5/2 WMB vs AAA's

[Bellhorn04]

Bard needs to be paired up with Shoppach, not Salty. Bard has a career 4.70 ERA with Salty catching him, and a 1.62 K to BB ratio. He had a 1.79 ERA pitching to Varitek, with a 4.75 K to BB ratio. His one game with Shoppach was his best, 7 innings, 6 K's, 1 BB.

[BornToRun]

We are second to last in the AL in pitching and last in the ALE in ranking. Only the Twins, the worst team in baseball, has pitching worse than we do-and its not much worse than ours is (0.22 rpg). Even the ROYALS have better pitching than we do. Significantly better (0.77rpg), and they are the THIRD worst pitching team in the AL.

Whats the reason for all the optimism? I just don't see it, not for the short term. Long term, yes. We could be very very good in a year or two if the FO plays its cards right. Not this year though.

 

You ever hear of a small sample size?

[FredLynn]

You ever hear of a small sample size?

 

I understand that completely and realize that we are just 24 games into the season. Unfortunately, a "small sample size" is all we have to work with that is relevant right now. Last year's statistics are much less relevant than what the players are doing right now. The alternative to using the only sample size we have is to guess, and I prefer to use the stats that ARE available.

[a700hitter]

I understand that completely and realize that we are just 24 games into the season. Unfortunately' date=' a "small sample size" is all we have to work with that is relevant right now. Last year's statistics are much less relevant than what the players are doing right now. The alternative to using the only sample size we have is to guess, and I prefer to use the stats that ARE available.[/quote']The statistics in the small sample size are consistent with the talent level on our staff. Two of our starters are wet behind the ears and our bullpen is unsettled and not very talented. I would be wary of the small sample size if it indicated that our bullpen was the worst in baseball. The stats here are consistent with what we should be able to see for ourselves.

[BornToRun]

That SSS dictates that the orioles have the best pitching in the league. We have to take what we are seeing and compare it to what we've seen in the past and we have to look at what the expectations were. We know that bard and doubront had potential in the rotation and they're showing that they can pitch so knowing what we've seen from them so far and what weve seen before we can make a hypothesis that they will pitch well this season and have a good chance of being correct. The orioles had no signs coming in of being a top staff and nothing pointed to the possibility that they would finish 1st in the division so we can project that with the way that team is built and with the current competition they face that their current run won't be sustained. We have to look past what we've seen so far. With most observations being able to aid an optimistic view point in my opinion I think we can go from both the numbers and the expectations that this team will normalize into a top contender in the American league.

[SoxFanForsyth]

The statistics in the small sample size are consistent with the talent level on our staff. Two of our starters are wet behind the ears and our bullpen is unsettled and not very talented. I would be wary of the small sample size if it indicated that our bullpen was the worst in baseball. The stats here are consistent with what we should be able to see for ourselves.

 

The small sample size puts a pretty big amount of weight on two games in which the pitching allowed 15 runs and 18 runs (NYY and TEX).

 

Because it's such a small sample, those numbers make the pitching staff look distorted and worse than what it is.

 

Say what you want about this pitching staff, but they are not going to throw to a 5.45 ERA all season.

 

If the Sox held the Rangers to 8 runs and the Yankees to 7 runs (ultimately shaving 15 runs off their runs allowed), it would drop their ERA by almost 70 points.

 

Thats why it's a small sample size. One or two bad outings affect the stats entirely too much.

[a700hitter]

The small sample size puts a pretty big amount of weight on two games in which the pitching allowed 15 runs and 18 runs (NYY and TEX).

 

Because it's such a small sample, those numbers make the pitching staff look distorted and worse than what it is.

 

Say what you want about this pitching staff, but they are not going to throw to a 5.45 ERA all season.

 

If the Sox held the Rangers to 8 runs and the Yankees to 7 runs (ultimately shaving 15 runs off their runs allowed), it would drop their ERA by almost 70 points.

 

Thats why it's a small sample size. One or two bad outings affect the stats entirely too much.

They will not throw to a 5.45 ERA, but I do think that the bull pen as currently constituted is a bottom half pen if they don't bring in help.

