Getting Another Starting Pitcher?

[SoxSport]

That vote is so lopsided it's bound to be the wrong advice.

[iortiz]

Based on the professional evaluation of talent' date=' Nolan Ryan doesn't spend 50 million dollars not to improve. He doesn't spend 50 million dollars on a hunch. It is not baseless conjecure as you contend but rather the informed opinion of a highly schooled and experienced professional. Unproven is simply inaccurate in this case. There is ample evidence to prove to experienced highly skilled professionals that run the Texas Rangers that Darvish is and will be a signiificant improvement. That fact that an unskilled amatuer disagrees with that assessment doesn't refute the reality that Darvish improves the Rangers significantly and the Red Sox have made no such corresponding countermove to offset it. And are worse off as a result.[/quote']

 

I agree.

 

As I said, a lot of analysts, betting firms/betting shops put LAA and TEX above us IN PAPER; as simple as that. Where would you put your money beyond your fandom? Those guys are professionals in this matter. Sure, a lot of things can change through the season, but TODAY, they and NY are the front runners to win the AL and probably the ring.

[User Name]

Newsflash: Most analysts and bookies are idiots.

 

Newsflash part 2: These are the same guys predicting Dice-K would be a super-ace in the states, and an ownership group spent near the same amount of money on him.

 

Newsflash part 3: I have never said Texas is not better than the Sox, so that's a misinterpretation. What i have said is that LAA is terribly overrated and i stand by that.

 

Please.

[Elktonnick]

Newsflash: Most analysts and bookies are idiots.

 

Newsflash part 2: These are the same guys predicting Dice-K would be a super-ace in the states, and an ownership group spent near the same amount of money on him.

 

Newsflash part 3: I have never said Texas is not better than the Sox, so that's a misinterpretation. What i have said is that LAA is terribly overrated and i stand by that.

 

Please.

 

With all due respect who the hell are you? Everyone is an idiot but you? Talk about abandoning logic! It is good to stand by your opinion but come on, don't insist that it is illogical or insignificant what the Angels and Rangers have done!

[User Name]

With all due respect who the hell are you? Everyone is an idiot but you? Talk about abandoning logic! It is good to stand by your opinion but come on' date=' don't insist that it is illogical or insignificant what the Angels and Rangers have done![/quote']

 

Hey i'm not saying anyone's an idiot. That is a (you guessed it) strawman. What i'm saying is that the Angels are terribly overrated (and many a columnist would agree that they are still far behing Texas) and that Darvish isn't set in stone to be an upgrade over Wilson, which is essentially like you said.

 

Now, if you can debate my actual argument, i would be very pleased.

[Elktonnick]

Hey i'm not saying anyone's an idiot. That is a (you guessed it) strawman. What i'm saying is that the Angels are terribly overrated (and many a columnist would agree that they are still far behing Texas) and that Darvish isn't set in stone to be an upgrade over Wilson, which is essentially like you said.

 

Now, if you can debate my actual argument, i would be very pleased.

 

That not what you said but okay if you want to amend your remarks Ok. I understand!

[SoxSport]

Oswalt at $8 million for 1 year is value. He can stop looking.

 

And at this point, I'd rather have Oswalt for a year than Scutaro.

[seabeachfred]

My pal Pumpsie has written off the season and he may be right, while he catches some rays and does some of his classic deep sea diving and exploring maybe the rest of us can try and figure out how we could cobble what we have into a team that could maybe actually win the AL East. A lot would have to fall our way, but thing would have to happen for certain. Our "Big Three" on the mound would have to have knockout years, our fourth starter who I hope is Aviles has to keep winning and our offense has to operate on all cylinders, and we cannot afford to have two or three of them have off years as we saw last season with Crawford and Youkilis.

 

BTW, anyone hear anything more on the Scutaro rumors?

[SoxSport]

My pal Pumpsie has written off the season and he may be right, while he catches some rays and does some of his classic deep sea diving and exploring maybe the rest of us can try and figure out how we could cobble what we have into a team that could maybe actually win the AL East. A lot would have to fall our way, but thing would have to happen for certain. Our "Big Three" on the mound would have to have knockout years, our fourth starter who I hope is Aviles has to keep winning and our offense has to operate on all cylinders, and we cannot afford to have two or three of them have off years as we saw last season with Crawford and Youkilis.

