How about Daniel Bard so far?

[kapsis21]

You're not correct. If you're hurt, the first thing that goes is control. One of the first signs that an injured pitcher is in trouble is that he can't get it over the plate

 

Of course it depends on the injury to an extent. A lower body injury would impact velocity more. But Daisuke had a shoulder/elbow/TJ problem, and that affects command.

 

its always velocity that goes. you can have command if you throw 85 mph.. but that would be batting practice wouldn't it?

[Laser Show]

its always velocity that goes. you can have command if you throw 85 mph.. but that would be batting practice wouldn't it?

 

Tell Jamie Moyer and Greg Maddux that, I don't think they got the memo

[kapsis21]

Tell Jamie Moyer and Greg Maddux that' date=' I don't think they got the memo[/quote']

 

everything has an exception Maddux and Moyer are certainly one of a kind.. but we are talking about having an injury which would affect velocity which would then make those pitches at 85mph like batting practice.

[User Name]

everything has an exception Maddux and Moyer are certainly one of a kind.. but we are talking about having an injury which would affect velocity which would then make those pitches at 85mph like batting practice.

 

Funny that Moyer is actually an example of pitchers losing velocity due to injury.

[kapsis21]

Funny that Moyer is actually an example of pitchers losing velocity due to injury.

 

is that sarcasm? :dunno: i am confused.

[FredLynn]

its always velocity that goes. you can have command if you throw 85 mph.. but that would be batting practice wouldn't it?

 

Kapsis, there are many successful pitchers who rely on location rather than velocity. I also believe that there is more room for error when you throw hard, but its far from a prerequisite for success as a pitcher. I would take a guy with command over a guy who throws hard with no command any day.

[User Name]

is that sarcasm? :dunno: i am confused.

 

No, i'm serious. I remember reading a story about Moyer after he signed with the Phillies in which they detailed his journey through MLB. He used to throw mid-90's, then had a throwing arm injury (shoulder iirc) and became the soft tosser we know today.

[kapsis21]

Kapsis' date=' there are many successful pitchers who rely on location rather than velocity. I also believe that there is more room for error when you throw hard, but its far from a prerequisite for success as a pitcher. I would take a guy with command over a guy who throws hard with no command any day.[/quote']

 

i think i didnt quote it correctly.. but i totally agree if a pitcher is throwing where the catchers mitt is nothing like that...

but pitchers that beat the bat due to velocity will get roughed up if suddenly there is a dip in speed. even though i think velocity is over rated. but if you are injurred a bit velocity will go down.. and for someone like dice-k it would turn into batting practice..(thats a big assumption but he did struggle before his surgery)

[kapsis21]

No' date=' i'm serious. I remember reading a story about Moyer after he signed with the Phillies in which they detailed his journey through MLB. He used to throw mid-90's, then had a throwing arm injury (shoulder iirc) and became the soft tosser we know today.[/quote']

 

like i said Maddux and Moyer are one of a kind. but overall perception is you need to have pinpoint command for velocity to not matter. very few have that and consistently put up good numbers with it year after year..

[User Name]

like i said Maddux and Moyer are one of a kind. but overall perception is you need to have pinpoint command for velocity to not matter. very few have that and consistently put up good numbers with it year after year..

 

Usually when pitchers lose the amount of velocity Moyer lost, they are done as Major Leaguers, but he's just an example of how unpredictable the game of baseball is.

[kapsis21]

Usually when pitchers lose the amount of velocity Moyer lost' date=' they are done as Major Leaguers, but he's just an example of how unpredictable the game of baseball is.[/quote']

 

agreed.

[SoxSport]

When was the last time Daisuke was consistently 'on form'? 4 years ago? 5?

 

This is a good exhibit of just how perverted this has gotten. If it was just about Daisuke, his arrival would have been met with a resounding "meh" because that's all he's earned in this uniform, but for some reason, everyone's all just-wait-until-Daisuke-gets-back. Like it's some kind of messianic coming or something.

 

People are pulling for Daisuke now exclusively because he's the one best chance of them getting Bard in the pen, regardless of the fact that Daisuke has been mediocre and inconsistent for his entire freaking career with the Sox and hasn't been a match for what Bard is doing right now as a starter since the first few months after his arrival in the States. It's bizarre.

 

It's all about $$$. Dice-K makes the big bucks. He starts.

 

Rightfully, he should be in the bullpen right now, until he is ready to start. Same for Buchholz, who clearly wasn't ready to be no.3 starter in April.

 

Too bad the Red Sox front office has such a sharp line between starters and relievers. One of their errors they get away with. I'm not happy with them the last few years. And the same guys are still there, except for Epstein. I don't think much has changed, except Henry has taken the money away from them.

[mvp 78]

Considering how long it takes him to warm up, putting DiceK in the pen would be useless.

[a700hitter]

Considering how long it takes him to warm up' date=' putting DiceK in the pen would be useless.[/quote']As compared to how completely useless he has been since 2008.

[Station 13]

Dice-K won't be back Till June 1st. 1 month window for them to see what Buchholz/Cook are doing.