[SoxFanForsyth]

They will not throw to a 5.45 ERA' date=' but I do think that the bull pen as currently constituted is a bottom half pen if they don't bring in help.[/quote']

 

As currently constituted? Sure.

 

But you have to think - This isn't the bullpen we're going to have for the rest of the year.

 

First off, DiceK is coming back in about 1.5 months. At that point, Bard will likely be at 80-85 IP. You bump him to the bullpen for the remainder of the year so that he has a gradual inning build up. So mid-June, you've got Bard back in the bullpen.

 

Then comes July - you get Bailey back. Now you've got Morales - Aceves - Bard - Bailey for the entire 2nd half of the season, as well as Crawford and Ellsbury back on the defensive side.

 

Still not good enough? That's fine. You've got Alex Wilson and Mark Melancon down in AAA. It's extremely reasonable to bet that 1 of those 2 will be able to come up and make an impact at the MLB level.

 

So now, it's the ASB, and your bullpen is Bailey - Bard - Aceves - Morales - Melancon/Wilson - Hill - Albers.

 

Still don't like it? Go make a move for Matt Thornton. Guy throws absolute gas and consistently K's 9-10/9.

 

Now all of a sudden this bullpen is a strength and you've got a rotation of Lester Beckett Buchholz Doubront DiceK/Cook. Ellsbury is back. Crawford is back. Sweeney and Ross are platooning in RF. Either Youkilis is back to health or Middlebrooks is cruising at 3B.

 

This team just needs to weather the storm. Even if they don't dish for another RP at or before the deadline, they've still got the horses.

[kapsis21]

He did fine. I don't care if he throws at 50mph if he gets guys out. I saw him keeping the ball down and not throwing meatballs in the center of the plate. I would not send him to Pawtucket right now' date=' not until he fails. They already sent Tazawa down again and in six innings pitched so far his ERA is..............ZERO! Smart move by our FO...again.[/quote']

 

yep. send Buchy down. not Tazawa, i dont care who has options left or not. Tazawa was getting us out of jams. he was the one reliable arm and we send him back to do what exactly, get more innings at minors when he was getting all the hitters out on big leagues... its pathetic at times i agree. FO knows the bullpen is crap.

 

i would much rather have Tazawa than Albers any freaking given day.

[a700hitter]

As currently constituted? Sure.

 

But you have to think - This isn't the bullpen we're going to have for the rest of the year.

 

First off, DiceK is coming back in about 1.5 months. At that point, Bard will likely be at 80-85 IP. You bump him to the bullpen for the remainder of the year so that he has a gradual inning build up. So mid-June, you've got Bard back in the bullpen.

 

Then comes July - you get Bailey back. Now you've got Morales - Aceves - Bard - Bailey for the entire 2nd half of the season, as well as Crawford and Ellsbury back on the defensive side.

 

Still not good enough? That's fine. You've got Alex Wilson and Mark Melancon down in AAA. It's extremely reasonable to bet that 1 of those 2 will be able to come up and make an impact at the MLB level.

 

So now, it's the ASB, and your bullpen is Bailey - Bard - Aceves - Morales - Melancon/Wilson - Hill - Albers.

 

Still don't like it? Go make a move for Matt Thornton. Guy throws absolute gas and consistently K's 9-10/9.

 

Now all of a sudden this bullpen is a strength and you've got a rotation of Lester Beckett Buchholz Doubront DiceK/Cook. Ellsbury is back. Crawford is back. Sweeney and Ross are platooning in RF. Either Youkilis is back to health or Middlebrooks is cruising at 3B.

 

This team just needs to weather the storm. Even if they don't dish for another RP at or before the deadline, they've still got the horses.

I agree that this is not the pen that will end the season, but I don't think we have the luxury of 1 1/2 months to wait for reinforcements, and I don't think the first reinforcement (Dice K) will be a huge help. I haven't read anything that indicates that Bailey will be back in July. I think that he is more likely to be rehabbing at that point. Melancon has always been a very good AAA pitcher, but I have no reason to be optimistic that he can help the MLB team. Similarly, I have no reason to be optimistic about Alex Wison. The last time I saw him they had to get him out of camp ASAP before his psyche got damaged. We need real reliable arms now. Two guys is all they need. They can't wait until June15th for this situation to improve or they will be looking up at too many teams.