 

BTW, anyone hear anything more on the Scutaro rumors?

 

Last word is they are still thinking about it. They got Aviles and Iglesias, and can turn Scutaro into Oswalt or an outfielder. What's there to think about?

 

Never write off the season. They have too much talent, and it all depends on injuries anyways.

[SCM33]

You may not think so but Darvish is an upgrade. He may be technicaally a rookie but he is the real deal.

 

 

 

Lol, yeah....because the track record with "real deal" starting pitching from Japan is so good hugh?

 

Overhyped, overpriced....just like Dice-K was. He was once the "real deal" too. The gyroball.....the f***ing gyroball.

 

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=jp-gyro031306

 

Tell me that guy doesnt feel like an ******* today. A whole article about a pitch that never existed.

[RedSoxNC84]

Lol, yeah....because the track record with "real deal" starting pitching from Japan is so good hugh?

 

Overhyped, overpriced....just like Dice-K was. He was once the "real deal" too. The gyroball.....the f***ing gyroball.

 

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=jp-gyro031306

 

Tell me that guy doesnt feel like an ******* today. A whole article about a pitch that never existed.

 

Apparently at one point CJ Wilson claimed to be working on throwing the gyroball.

[ORS]

I agree.

 

As I said, a lot of analysts, betting firms/betting shops put LAA and TEX above us IN PAPER; as simple as that. Where would you put your money beyond the your fandom? Those guys are professionals in this matter. Sure, a lot of things can change through the season, but TODAY, they and Nzy are the front runners to win the AL and probably the ring.

I don't think you know how sports betting works.

[User Name]

I don't think you know how sports betting works.

 

No he doesn't.

[User Name]

That not what you said but okay if you want to amend your remarks Ok. I understand!

 

What a load of gibberish.

[Elktonnick]

What a load of gibberish.

 

You should know. You are backing away from your inuendos. That's what you do. You make outrageous overstatements. Accuse most experts who disagree with you of being idotis Then deny you do it. See below. Explain that!

 

"Newsflash: Most analysts and bookies are idiots."Your post 7:13 pm

"Hey i'm not saying anyone's an idiot." Your post:9:24 pm

[Palodios]

Dice K should not be in any Red Sox plans for 2012. In September he will be 18 months remved from TJ' date=' which is the soonest he will be back.[/quote']

 

All the reports I've been hearing say that he's already throwing and should be ready for June.

[User Name]

You should know. You are backing away from your inuendos. That's what you do. You make outrageous overstatements. Accuse most experts who disagree with you of being idotis Then deny you do it. See below. Explain that!

 

"Newsflash: Most analysts and bookies are idiots."Your post 7:13 pm

"Hey i'm not saying anyone's an idiot." Your post:9:24 pm

 

They don't "disagree with me" genius. What i meant by that is that they are usually wrong with their analysis and predictions. Which they are. Lrn2read.

 

I said that i'm not saying anyone on the forum is an idiot.

[Station 13]

All the reports I've been hearing say that he's already throwing and should be ready for June.

 

Doubt it's that soon.

 

Sometime in August at the earliest.

[Palodios]

Doubt it's that soon.

 

Sometime in August at the earliest.

 

One report I found said he's way ahead of schedule:

https://twitter.com/#%21/PeteAbe/status/136602875232133120

 

No setbacks, no reason to believe he can't follow the same recovery schedule as all the other pitchers who receive Tommy John's.

 

There have not been many reports on him, but the fact that Dice-k is in Florida right now, and not Japan is a very good sign. This is a contract year for him, so he'll have to perform well to get a good contract playing for the Lions next year.

[iortiz]

I don't think you know how sports betting works.

 

I'm not an expert/gambler but I bet once in a while. I'm curious, What made you think that?

[Elktonnick]

They don't "disagree with me" genius. What i meant by that is that they are usually wrong with their analysis and predictions. Which they are. Lrn2read.

 

I said that i'm not saying anyone on the forum is an idiot.

