Bard to Rotation a Mistake?

[mvp 78]

Screw Daniel Bard. I hope he can find a good shrink. He can't even get it done in A ball now.

[a700hitter]

I suppose there might still be a few diehards who think there is some miracle awaiting when Bard comes back finally like new. It is fool's gold my friends. This guy is done, finis, nein, nyet, no mas!!!!!!! To me the tipoff is how he totally failed to make the adjustment back to the bullpen when his miserable trial as a starter went up in smoke. To me that spells a lack of touchness, a total inability to man up and move on. This is an extreme case of Craig Hansen (remember him?????). Bard is through!!!!!!!!!

Fred, you spotted that he was done from when he first got sent down last season. I doubt that he resurfaces as a late inning pressure pitcher.

[Bellhorn04]

Fred, you spotted that he was done from when he first got sent down last season.

 

Fred also swore that Ortiz was done in 2009 because his bat speed was gone. Fred guesses like the rest of us and gets some right, some wrong.

[mvp 78]

Fred also swore that Ortiz was done in 2009 because his bat speed was gone. Fred guesses like the rest of us and gets some right, some wrong.

 

Lavarnway is the real deal!

 

Yeah, it really is all guesswork. Claiming that any one of us knows more than another is wrong.

[a700hitter]

You guys are such dicks.

[Bellhorn04]

You guys are such dicks.

 

I couldn't help it. Fred and I go way back.

[a700hitter]

I couldn't help it. Fred and I go way back.

LOL! You are less of a dick than MVP.

[YAZMAN]

Screw Daniel Bard. I hope he can find a good shrink. He can't even get it done in A ball now.

 

But that's it in a nutshell, really. They knew the kid was a little shaky mentally, and they knew he had little success as a starter because of pitch limitations. They did know he had some success in a setup role. Look at how valuable guys like Okajima and Timlin were to the Sox. I believed that was his role, and given proper guidance he could have filled it well. Now, oh well.....

[VA Sox Fan]

But that's it in a nutshell, really. They knew the kid was a little shaky mentally, and they knew he had little success as a starter because of pitch limitations. They did know he had some success in a setup role. Look at how valuable guys like Okajima and Timlin were to the Sox. I believed that was his role, and given proper guidance he could have filled it well. Now, oh well.....

 

Happy Labor Day YAZ! Hope all is well.

 

Pretty sad about Bard. The FO screwed up on that one big time. I wish he had changed his mind like Papelbon did. At one time he wanted to start but decided to stay in the BP. Wish Bard had done the same thing or the FO encouraged him to do so. Now he's just ruined.

[YAZMAN]

lyn-nay!!!!

[VA Sox Fan]

lyn-nay!!!!

 

Dat be me!

[Behindenemylines]

Bard's struggles started in September of 2011 as he was part of the collapse. It was a mistake to move him out of the bullpen, but he was already failing before that. When pitchers with that much ability loss it, their problem is above the neck. For what ever reason Bard can not throw strikes.

[sk7326]

September 2011 was at least explained by usual small sample size bullpen stuff. He had a bad month etc etc. Clearly it is in his head, but that doesn't explain the drop in velo and the degradation of his pitches. It's one thing to not be able to locate pitches with life - but the life disappeared after his trek to the rotation. Yeah he has forgotten how to pitch, but honestly, even if he didn't - his stuff now is average when he used to have at least some plus-plus stuff.

[Behindenemylines]

I guess that is why players say it is hard to reach the majors, but even harder to stay there. You see how easy it was for a player considered one of the top setup men in baseball quickly fall to being this close to being out of baseball.

[sk7326]

I guess that is why players say it is hard to reach the majors, but even harder to stay there. You see how easy it was for a player considered one of the top setup men in baseball quickly fall to being this close to being out of baseball.

 

The plus-plus stuff is what will keep him employed fortunately for him. A team will take a chance - young guy, something happened. Could it be a buried medical thing, or a mechanical one or whatever.

[Bellhorn04]

I guess that is why players say it is hard to reach the majors, but even harder to stay there. You see how easy it was for a player considered one of the top setup men in baseball quickly fall to being this close to being out of baseball.

 

Right. The tasks required to play major league baseball are specialized and demanding. If Bard really wanted to throw a lot more strikes he probably could, but only by throwing the ball 88 MPH with no movement and down the middle. No point in doing that because every pitch would get hammered.

[seabeachfred]

Fred, you spotted that he was done from when he first got sent down last season. I doubt that he resurfaces as a late inning pressure pitcher.

 

 

There are times when you wish you were wrong and this is one of those times. Bard's problems were partly Cherington's desire to make him a starter but more on Bard himself. He wanted to start, the failed miserably and then couldn't get his crap together in the minors. Enough time has elapsed to make it clear that barring some miracle his time is up. A shame too because the guy had lightning stuff. What some of us might gloss over Ted is that he first started to come apart that September two years back. Whether it was overwork or a breakdown in his mechanics, it was Sept. 2011 that was the beginning of his Waterloo.

[seabeachfred]

I couldn't help it. Fred and I go way back.

