Getting Another Starting Pitcher?

[a700hitter]

I am bored and in the mood to post a silly poll to pass the time. It seems that we have a consensus that we would all like to get an additional established starting pitcher. The question is whether we will get one and when.

[iortiz]

I'm optimistic so... I voted #1. We get Kuroda and a BP arm. BTW Cordero is available, isn't he?

[SoxFanForsyth]

Sorry guys. I think we get one at the deadline, and (like I said in my other post) move Bard from the rotation to the bullpen so that he doesn't make a huge leap in innings in 1 year. That's generally what hurts RP turning into SP, the fatigue that sets in.

[a700hitter]

I'm optimistic so... I voted #1. We get Kuroda and a BP arm. BTW Cordero is available' date=' isn't he?[/quote']Yes, he is.

[iortiz]

Yes' date=' he is.[/quote']

 

Well, he is not Pap or Madsen but could be the solid piece that we are looking for our pen.

[Palodios]

Fun fact: Cordero is the only non-Rivera reliever to actually be worth a big money contract.

[SoxSport]

I would rather see them trade for a pitcher rather than sign anybody still available.

 

Bailey may need some help closing from Melancon, based on his arm history. That would put Bard back into the bullpen. And if you have one of the top three starters going down, you need a good replacement.

 

They have the pieces to make a trade for a quality starter. Apparently, they almost had Gio, so they are probably still looking for somebody with upside who is controllable. I don't think they want to give up Middlebrook for Garza. Maybe they can work something out for Wandy if Houston will pay half his salary. Wandy would be a better pitcher on a winning team. He's better than Bedard.

[Spitball]

BTW Cordero is available' date=' isn't he?[/quote']

 

I think Cordero's falling K rate is the reason he is still unemployed. He had decent numbers last years, but he no longer misses bats. I believe his missed bat rate was near the bottom of the NL list for relievers.

 

He is 37 or 38 and may now be a groundball inducing wizard, but I would only consider him on a lowball one year or minor league contract.

[iortiz]

I think Cordero's falling K rate is the reason he is still unemployed. He had decent numbers last years, but he no longer misses bats. I believe his missed bat rate was near the bottom of the NL list for relievers.

 

He is 37 or 38 and may now be a groundball inducing wizard, but I would only consider him on a lowball one year or minor league contract.

 

I don't see him accepting a minor league contract, but if he accepts a fair 1-year-contract I'll make the deal in a heartbeat.

[win red sox]

In a perfect world we sign kuroda 1/8 and maybe sign Harden for 1/1.5 for depth.

[RedSoxNC84]

In a perfect world we sign kuroda 1/8 and maybe sign Harden for 1/1.5 for depth.

 

I like Harden, especially for depth. Then again, if you want to say a perfect world, we could have gotten Gio for Lars Anderson.

[Spudboy]

I'm still thinking that the Sox swing a trade during spring training. I don't have f***ing clue who would be involved, though. I'd like to see Garza in a Sox uni. The Cubs owe the Sox compensation and Theo knows the Sox minor league players. We'll see.

[BSN07]

Oswalt and Kuroda are too expensive. They won't add any big money until after April to avoid the LT. They may add another low risk low incentive based contract before ST. But I won't be surpised if they go with what they have now and look to make a move later in the season. IMO the Red Sox off season is all but done.

[RedSoxFan84]

I'm still thinking that the Sox swing a trade during spring training. I don't have f***ing clue who would be involved' date=' though. I'd like to see Garza in a Sox uni. The Cubs owe the Sox compensation and Theo knows the Sox minor league players. We'll see.[/quote']

 

 

 

I'm of pretty much the same mind there. Beckett, Lester and Buchholz are great and all, but we really don't have much depth after them. Bard is a nice talent, and I think he'll be a good player, but we have no idea how he's going to handle a starting role. Aceves can start too, but I'd much rather see him in the pen. That leaves Lackey and Matsuzaka, and I know that no one else here wants to be relying on either of them to play any sort of important role. Adding Garza would be great, as it would give us four really good starters, and it would mean there would be even less pressure on Bard to develop quickly. Garza would also bring a bit more of an edge and some attitude to the team, which I would like to see. Maybe having him around would keep some of the other guys on their toes.