[a700hitter]

yep. send Buchy down. not Tazawa, i dont care who has options left or not. Tazawa was getting us out of jams. he was the one reliable arm and we send him back to do what exactly, get more innings at minors when he was getting all the hitters out on big leagues... its pathetic at times i agree. FO knows the bullpen is crap.

 

i would much rather have Tazawa than Albers any freaking given day.

Buchholz has to be given time to work things out. Tazawa got caught up in a numbers game. Unless they were willing to cut Albers, Tazawa was the only choice. I would have cut Albers.

[kapsis21]

Buchholz has to be given time to work things out. Tazawa got caught up in a numbers game. Unless they were willing to cut Albers' date=' Tazawa was the only choice. I would have cut Albers.[/quote']

 

i thought ALbers had 1 option left for minors.. ahh crap, my bad.

so Albers no options, Atch no options Buch has 1 option left but they still dont want to send him down yet..

doesnt make sense but yet i understand the move now.. but then why is Mortensen in the pen.. he looked golden but that was the As lineup.....

[a700hitter]

i thought ALbers had 1 option left for minors.. ahh crap, my bad.

so Albers no options, Atch no options Buch has 1 option left but they still dont want to send him down yet..

doesnt make sense but yet i understand the move now.. but then why is Mortensen in the pen.. he looked golden but that was the As lineup.....

They sent down Iglesias.

[Laser Show]

They sent down Iglesias.

 

Does that use up another option?

[User Name]

Yup' date=' the thing is that our question marks are bigger than other teams'. We said that over and over again. The margin of error was very thin, we said. We have lost key players very soon plus some key players are not performing as we all expected. BP experiments cost us games. This Bard Experiment is costing us games. Buch is not performing as all expected. RIGHT NOW, our pitching staff is horrible. This is a very unbalanced team. Sure, it still early but this team has a lot to work to do if we want to turn around things. The coming schedule is key. The second half of the season is likely tougher, so we need to win as many games we can before our injured players comeback.[/quote']

 

Are you for real?

 

The Rays have the second worst bullpen in baseball and just lost Evan Longoria for two months.

 

The Yankees have a rotation made of Fat Sabby and wet tissue paper, have a bunch of injuries and question marks on their offense.

 

The Angels are sucking, with their offense (as i predicted) scuffling out of the gate. Pujols will be Pujols, but that probably won't be enough to offset the offensive inadequacy, unless Trout starts hitting, and the MIF and C actually start giving them something. And don't get me started on that D with Trumbo at 3rd and the OF sans Trout looking like a circus.

 

The Tigers have serious pitching depth issues, injuries and off-the-field problems at the moment.

 

Take off the pessimist glasses.

[a700hitter]

Does that use up another option?

Yes, but they can send him down and recall him all season long on the same option.

[Laser Show]

Yes' date=' but they can send him down and recall him all season long on the same option.[/quote']

 

Ah, gotcha. I thought if you were called up and sent down, that would be 1 option.

[jung]

It is a give or should be that every team has its challenges and will have some injuries. I really only care about how the Sox are playing.

 

To me it is a team built to win games on offense and they need to play smarter baseball to win games. Offense is not just hitting and I just don't think this team is strong enough to bludgeon teams to death, even with Ells and CC whenever they come back.

 

They need to make good on all of this fundamentals and new found team cohesiveness crap cause they still can't lay down a bunt, still don't hit behind runners, still don't play situational baseball worth crap and are so noticeably impatient at the plate that even the NESN fanboys are commenting on it now.

 

Play smarter baseball so you don't get beat by a team that just has a couple of good pitchers cause that is all the A's brought to the table. Couple good not great pitchers, no offense and a porous defense but those A's pitchers kept the Sox hitters dancin' like puppets and that is all they needed to win 2/3. Can't win on offense when the offense wakes up at about the 5th inning if at all.

 

C'mon Pedey, get these guys playin'. They will follow him if he knows what to do and when to do it. Hell of a burden for a guy that already has to bail their ass out of the fire on a nightly basis but I don't know who else to look to on that team.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Terrible series against the A's. Unacceptable, really. Letting a horrible, horrible A's team come into Fenway and take 2/3 from you is putrid, at best.

