotation to date, while not being Aces.

 

While this is a great start for Buch not more than two weeks ago this entire board was ready to send him down to work out his s***, rightfully so I might add. So it is a bit early to be calling anything Buch does Ace-like just yet.

 

If they didn't have track records proving they were capable of pitching at a high level consistently, then Beckett's five games and Clay's two wouldn't mean much. But both guys have done it and both guys are looking like the versions of themselves that *have* done it in their recent starts.

 

I think it's silly to suggest Beckett hasn't straightened himself out already or that Clay isn't really close to proving the same.

[redsoxbeatz]

4-5 with 3 doubles. Wow!! Nava..

 

 

If gonzo would just catch fuego!! But him & nava are 7-10

[SoxFanForsyth]

Please, two good starts even two great starts in a row do not an Ace make when those two starts are surrounded by such mediocrity.

 

These guys at the top of our rotation have a long way to go to prove they can get it done. Not saying they can't prove it but they have not to date. 4 and 5 in this rotation has absolutely saved our bacon as between them they have not had more than one disappointing start...that by Bard. However, it is very very unusual to have your 4 and 5 be the models of consistency for your rotation. Hard to imagine they can keep that up. More power to them if they can but they are the stars of this rotation to date, while not being Aces.

 

While this is a great start for Buch not more than two weeks ago this entire board was ready to send him down to work out his s***, rightfully so I might add. So it is a bit early to be calling anything Buch does Ace-like just yet.

 

Christ man. You're not listening to me.

 

You qualified the 2 good starts as being good "for a #3". All I said was that they are 2 good starts even for an ace. It's not like 7 IP/2 ER is a mediocre start for an ace. That's still an excellent start, regardless of a pitchers position in the rotation.

[FredLynn]

If they didn't have track records proving they were capable of pitching at a high level consistently, then Beckett's five games and Clay's two wouldn't mean much. But both guys have done it and both guys are looking like the versions of themselves that *have* done it in their recent starts.

 

I think it's silly to suggest Beckett hasn't straightened himself out already or that Clay isn't really close to proving the same.

 

Buchholz has had just one full season of excellence with the team. IMO he still has to prove that he can do that again before he earns respect as a SP. He has potential, but has proven nothing.

[jung]

I think it's silly to suggest Beckett hasn't straightened himself out already or that Clay isn't really close to proving the same.

 

So sounds like you are ready to call that last start by Beckett a good start. If so your expectations for what you should get from a 2 on a contending team are far lower than mine. Not to mention that Lester has pitched so poorly that some folks on this board want to call Beckett our 1.

 

Beckett did not control the other team at any time during the course of that game, a team that has been slumping and did not leave the game with his team leading a game that his team eventually lost. Sorry but that is not a good start...not terrible, maybe not even bad but certainly not good.

[Station 13]

Why Atchison?

[evilhand]

Buchholz has had just one full season of excellence with the team. IMO he still has to prove that he can do that again before he earns respect as a SP. He has potential' date=' but has proven nothing.[/quote']

 

As a starting pitcher or as an ace? He has a long way to go before I'd talk about him as an ace, but he's proven himself as a starter. He's already had a better season than 90% of pitchers will ever have. He had a strong 2011 before getting hurt, too.

 

I think it's unbelievably harsh to say he hasn't proven anything.

[TutGadol]

Nava's defense drastically improved since 2010.

 

Now let's get Davis and I'll be off to sleep.

[FredLynn]

As a starting pitcher or as an ace? He has a long way to go before I'd talk about him as an ace, but he's proven himself as a starter. He's already had a better season than 90% of pitchers will ever have. He had a strong 2011 before getting hurt, too.

 

I think it's unbelievably harsh to say he hasn't proven anything.

 

I grade harshly. I am talking about as a SP; that year happened to be VERY good, though a bit low in terms of number of innings. I think he has proven something: that he has potential. He is not like Beckett or Lester who, despite their troubles, have proven themselves to be at least adequate for many years. Buchholz has not done that yet.

[evilhand]

So sounds like you are ready to call that last start by Beckett a good start. If so your expectations for what you should get from a 2 on a contending team are far lower than mine. Not to mention that Lester has pitched so poorly that some folks on this board want to call Beckett our 1.

 

Beckett did not control the other team at any time during the course of that game, a team that has been slumping and did not leave the game with his team leading a game that his team eventually lost. Sorry but that is not a good start...not terrible, maybe not even bad but certainly not good.

 

Every night? Sure that's not good enough. Once in five starts while being dominant in the other 4? That's exactly what an ace does. No pitcher in the history of the game has ever had a season where they dominated every single start. Even Pedro in 99 had a few mediocre starts and one stinker.

 

Beckett has pitched like an ace for the last 5 games. The last start was average, but that happens to the best pitchers.

[TutGadol]

Nice win. The team played well all around.

[Bellhorn04]

Atchison with the GAUDY 0.89 ERA.