[ForeverYoung]

Are we seriously as Red Sox fans not willing to look past this year?

 

I am perfectly willing to accept Kuroda, Jackson, and Oswalt signing elsewhere if it means we can go toe to toe with the Yankees next year for a top of the order SP. I mean do we go over luxury tax and give up on next year's Top end free agents to get a #4 or 5 Starting Pitcher? Or should we piece together a rotation with dumpster picks and prospects for this year and go for a meaningful #1 or #2 to take the pressure off Lester and Beckett?

 

Personally I subscribe entirely to what Ben Cherington is doing right now, we will be better in the long run if we do this. Yes, there are people clamoring to make this year count, but our Offense can make us contenders this year even with a piecemeal rotation. Than next year we lock up a meaningful starting pitcher long-term and a meaningful Right Fielder long-term, than we dominate for years to come.

 

We are in a really good position right now with 2013 free agent list, and we are in a much better position to make those deals by going under the luxury tax and resetting the time for 3 years. This is the new strategy for the Sox, go big for three years, hit the reset button for one year and than do it all again. Look to the long term Red Sox Fans, we have a chance to catch up in the championship race with the Stankees.

[RedSoxFan84]

I hadn't really looked at it that way, but you may have a point. Of course I, and probably most other Sox fans here, want the team to dominate every year, but perhaps saving some money this year may put us into a better position long-term. I think the reason that I hadn't really looked at that option is because outside of the Sox, I only know anything worthwhile about a handful of other players, so I didn't (and still don't) know who is going to be available after next season, and how good/bad they are.

 

I take it from your post that there are some really good options to fill our weaknesses (SP and RF) available as free-agents after next season? If so, I guess it's like what a lot of NBA teams did when they tried to open up as much cap room as possible for the big free-agent class a couple of years ago.

[ForeverYoung]

I hadn't really looked at it that way, but you may have a point. Of course I, and probably most other Sox fans here, want the team to dominate every year, but perhaps saving some money this year may put us into a better position long-term. I think the reason that I hadn't really looked at that option is because outside of the Sox, I only know anything worthwhile about a handful of other players, so I didn't (and still don't) know who is going to be available after next season, and how good/bad they are.

 

I take it from your post that there are some really good options to fill our weaknesses (SP and RF) available as free-agents after next season? If so, I guess it's like what a lot of NBA teams did when they tried to open up as much cap room as possible for the big free-agent class a couple of years ago.

 

The free agent class according to MLB Trade rumors (http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2011/04/2013-mlb-free-agents.html) are:

 

Right fielders

Lance Berkman (36)

Matt Diaz (35)

Andre Ethier (31)

Torii Hunter (37)

Andruw Jones (36)

Mark Kotsay (37)

Carlos Quentin (30)

Juan Rivera (34) - $4MM club option for 2013 with a $500K buyout

Ichiro Suzuki (39)

Nick Swisher (32)

 

Starting pitchers

Scott Baker (31) - $9.25MM club option

Joe Blanton (32)

Matt Cain (28)

Fausto Carmona (29) - $9MM club option

Aaron Cook (34)

Kevin Correia (32)

Jorge De La Rosa (32) - $11MM player option with a $1MM buyout

Ryan Dempster (36)

R.A. Dickey (38) - $5MM club option with a $300K buyout

Scott Feldman (29) - $9.25MM club option with a $600K buyout

Gavin Floyd (30) - $9.5MM club option

Freddy Garcia (37)

Zack Greinke (28)

Jeremy Guthrie (34)

Cole Hamels (29)

Dan Haren (32) - $15.5MM club option with a $3.5MM buyout

Tim Hudson (37) - $9MM club option with a $1MM buyout

Colby Lewis (33)

Francisco Liriano (29)

Kyle Lohse (34)

Derek Lowe (40)

Paul Maholm (31) - $6.5MM club option with a $500K buyout

Shaun Marcum (31)

Jason Marquis (34)

Daisuke Matsuzaka (32)

Brandon McCarthy (29)

