Bobby Valentine: job assessment poll

[FredLynn]

I realize that there is already a thread about Bobby Valentine, but this one is a bit different. Its not so much about a running commentary on him as a poll (I could not figure out how to actually start a poll here) on his job assessment. The people who post here are some of the most knowledgable fans around so I think its probably a fair assessment of RSN as a whole.

Please vote only once and since there is already another thread for ongoing discussion about him it might be best to reserve long commentaries for the other thread.

I will tally up the votes in about a week and post them.

 

Here are the choices:

 

A: Valentine has done as good a job as can be expected, given the circumstances he was handed.

 

B: Valentine has to be given more time to form an accurate job assessment. He has been here roughly four months and that is simply not long enough for me to grade him in an intelligent manner.

 

C: Valentine has done a poor job. He has made mistakes both on and off the field and deserves to be fired

[mvp 78]

Solid B

[Dojji]

B, but trending towards C.

 

How much worse off could we possibly be we be if we threw 'Tek into the fire as the manager?

[Laser Show]

A and B

 

Tony LaRussa, Bobby Cox, and Joe Torre combined couldn't do much better with this team.

[example1]

I'm going to choose D: Valentine was the wrong choice to begin with and expectations that he could turn this around were misguided.

 

I'm not saying his tenure in Boston will not be successful, I still have hope. However, I was thinking today about why it seems there is still a residual hangover from last year. How does a negative culture like that carry over despite regieme change and embarassment for all involved?

 

I'm starting to think that hiring Valentine as the antithesis to Francona actually perpetuates the problems from last year, rather than extinguishing it. Rather than merely moving on, Valentine is supposed to come in and fix something. I can't help but feel that if they had brought in, say, Lamont or Swaim or someone much less interesting that the discussion about last year would have just gone away. Poor play would be identified as poor play, rather than a residual culture that even the masterful Bobby Valentine is unable to fix... or which he makes worse.

 

They probably wouldnt have to be answering tons of questions about things that the manager says about players and just providing more bleeding chum for the media sharks. Another manager would have the right to say "Look, 2011 wasn't about me. It wasn't something I was involved with and something I'm not interested in re-hashing". For some reason, Valentine can't say that. He is supposedly the guy to fix this situation, so he cant pretend the situation doesn't exist... which is probably what's needed here.

 

Just my opinion. I'm starting to worry that the Sox over-compensated here. Not Bobby V's fault. Hopefully the situation disappears and the team starts winning so he can define the team for himself. Not off to a good start though.

[Laser Show]

My one issue with Bobby V is that I thought he'd have more backbone. He just acts like a puppet for management.

[Bellhorn04]

B is the obvious choice, but my hopes that Valentine can accomplish something with this team are fading fast. He may have already failed.

[jung]

I agree that V was the wrong guy for the job hired for the wrong reasons. However that is not V's fault. Once again the ever PR conscience Sox organization which oddly enough can't make a good PR decision to save its skin right now screwed this job up. This is a spotlight that LL will simply not be able to avoid either. This was clearly LL's doing.

 

That said, I would give V between a B and a C. He has made some mistakes, particularly in game management mistakes but he does not deserve to be fired for them at this point.

 

If the fire him now the ever pampered players will feel like they had one battle with V and won the war! They don't need to be made more comfortable than they are already.

[User Name]

B trending towards C. I expected him to be an off-the-field nightmare, as did almost everyone here. His in-game managing leaves something to be desired as well, though, but he could improve.

[TutGadol]

B, Off the field he is horrible but as far as lineups, roster control etc' he isn't good but isn't bad either. I tend to blame injuries and the team he was given.

[Spudboy]

B trending to E1's D.

[User Name]

What i don't understand is "as good a job as can be expected". That adds some bias to the poll, by creating a built-in excuse to choose option A. He's either done a good job, can't be assessed yet, or hasn't. No need to create any excuses for him.

[FredLynn]

What i don't understand is "as good a job as can be expected". That adds some bias to the poll' date=' by creating a built-in excuse to choose option A. He's either done a good job, can't be assessed yet, or hasn't. No need to create any excuses for him.[/quote']

 

I am not sure it presents any more bias than providing reasons to fire him (bad decisions on and off the field). I am not a statistician, so I posed the question in a way I thought best. Perhaps it could have been worded differently.

I am going to vote B. Four months is not enough time to properly assess someone with this tough an assignment.

[Spudboy]

I vote Fire him and bring in Eric Wedge.

[SeanP]

I go with D: Valentine was the wrong choice to begin with and expectations that he could turn this around were misguided, but leaning towards C

[Oldsoxfan]

After today's game anyone who thinks he isn't a solid C should have their head examined. L.L must be proud of his choice.

[Elktonnick]

After today's game anyone who thinks he isn't a solid C should have their head examined. L.L must be proud of his choice.

 

Yea firing nthe manager will certainly improve this dog s*** bullpen which gave up 14 runs in two innings. Id agree to BV getting axed if Cherrington and Carmine and the entire FO go first.