 

But, even the best teams go through slumps like that, and the team is still 7-3 in the last 10. You can't start out 4-10 and then expect to be over .500 in a week and a half.

 

Even last year, when this team was going as well as it could possibly go, they still lost 2/3 to the Padres and 2/3 to the Pirates, both of which are teams that I would put in the class of the A's.

 

Lester is coming off a magnificent start against the ChiSox. Continue that trend against the Orioles. It all starts with starting pitching, and hitting is contagious.

 

Take 2/3 from the O's and sweep the Royals, this team will be in good shape.

 

Like I said. Weather the storm. The reinforcements are on their way.

[a700hitter]

Like I said. Weather the storm. The reinforcements are on their way.

Please stop teasing me with this. It's like telling a 5 year old in July that Christmas is right around the corner.

[jung]

Great, Lester had a solid performance...is he a better pitcher today than he was a month ago? He is what he is. Taken as a group the Sox have good/middling starting pitching this year ranked against the AL in general . The Rays have great starting pitching. They may even be able to withstand that train wreck of a bull pen they have because they have great starting pitching. We will have to see on that one. The problem for the Sox when you look at starting pitching, the most important element of baseball, is that there are a fair number of staffs between the Rays and the Red Sox.

 

You can hit till the cows come home it all begins with the starting pitching. If you don't have really good to great starting pitching then the next thing to have is a great bull pen. If you don't have a great bull pen the next thing to have is offense and that is what the Sox could have. Right now the Sox have hitters but they really don't even have offense. They will have more hitters when CC and Ells come back but that is no guarantee that they will have offense.

 

As has been witnessed in the last couple of games, good pitchers do not have to worry about good hitters. The only hitters good pitchers have to worry about is good hitters that are also smart hitters. Good pitchers can and will keep good hitters dancing at the end of a string and unless they are also smart hitters, they won't get you very far.

 

Truly good offense and good hitting involves being able to work the count to a pitch that you can handle and then handling it. Without that at the end of the year you end up with a bunch of very impressive batting averages and no wins. I suspect this team will record many wins because there are so many s*** teams in the ML's. They will even win a few games by out-pitching the other guy' starters. However I could not place them as a better than 92-90 win team before. Now I am struggling to see how they get to 90 wins with this team unless they have a real good look in the mirror and smarten' up at the plate because offense is what they could have if they smarten' up at the plate. They have to become a team that can hit behind runners, move runners along and work counts. If not, prepare to have a bunch of independently good hitting stats that roll up to going home at the end of the season. With the exception of maybe Pedey they are not good enough to just go out there and do as they please at the plate.

 

I have said this before but the propensity to build a team around Fenway Park was masked for its weaknesses in the steroid era. We are going back to a time where pitching and defense are once again as important as they were before the steroid era began. Take a look at the Sox record of accomplishment for that period and that is what you are looking at again. But that is a discussion for another day. The team they have is the team they have. It must win on offense or it will not win enough to matter.

[a700hitter]

Great, Lester had a solid performance...is he a better pitcher today than he was a month ago? He is what he is. Taken as a group the Sox have good/middling starting pitching this year ranked against the AL in general . They are not the Rays when it comes to starting pitching and few teams are. However in part the reason the Rays will continue to win games without Longoria is because they have great starting pitching. They are even better set up to withstand that train wreck of a bull pen they have because they have great starting pitching. The problem for the Sox when you look at starting pitching, the most important element of baseball, is that there are a fair number of staffs between the Rays and the Red Sox.

 

You can hit till the cows come home it all begins with the starting pitching. If you don't have really good to great starting pitching then the next thing to have is a great bull pen. If you don't have a great bull pen the next thing to have is offense and that is what the Sox could have. Right now the Sox have hitters but they really don't even have offense. They will have more hitters when CC and Ells come back but that is no guarantee that they will have offense.

 

As has been witnessed in the last couple of games, good pitchers do not have to worry about good hitters. The only hitters good pitchers have to worry about is good hitters that are also smart hitters. Good pitchers can and will keep good hitters dancing at the end of a string and unless they are also smart hitters, they won't get you very far.