 

There is no reason for you to be so insulting all the time. You amended your remarks and arre now clarifying what you said. When I said that the first time you lashed out in your usual insulting manner. What you posted then is diffferent from your latest post. All you have to do is admit you made a mistake but you can't. You were caught in a lie and became defensive and lashed out. That's your MO. You are quick to tell other posters to stop now I am returning the favor. Stop being such a pompous twit!

[a700hitter]

Doubt it's that soon.

 

Sometime in August at the earliest.

It doesn't matter how hard they work. All of these guys work hard at rehabbing, so I wouldn't expect that he will recover any sooner than the others, certainly not 6 months sooner.

[yeszir]

Just FYI, neither of you is making it to opening day.

[a700hitter]

No setbacks, no reason to believe he can't follow the same recovery schedule as all the other pitchers who receive Tommy John's.

It usually takes 18 months for a starter to return to major league effectiveness.

[Station 13]

It doesn't matter how hard they work. All of these guys work hard at rehabbing' date=' so I wouldn't expect that he will recover any sooner than the others, certainly not 6 months sooner.[/quote']

 

TJS takes a guy 2 year to get back into form. Yeah he might could get on the mound before, but he'll has no feel for pitching.

[Cocos Disciples]

I think you have to go into the season not counting on anything from Dice or Lackey. Anything they give is a bonus (a very expensive one).

[Palodios]

TJS takes a guy 2 year to get back into form. Yeah he might could get on the mound before' date=' but he'll has no feel for pitching.[/quote']

 

It is 2012. The surgery is a lot better than it used to be. Strasburg had just over a year before he returned to form. Zimmerman had his July 2009, and came back August 2010. Tim Hudson had surgery in August 2008, and was back in September 2009. Marcum had the surgery in September 2008, and was pitching minor league games in July, but they were being careful with him, so they shut him down.

 

I also think Dice-k is one of those players that will get significantly better after the surgery. I've defended the guy for years, and I can see greatness in him. He has a habit of being terrible one night, and completely and utterly untouchable the next. He just seems like a good candidate for a person who simply will be better after the surgery.

[a700hitter]

It is 2012. The surgery is a lot better than it used to be. Strasburg had just over a year before he returned to form. Zimmerman had his July 2009, and came back August 2010. Tim Hudson had surgery in August 2008, and was back in September 2009. Marcum had the surgery in September 2008, and was pitching minor league games in July, but they were being careful with him, so they shut him down.

 

I also think Dice-k is one of those players that will get significantly better after the surgery. I've defended the guy for years, and I can see greatness in him. He has a habit of being terrible one night, and completely and utterly untouchable the next. He just seems like a good candidate for a person who simply will be better after the surgery.

Yes, pitchers have been able to pitch around 12-13 months after surgery, but none have been able to return to full time major league effectiveness in less than 18 months. Zimmerman's starts in 2010 were little more than glorified rehab starts. He was going 3 or 4 innings with 6 days in between. We will not have that kind of luxury during a pennant race. Even in 2011, more than 18 months after the surgery, Zimmerman was only able to make 26 starts, frequently getting extra rest between starts. The pitchers that made it back in less than 18 months returned in the final month of the season and they put up 25-40 innings of work. I don't think Dice K will make it back appreciably sooner. We will not have the luxury to give him 3 inning starts or 6 or 7 days between starts, and I would be willing to set the over/under betting on 50 innings. I'll take the under.

[seabeachfred]

I think you have to go into the season not counting on anything from Dice or Lackey. Anything they give is a bonus (a very expensive one).

 

That's the only way to look at it Coco and I think on this score the Red Sox front office is thinking just like you on this. Frankly, I don't see how you can plan any other way. What's that thing about a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush? I would think our plan is right in front of us----get Oswalt signed and go into the season with a pretty good foursome if only we could keep them all healthy for a season as the Rays did with their rotation back in 2008. As for Lackey, you threw me there. I heard he is definately out for the whole season unless you've recently heard something different.

[jacksonianmarch]

All the reports I've been hearing say that he's already throwing and should be ready for June.

 

DiceK has always been a toss up. Now, he's recovering from reconstructive elbow surgery and you're expecting him to be consistently good ahead of schedule? Starters typically need 18 months or so to get back to normal from TJS. And DiceK's normal isnt great to begin with. I'd leave him out of all depth discussions and if he ends up contributing, consider it a bonus