Brett Myers (32) - $10MM club option with a $3MM buyout

Carl Pavano (37)

Jake Peavy (31) - $22MM club option with a $4MM buyout

Anibal Sanchez (29)

Jonathan Sanchez (30)

Ervin Santana (30) - $13MM club option with a $1MM buyout

James Shields (31) - $9MM club option with a $1.5MM buyout

Chien-Ming Wang (33)

Jake Westbrook (35) - $8.5MM mutual option with a $1MM buyout if club declines

Dontrelle Willis (31)

Randy Wolf (36) - $10MM club option with a $1.5MM buyout

Carlos Zambrano (32) - $19.25MM player option depending on Zambrano's Cy Young voting placement

 

I think it was last updated on 1-12-11 which puts some names out of the running, but it pretty much is accurate. There are some real game changers on the Starting Pitching and Right Field list, could you imagine the Sox picking up Cain and Ethier? Right now the Giants are trying to make a five year extension, but if that falls through....*Cough* JD Drew *Cough*

 

Even without Cain on that list there are still some great targets for quality starters. We are definitely going after Ethier, since in march he said "a lot of signs are pointing toward his leaving Los Angeles after the season." I see us going toe to toe with New York next off-season over him, so we definitely need some room to spend next winter.

[a700hitter]

The free agent class according to MLB Trade rumors (http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2011/04/2013-mlb-free-agents.html) are:

 

Right fielders

Lance Berkman (36)

Matt Diaz (35)

Andre Ethier (31)

Torii Hunter (37)

Andruw Jones (36)

Mark Kotsay (37)

Carlos Quentin (30)

Juan Rivera (34) - $4MM club option for 2013 with a $500K buyout

Ichiro Suzuki (39)

Nick Swisher (32)

 

Starting pitchers

Scott Baker (31) - $9.25MM club option

Joe Blanton (32)

Matt Cain (28)

Fausto Carmona (29) - $9MM club option

Aaron Cook (34)

Kevin Correia (32)

Jorge De La Rosa (32) - $11MM player option with a $1MM buyout

Ryan Dempster (36)

R.A. Dickey (38) - $5MM club option with a $300K buyout

Scott Feldman (29) - $9.25MM club option with a $600K buyout

Gavin Floyd (30) - $9.5MM club option

Freddy Garcia (37)

Zack Greinke (28)

Jeremy Guthrie (34)

Cole Hamels (29)

Dan Haren (32) - $15.5MM club option with a $3.5MM buyout

Tim Hudson (37) - $9MM club option with a $1MM buyout

Colby Lewis (33)

Francisco Liriano (29)

Kyle Lohse (34)

Derek Lowe (40)

Paul Maholm (31) - $6.5MM club option with a $500K buyout

Shaun Marcum (31)

Jason Marquis (34)

Daisuke Matsuzaka (32)

Brandon McCarthy (29)

Brett Myers (32) - $10MM club option with a $3MM buyout

Carl Pavano (37)

Jake Peavy (31) - $22MM club option with a $4MM buyout

Anibal Sanchez (29)

Jonathan Sanchez (30)

Ervin Santana (30) - $13MM club option with a $1MM buyout

James Shields (31) - $9MM club option with a $1.5MM buyout

Chien-Ming Wang (33)

Jake Westbrook (35) - $8.5MM mutual option with a $1MM buyout if club declines

Dontrelle Willis (31)

Randy Wolf (36) - $10MM club option with a $1.5MM buyout

Carlos Zambrano (32) - $19.25MM player option depending on Zambrano's Cy Young voting placement

 

I think it was last updated on 1-12-11 which puts some names out of the running, but it pretty much is accurate. There are some real game changers on the Starting Pitching and Right Field list, could you imagine the Sox picking up Cain and Ethier? Right now the Giants are trying to make a five year extension, but if that falls through....*Cough* JD Drew *Cough*

 

Even without Cain on that list there are still some great targets for quality starters. We are definitely going after Ethier, since in march he said "a lot of signs are pointing toward his leaving Los Angeles after the season." I see us going toe to toe with New York next off-season over him, so we definitely need some room to spend next winter.