 

Truly good offense and good hitting involves being able to work the count to a pitch that you can handle and then handling it. Without that at the end of the year you end up with a bunch of very impressive batting averages and no wins. I suspect this team will record many wins because there are so many s*** teams in the ML's. They will even win a few games by out-pitching the other guy' starters. However I could not place them as a better than 92-90 win team before. Now I am struggling to see how they get to 90 wins with this team unless they have a real good look in the mirror and smarten' up at the plate because offense is what they could have if they smarten' up at the plate. They have to become a team that can hit behind runners, move runners along and work counts. If not, prepare to have a bunch of independently good hitting stats that roll up to going home at the end of the season. With the exception of maybe Pedey they are not good enough to just go out there and do as they please at the plate.

 

I have said this before but the propensity to build a team around Fenway Park was masked for its weaknesses in the steroid era. We are going back to a time where pitching and defense are once again as important as they were before the steroid era began. Take a look at the Sox record of accomplishment for that period and that is what you are looking at again. But that is a discussion for another day. The team they have is the team they have. It must win on offense or it will not win enough to matter.

We need to bludgeon teams, and it is very hard to do that consistently.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Great, Lester had a solid performance...is he a better pitcher today than he was a month ago? He is what he is. Taken as a group the Sox have good/middling starting pitching this year ranked against the AL in general . The Rays have great starting pitching. They may even be able to withstand that train wreck of a bull pen they have because they have great starting pitching. We will have to see on that one. The problem for the Sox when you look at starting pitching, the most important element of baseball, is that there are a fair number of staffs between the Rays and the Red Sox.

 

You can hit till the cows come home it all begins with the starting pitching. If you don't have really good to great starting pitching then the next thing to have is a great bull pen. If you don't have a great bull pen the next thing to have is offense and that is what the Sox could have. Right now the Sox have hitters but they really don't even have offense. They will have more hitters when CC and Ells come back but that is no guarantee that they will have offense.

 

As has been witnessed in the last couple of games, good pitchers do not have to worry about good hitters. The only hitters good pitchers have to worry about is good hitters that are also smart hitters. Good pitchers can and will keep good hitters dancing at the end of a string and unless they are also smart hitters, they won't get you very far.

 

Truly good offense and good hitting involves being able to work the count to a pitch that you can handle and then handling it. Without that at the end of the year you end up with a bunch of very impressive batting averages and no wins. I suspect this team will record many wins because there are so many s*** teams in the ML's. They will even win a few games by out-pitching the other guy' starters. However I could not place them as a better than 92-90 win team before. Now I am struggling to see how they get to 90 wins with this team unless they have a real good look in the mirror and smarten' up at the plate because offense is what they could have if they smarten' up at the plate. They have to become a team that can hit behind runners, move runners along and work counts. If not, prepare to have a bunch of independently good hitting stats that roll up to going home at the end of the season. With the exception of maybe Pedey they are not good enough to just go out there and do as they please at the plate.

 

I have said this before but the propensity to build a team around Fenway Park was masked for its weaknesses in the steroid era. We are going back to a time where pitching and defense are once again as important as they were before the steroid era began. Take a look at the Sox record of accomplishment for that period and that is what you are looking at again. But that is a discussion for another day. The team they have is the team they have. It must win on offense or it will not win enough to matter.

 

The Red Sox have very good pitchers in their rotation. The reason they are not throwing well consistently is because they are consistently behind in the count. They are consistently 1-0, 2-0, 2-1, 3-1. Those counts turn .230 hitters into .300 hitters. They cannot keep working behind in the count, and when they do get ahead in the count and in 2 strike counts, they need to throw their offspeed stuff for strikes. They are nibbling entirely too much once they are ahead and evening up the count. This team is going to hit. If you're worried about the offense, don't be because they will hit. They aren't going to go 0-12 w RISP all year.

 

But the pitchers have to get ahead and execute 2 strike pitches. That's the difference between the Sox SP vs the Rays SP. Aggressiveness in the strike zone. Sox pitchers have he stuff to be effective in the K zone.