 

You could have helped it better Bellhorn if you also could have mentioned Pedroia and Ellsbury---which you didn't. Easy to dismiss them now since they are both standout players but you were on Dirt Dogs back in late '06 and in '07, weren't you? While some posters there (don't know if you were one of them) were clamoring for Francona to replace Pedroia and trade for Ronnie Belliard, I insisted that Dustin would not only get squared away but would emerge as a standout player. Let's not get amnesia on that one. Also I remember that only Pumpsie Green and Elktonnick backed on Pedroia. As for Ellsbury, I was the guy carrying the torch for him over Crisp when you and a lot of others were insisting that the team stay with Coco in CF. Still, I really screwed up royally with Papi. It really looked to me that he was out of it that first part of the 2009 season. Mea culpa....I blew it.

 

As for MVP take on my enthusiasm for Lavarnway, do not be surprised if he goes elsewhere and becomes a standout offensive catcher. We have never given him a real shot at the position. BTW, what was your handle again on Sawxheads and Dirt Dogs?

[jacksonianmarch]

I would just like to point out who started this thread. (takes a bow). Bard was a failed experiment and experiments are fine with players who are playing below their talent level. But Bard was a high leverage reliever who was awesome in a 3 yr stretch. They f***ed up a good thing and he and Joba can cry about it

[User Name]

Who cares? You predict s*** going wrong for the Red Sox every time you log in. Throw enough s*** at the wall and.....

[mvp 78]

Everyone predicts s*** on here right and wrong. Nobody here has a crystal ball.

[jacksonianmarch]

This one was obvious

[sk7326]

I would just like to point out who started this thread. (takes a bow). Bard was a failed experiment and experiments are fine with players who are playing below their talent level. But Bard was a high leverage reliever who was awesome in a 3 yr stretch. They f***ed up a good thing and he and Joba can cry about it

 

Getting predictions wrong is a part of life - it's what makes this fun too. If you have a good reliever - and you think he can be a good starter, you really ought to try him starting ... 200 innings of value vs 60 - no contest. The thing is you have to either A) cut bait totally when it is not working (the Red Sox mistake) or be committed to it (the Yankees one with Joba).

 

It's hard to do these sorts of things in a, frankly, insane market like Boston or New York - especially with PR-obsessed management. Yankees should have been willing to stand behind the Joba experiment (and he was very very highly regarded as a STARTER by scouting types, which Bard never really was) and not be wishy washy about it. Fortunately of course, they screwed that up.

[seabeachfred]

This one was obvious

 

Kuddos to you Jacko; you had it pegged from the beginning. Too bad a player like that has to be ruined beyond redemption, but in Bard's case he did most of the damage to himself.

[Bellhorn04]

You could have helped it better Bellhorn if you also could have mentioned Pedroia and Ellsbury---which you didn't. Easy to dismiss them now since they are both standout players but you were on Dirt Dogs back in late '06 and in '07, weren't you? While some posters there (don't know if you were one of them) were clamoring for Francona to replace Pedroia and trade for Ronnie Belliard, I insisted that Dustin would not only get squared away but would emerge as a standout player. Let's not get amnesia on that one. Also I remember that only Pumpsie Green and Elktonnick backed on Pedroia. As for Ellsbury, I was the guy carrying the torch for him over Crisp when you and a lot of others were insisting that the team stay with Coco in CF. Still, I really screwed up royally with Papi. It really looked to me that he was out of it that first part of the 2009 season. Mea culpa....I blew it.

 

As for MVP take on my enthusiasm for Lavarnway, do not be surprised if he goes elsewhere and becomes a standout offensive catcher. We have never given him a real shot at the position. BTW, what was your handle again on Sawxheads and Dirt Dogs?

 

I'm hfxsoxnut on BDC and I was hfxbob on Sawxheads - one of the Pollies.

[RedSoxfanforlife305]

I would just like to point out who started this thread. (takes a bow). Bard was a failed experiment and experiments are fine with players who are playing below their talent level. But Bard was a high leverage reliever who was awesome in a 3 yr stretch. They f***ed up a good thing and he and Joba can cry about it

 

I would like to point out the Red Sox being a failure this year and the Yankees doing better (points at you)

 

*Encore*

[Bellhorn04]

As far as I know Bard is the first case of a pitcher losing the ability to throw strikes in a career-ending way after being moved from reliever to starter.

[rjortiz]

Bard has a history of the yips. When he first started his professional career, his control was awful. Although, we could point out that those numbers came when he was a starter. The transition always seemed like wishful thinking. He had no track record of being a successful starter as a professional, and wasn't that great as a starter at UNC.

[SoxSport]

Bard has a history of the yips. When he first started his professional career, his control was awful. Although, we could point out that those numbers came when he was a starter. The transition always seemed like wishful thinking. He had no track record of being a successful starter as a professional, and wasn't that great as a starter at UNC.

 

Should have been a flag converting him back to starter. They ignored it. The logical move for him was to closer. Cherington's biggest mistake. The other was getting fleeced by Beane on the Bailey trade. The FO was just trying to save money by not signing a FA starter. They ignored Bailey's injury history. It was a disaster.

[User Name]

Josh Reddick's 2013 OPS is .658. Just sayin'