Of the pitchers on the list, which do you think are the top 4 or 5 that should be available. I think the Yanks have Hammels targeted. I also think that the Giants realize that their teams in that ballpark need to be built around pitching. They have been making big efforts to retain their top pitchers. Other than those two who else do you see as a target?

[ForeverYoung]

Of the pitchers on the list' date=' which do you think are the top 4 or 5 that should be available. I think the Yanks have Hammels targeted. I also think that the Giants realize that their teams in that ballpark need to be built around pitching. They have been making big efforts to retain their top pitchers. Other than those two who else do you see as a target?[/quote']

 

Call me crazy but I just don't see SF being able to swing the money to keep Cain, especially when they get blown out of the playoffs again this year by Arizona. He will see that in order to get a ring and an offense to put him at the top of the Cy Young every year, he will have to travel east.

 

So I think we get into a bidding war with NY over Cain, Hammels, Greinke, and Marcum. Greinke doesn't even have an agent yet, so who knows where that is going, I can only hope that he learns from Madson and departs the Boras train. I'd love to make a run at Colby Lewis, but to be honest Texas will re-negotiate this year with him after their mistake with C.J. Wilson.

 

Although the really great news is that with the Angels signing C.J. Wilson and Pujols it puts a big market team out of the running next year. The only wild-card will be the Dodgers with new management next year might go all Marlinsy with the market.

[redsoxbeatz]

Garza!! Not the oldies of kuroda or Oswalt please

[starwarsgeekperson]

I'm hopeing they get one, they have some expendable prospects. Matt Garza, or really any of the Rays or Giants pitchers would do.

[starwarsgeekperson]

Oswalt would work too.

[Tulkinghorn]

I think Oswalt is pretty much done. His back is shot.

[SoxSport]

I think they're pretty much backed into a corner now with the Yankees' sudden pitching deals.

They are going to have to go over the cap a bit and sign Oswalt, or else they are going to take a big PR hit.

 

Oswalt pitched well the last couple of months, and maybe his back problems are behind him--for a year, anyways. $8 mil is chump change compared to the consequences of doing nothing.

[SoxSport]

Garza!! Not the oldies of kuroda or Oswalt please

 

 

Epstein wants a heckuva lot more for Garza than the Mariners got for Pineda. And I would rather have Pineda.

[SoxSport]

Call me crazy but I just don't see SF being able to swing the money to keep Cain, especially when they get blown out of the playoffs again this year by Arizona. He will see that in order to get a ring and an offense to put him at the top of the Cy Young every year, he will have to travel east.

 

So I think we get into a bidding war with NY over Cain, Hammels, Greinke, and Marcum. Greinke doesn't even have an agent yet, so who knows where that is going, I can only hope that he learns from Madson and departs the Boras train. I'd love to make a run at Colby Lewis, but to be honest Texas will re-negotiate this year with him after their mistake with C.J. Wilson.

 

Although the really great news is that with the Angels signing C.J. Wilson and Pujols it puts a big market team out of the running next year. The only wild-card will be the Dodgers with new management next year might go all Marlinsy with the market.

 

 

 

That's why it makes sense for the Sox to sign Oswalt for a year. Next year, they'll be in position to bid for better FA starters.

 

Notice how the Yankees were so worried about the luxury tax they signed Kuroda for $10 mil.

 

Agree about Boras. He's getting to be a liability for clients.

[Spitball]

I think Oswalt is pretty much done. His back is shot.

 

There must be concerns about his back, or someone would have signed him at his current asking price. He has always put a tremendous amount of torque on his back with his delivery.

 

But, as has been said, one year at $8 million seems like he's a pretty decent gamble. Plus, he pitched well in September.

[redsoxbeatz]

Rumors suggest Garza is a trade deadline deal but who knows what happens in their jerry maguire-esque conversations.

 

No rush I feel though baseball season is long.

[italstallianion]

I wish that there were more specific poll options with regards to the quality of the pitcher we pick up. We'll pick up someone like Padilla to compete with a dozen others for the 5th starter spot and leave someone like Oswalt to sign a bargain deal elsewhere.

[User Name]

And you know this how?