[iortiz]

I would say that we have two solid SP, another one who has to bounce back, and another two experiments who need to prove consistency but who seem that have the tools to succeed in the mid/long term. We need to see a bigger sample, though.

[a700hitter]

The Red Sox have very good pitchers in their rotation. The reason they are not throwing well consistently is because they are consistently behind in the count. They are consistently 1-0, 2-0, 2-1, 3-1. Those counts turn .230 hitters into .300 hitters. They cannot keep working behind in the count, and when they do get ahead in the count and in 2 strike counts, they need to throw their offspeed stuff for strikes. They are nibbling entirely too much once they are ahead and evening up the count. This team is going to hit. If you're worried about the offense, don't be because they will hit. They aren't going to go 0-12 w RISP all year.

 

But the pitchers have to get ahead and execute 2 strike pitches. That's the difference between the Sox SP vs the Rays SP. Aggressiveness in the strike zone. Sox pitchers have he stuff to be effective in the K zone.

I think you just hit the nail on the head, but what your post does is it explains why the Red Sox pitchers are not as good as the Rays' pitchers.

 

It's kind of like something I have heard at times about certain pitchers. People will say that he has 1 bad inning per game (about 4 runs), but he is otherwise good. I answer that statement with a question. What do you call a pitcher that has one bad inning per game? Answer: A bad pitcher.

[jung]

The Red Sox have very good pitchers in their rotation. The reason they are not throwing well consistently is because they are consistently behind in the count. They are consistently 1-0, 2-0, 2-1, 3-1. Those counts turn .230 hitters into .300 hitters. They cannot keep working behind in the count, and when they do get ahead in the count and in 2 strike counts, they need to throw their offspeed stuff for strikes. They are nibbling entirely too much once they are ahead and evening up the count. This team is going to hit. If you're worried about the offense, don't be because they will hit. They aren't going to go 0-12 w RISP all year.

 

So are those mystery ghost pitchers getting behind in the count, leaving the real guys to clean up the mess? They are the same pitchers.

 

Bard definitely has instances when he gets to fine or tries to be. Doubront is a bit better in that regard. I still think that most nights they will out-dual the other 4's and 5's that they will face around the league. However that is asking alot' of your 4 and 5. They are down there because they have lapses in concentration, lose certain pitches on certain nights, do things like Bard did last night etc. So having them as the competitive strong points meaning 1s' vs 1s', 2s' vs 2s' etc etc is not all that comforting. It is what it is.

 

They have pitchers that have the potential to be "good" to "very good" pitchers in Doubront and Bard, still learning their craft. They have one very good pitcher (Beckett) that is really transitioning to the back half of his career, no longer strong enough to be a 1 but very competitive with most 2's and better than many of them. They have one good pitcher in Lester that is just overmatched in many cases in the competitive comparison between other 1's and they have Buch who has probably seen his best days but who will still be a serviceable pitcher from here on.

 

Buch is what Buch is now. I am not looking for some big turnaround because Buch appears to be between a rock and a hard place. The more stress he put on that body of his, the more it betrayed him. He gained weight because he needed the weight and then the weight became another kind of stress factor that caused him problems. He has come full circle now and here he is. I think Buch will be a good pitcher for the remainder of his career. Frankly the sooner he can get out of the AL East the better it will be for him.

 

I think Beckett is as solid as he can be. He was not ready for as much of a change as he has gone through one season to the next but he has adapted to it and while you would think he would have more trouble pitching games coming from a background as a flamethrower, he knows more about pitching than the rest of the starters combined including Lester and "pitches" better than any of them.

 

Lester has the best stuff on the staff but he so far for two years now gags on the big moment, the antithesis of of what a #1 needs to be. Where Beckett is solid in the competitive comparisons between himself and other 2's Lester is weak in the competitive comparison between himself and other 1's and the difference still falls on the minus side of the ledger for those two pitchers.

 

How you cobble a "very good" rotation out of that is beyond me. You simply cannot cobble "very good" out of our bunch when there are examples of very good to look at. If Lester and Buch were as advantageous in the competitive comparisons between themselves and other 1's and 3's as Doubront and Bard are in the comparison between themselves and other 4's and 5's and now you have something. Even switch the comparisons so that Doubront and Bard are weaknesses and Lester and Buch are strengths and you still have something. But that is not what we have at least not for this year.