[Dojji]

 

I'm starting to think that hiring Valentine as the antithesis to Francona actually perpetuates the problems from last year, rather than extinguishing it. Rather than merely moving on, Valentine is supposed to come in and fix something. I can't help but feel that if they had brought in, say, Lamont or Swaim or someone much less interesting that the discussion about last year would have just gone away. Poor play would be identified as poor play, rather than a residual culture that even the masterful Bobby Valentine is unable to fix... or which he makes worse.

 

This is an excellent point, and something I felt strongly about in the offseason (although it is spelled "Sveum," as this is good ole Windmill Dale we're talking about IIRC).

 

Personally my choice was Ken Macha, and for exactly the same reasons I suspect Cherington wanted Sveum.

[Northern Star]

A bit from A and B. He's rearranging deckchairs on the Titanic.

[example1]

This is an excellent point, and something I felt strongly about in the offseason (although it is spelled "Sveum," as this is good ole Windmill Dale we're talking about IIRC).

 

Personally my choice was Ken Macha, and for exactly the same reasons I suspect Cherington wanted Sveum.

 

I felt like there was something too simple about spelling it Swaim. I have a relative with that last name (with the 'w'), maybe that's why it came off poorly.

 

I feel bad for Valentine because I think this is a task that might prove to be literally impossible for him to do.

 

Imagine a country who is trying to get over a particular event by bringing in a leader who does everything in his/her power to avoid or repair the damage from that event. By acting as the exact counter-argument to the event, the event keeps its influence when the real goal should be to forget the event and genuinely move on.

 

Perhaps it will turn out that Valentine will end up being the perfect example of why a manager like Francona actually was the best fit for Boston and allow Cherington to go get someone in that mold.

 

The idea of putting someone in there who takes news away from the players by creating it himself seems like trying to outthink the room. They should put someone in there who is so boring that neither the players or the manager are the story. That's really the goal.

[Dojji]

Imagine a country who is trying to get over a particular event by bringing in a leader who does everything in his/her power to avoid or repair the damage from that event. By acting as the exact counter-argument to the event, the event keeps its influence when the real goal should be to forget the event and genuinely move on.

 

Sounds like the 2008 election to me.

 

And for the record, I agree completely. It's always better to move forward than it is to chose our leader based on who that leader isn't.

[VA Sox Fan]

Sounds like the 2008 election to me.

And for the record, I agree completely. It's always better to move forward than it is to chose our leader based on who that leader isn't.

 

:lol: So true.

 

I am still attempting to give BV the benefit of the doubt because I've never liked him.

 

I do have to say, I don't recall Tito ever being boo'd like that at Fenway.

 

He'll make it through the All Star break, maybe. Unless things change significantly.

[Dojji]

If he's going to finish this epic embarrassment against the Yankees in the style I think he will, he might not make it through to Monday.

[VA Sox Fan]

If he's going to finish this epic embarrassment against the Yankees in the style I think he will' date=' he might not make it through to Monday.[/quote']

 

 

I'm praying for a rain out!

[metsox]

Solid B.

The players play the game. The pen is atrocious. The starting pitching aside from today

has been pretty brutal too:

 

The NY Post reported:

Clay Buchholz, who has a 9.00 ERA and has allowed five or more runs in each of his three starts, surrendered five homers in six-plus innings. Boston’s top starters, Jon Lester (0-2, 5.82) and Josh Beckett (1-2, 5.03), haven’t been much better.

 

Something like 60-70 million dollars worth of players sit on the DL. The Sox have a 175 million dollars in salaries and most of it on 11 guys several of whom are not playing.

 

The people booing Bobby and not the players are giving comfort to the players at a time when they should be looking in the mirror and evaluating their play. Not hiding behind fan anger because the manager called out a player(rightly or wrongly).

[iortiz]

B.

 

if we fail, it won't likely be because of him, as I said, we have too much holes and experiments running in this team. A lot of ifs, wishes, hopes, etc. if we fail, charge this to the FO, again.

 

On the other hand in the sin you got the penitence.

[RedSoxNC84]

I'm still going to blame Melancon.

[Whatsinaname]

B minus.

 

Needs to publicly say that the Pen is a disgrace and letting down the Nation and that if they don;t extract a digit, they will be gone.

[VA Sox Fan]

B.

 

if we fail, it won't likely be because of him, as I said, we have too much holes and experiments running in this team. A lot of ifs, wishes, hopes, etc. if we fail, charge this to the FO, again.

 

On the other hand in the sin you got the penitence.

 

But imagine what it would be like if Tito was still here. People would be calling for his head.

 

Regardless, it is hard to put that much blame on the manager when there are obviously so many other problems.

[SoxSport]

V lost this game almost single-handedly today by going to the bullpen too soon--instead of letting a strong Dubront pitch into the 7th. The way to beat the Yankees is with good LHP, and Dubront provided that today.

 

I'm unimpressed by Vs handling of pitching so far--seems like warmed over Tito. Too much pressure on a mediocre bullpen that is one Bailey short. The starters simply have got to go deeper to take the pressure off the bullpen. Dubront could have today, and Valentine blew it.

 

When you factor in Vs big mouth, what is there to like over Tito? Nothing so far.