[mvp 78]

As compared to how completely useless he has been since 2008.

 

If he's used at all this year, it will be to start.

[a700hitter]

If he's used at all this year' date=' it will be to start.[/quote']That's not very comforting. Maybe we can arrange for him to start each inning with the bases loaded to reduce the stress on his surgically repaired arm and reduce the length of the games.

[SCM33]

Bard AND Doubront will not be in the rotation all year. They will be on innings limits. One or both will be in the bullpen by the years end. By the time Dice-K is ready, he may have a spot open for him.

[redsoxbeatz]

^^^ that's too bad. DiceK sucks and I like Doub & Bard in the rotation. Minus the small meltdown Felix had today he was solid 8K in like, 4~5 innings.

[ORS]

When was the last time Daisuke was consistently 'on form'? 4 years ago? 5?

 

This is a good exhibit of just how perverted this has gotten. If it was just about Daisuke, his arrival would have been met with a resounding "meh" because that's all he's earned in this uniform, but for some reason, everyone's all just-wait-until-Daisuke-gets-back. Like it's some kind of messianic coming or something.

 

People are pulling for Daisuke now exclusively because he's the one best chance of them getting Bard in the pen, regardless of the fact that Daisuke has been mediocre and inconsistent for his entire freaking career with the Sox and hasn't been a match for what Bard is doing right now as a starter since the first few months after his arrival in the States. It's bizarre.

Three months ago, this was you (paraphrased).....

 

When was the last time Bard was a good starter?

 

Plus, your recap his performance/injury history is way off. I'd suggest stepping down from your high horse.

[Orange Juiced]

Bard AND Doubront will not be in the rotation all year. They will be on innings limits. One or both will be in the bullpen by the years end. By the time Dice-K is ready' date=' he may have a spot open for him.[/quote']

 

First post here...good time to chime in. I agree with this post. I don't know what the innings limit will be, but it'll likely be around 150-160. Probably once Bard hits, say, 145, they'll shift him to the bullpen, and he can finish the last month or six weeks in the bullpen.

 

Personally, I'm loving the move to starter so far. 150 innings of Bard is better than 70 innings of Bard. I think he can become a very good starting pitcher in a year or two (along the lines of 200 ip, 16+ w, low to mid 3's era, and 8 k/9).

[User Name]

Three months ago, this was you (paraphrased).....

 

When was the last time Bard was a good starter?

 

Plus, your recap his performance/injury history is way off. I'd suggest stepping down from your high horse.

 

And take off the tinfoil hat too.

[JohnGreen2004]

I agree with Orange Juiced, Bard has tremendous potential. One of his problems have been late innings when he should be on the bench anyways. His max for now should be 100 pitches.

[SoxSport]

Bard seems destined for the closer role. He hasn't opened eyes yet as a starter. OK but not great.

 

If Cook shows anything his start tommorrow, he and Dice-K could be Bard's ticket to the bullpen.

 

The pitching has to improve, or this club will never get off .500.

[SoxSport]

Mazz' well thought out blog on why Bard is out of place as starter and should be closing. That was evident last night against KC. The FO erred in not moving Bard to closer as soon as Bailey was injured.

I suspect it wasn't V's decision--which is one of the Red Sox problems. It's time for Lucchino/Henry to stop the trainwreck.

 

http://www.boston.com/sports/columnists/massarotti/2012/05/bard_playing_out_of_position.html

[Bellhorn04]

Mazz' well thought out blog on why Bard is out of place as starter and should be closing. That was evident last night against KC. The FO erred in not moving Bard to closer as soon as Bailey was injured.

I suspect it wasn't V's decision--which is one of the Red Sox problems. It's time for Lucchino/Henry to stop the trainwreck.

 

http://www.boston.com/sports/columnists/massarotti/2012/05/bard_playing_out_of_position.html

 

LMAO Mazz is the stupidest doofus sports writer in history. He counted Bard's relief appearance in his numbers and said Bard had 6 starts and was averaging only 5.1 innings per start. It's only been 5 starts. What an incredible moron Mazz is.

[Station 13]

What a freaking stupid article. Bard has kept his team in all the games he pitch.

[jung]

Mazz's total purpose in life is to make Felger look brilliant....While it is hard to imagine that possible, I can find no other rational for his existence.

[SoxSport]

LMAO Mazz is the stupidest doofus sports writer in history. He counted Bard's relief appearance in his numbers and said Bard had 6 starts and was averaging only 5.1 innings per start. It's only been 5 starts. What an incredible moron Mazz is.

 

Those are pretty heavy words for Mazz.

 

I think it's clear Bard hasn't shown anything special as a starter, and his Ks per inning are down. He's a different pitcher setting up for 1 or so innings throwing 100 heat.

 

Plus the biggest factor--he is currently needed in the bullpen, and the failure of the FO to recognize that when Bailey went down makes them arguably more "stupid" than Mazz.

[ORS]

I think I've nailed. SoxSport is a writer's agent for Mazz and Cafardo. That's the only plausible explanation for why someone would so regularly cite their work as reasonable and well thought out.