 

These starters have not been a disappointment to me in the sense that I really did not expect more from them. That does not suddenly turn them into a very good staff.

 

Who knows what dice will have when he gets back but while Buch might have been the linchpin at one point, maybe dice will give us more than we have a right to hope for when he does get back. I have my doubts about Cook especially if he ever has to pitch against the metal of the AL East (and I don't mean the O's).

[a700hitter]

So are those mystery ghost pitchers getting behind in the count, leaving the real guys to clean up the mess? They are the same pitchers.

 

Bard definitely has instances when he gets to fine or tries to be. Doubront is a bit better in that regard. I still think that most nights they will out-dual the other 4's and 5's that they will face around the league. However that is asking alot' of your 4 and 5. They are down there because they have lapses in concentration, lose certain pitches on certain nights, do things like Bard did last night etc. So having them as the competitive strong points meaning 1s' vs 1s', 2s' vs 2s' etc etc is not all that comforting. It is what it is.

 

They have pitchers that have the potential to be "good" to "very good" pitchers in Doubront and Bard, still learning their craft. They have one very good pitcher (Beckett) that is really transitioning to the back half of his career, no longer strong enough to be a 1 but very competitive with most 2's and better than many of them. They have one good pitcher in Lester that is just overmatched in many cases in the competitive comparison between other 1's and they have Buch who has probably seen his best days but who will still be a serviceable pitcher from here on.

 

Buch is what Buch is now. I am not looking for some big turnaround because Buch appears to be between a rock and a hard place. The more stress he put on that body of his, the more it betrayed him. He gained weight because he needed the weight and then the weight became another kind of stress factor that caused him problems. He has come full circle now and here he is. I think Buch will be a good pitcher for the remainder of his career. Frankly the sooner he can get out of the AL East the better it will be for him.

 

I think Beckett is as solid as he can be. He was not ready for as much of a change as he has gone through one season to the next but he has adapted to it and while you would think he would have more trouble pitching games coming from a background as a flamethrower, he knows more about pitching than the rest of the starters combined including Lester and "pitches" better than any of them.

 

Lester has the best stuff on the staff but he so far for two years now gags on the big moment, the antithesis of of what a #1 needs to be. Where Beckett is solid in the competitive comparisons between himself and other 2's Lester is weak in the competitive comparison between himself and other 1's and the difference still falls on the minus side of the ledger for those two pitchers.

 

How you cobble a "very good" rotation out of that is beyond me. You simply cannot cobble "very good" out of our bunch when there are examples of very good to look at. If Lester and Buch were as advantageous in the competitive comparisons between themselves and other 1's and 3's as Doubront and Bard are in the comparison between themselves and other 4's and 5's and now you have something. Even switch the comparisons so that Doubront and Bard are weaknesses and Lester and Buch are strengths and you still have something. But that is not what we have at least not for this year.

 

These starters have not been a disappointment to me in the sense that I really did not expect more from them. That does not suddenly turn them into a very good staff.

 

Who knows what dice will have when he gets back but while Buch might have been the linchpin at one point, maybe dice will give us more than we have a right to hope for when he does get back. I have my doubts about Cook especially if he ever has to pitch against the metal of the AL East (and I don't mean the O's).

I think the FO may have bet on the wrong horse when they traded Masterson instead of Buchjholz.

[SoxFanForsyth]

I think the FO may have bet on the wrong horse when they traded Masterson instead of Buchjholz.

 

How about the fact that the Guardians wanted to trade Cliff Lee for Clay Buchholz, and Theo said no.

 

EDIT: The deal was straight up, too.

[a700hitter]

How about the fact that the Guardians wanted to trade Cliff Lee for Clay Buchholz, and Theo said no.

 

EDIT: The deal was straight up, too.

I'm sure that I raised holy hell here when that didn't go down, and I no doubt got criticized for wanting to mortgage the future etc. I was probably also accused of hating on Theo.

[Laser Show]

Buchholz was our future ace just a few years ago, I'm sure there were some absurd deals Theo turned down for him.