Valentine's Big Mouth

[mvp 78]

CC has BV over. Does not offer BV a beverage. BV complains to WEEI. Media freaks out. Curmudgeons on talksox complain that you must offer your boss beverages.

[VA Sox Fan]

CC has BV over. Does not offer BV a beverage. BV complains to WEEI. Media freaks out. Curmudgeons on talksox complain that you must offer your boss beverages.

 

[a700hitter]

CC has BV over. Does not offer BV a beverage. BV complains to WEEI. Media freaks out. Curmudgeons on talksox complain that you must offer your boss beverages.

Curmudgeons have to have something to talk about on a slow news day. It's better than bitching about our bonuses.

[mvp 78]

Curmudgeons have to have something to talk about on a slow news day. It's better than bitching about our bonuses.

 

That sounds like a lie.

 

Now to bitch about the high cost of child care...

[a700hitter]

That sounds like a lie.

 

Now to bitch about the high cost of child care...

My kids are adults. They cost me nothing. That's a boring conversation. I am going with the Carl Crawford beverage story unless you come up with something more interesting.

[mvp 78]

String Theory?

[Elktonnick]

String Theory?

 

Markov's chains

[a700hitter]

Markov's chains

Boy, you guys really know how to have fun.

[Elktonnick]

Boy' date=' you guys really know how to have fun.[/quote']

 

We Curmudgeons have earned the right.:harhar:

[YAZMAN]

CC has BV over. Does not offer BV a beverage. BV complains to WEEI. Media freaks out. Curmudgeons on talksox complain that you must offer your boss beverages.

 

I would invite him over....

 

then offer him some fried chicken and a cold beer...

 

maybe even a sandwich wrap if he were well behaved.

[seabeachfred]

You have to admit that MVP had a pretty funny and sarcastic post. OK, you don't have to admit it, but I liked it and thought it was pretty damn funny. I just hope I wasn't in his mind as one of the curmudgeons who would raise hell over not giving BV a beverage because I'm still LMFAO over it.

[Elktonnick]

You have to admit that MVP had a pretty funny and sarcastic post. OK' date=' you don't have to admit it, but I liked it and thought it was pretty damn funny. I just hope I wasn't in his mind as one of the curmudgeons who would raise hell over not giving BV a beverage because I'm still LMFAO over it.[/quote']

 

Fred at our age I think we've earned the right to be curmudgeons. I sort of identify with Walter Matthau. He is my hero!

[VA Sox Fan]

I would invite him over....

 

then offer him some fried chicken and a cold beer...

 

maybe even a sandwich wrap if he were well behaved.

 

:thumbsup:

 

Does anyone remember when BV got Papi's name wrong during an All Star game? I'll give him break upon break. But that REALLY pissed me off.

 

Didn't he also invent the internet???? Oh that's right .... that was Gore:lol:

[VA Sox Fan]

Fred at our age I think we've earned the right to be curmudgeons. I sort of identify with Walter Matthau. He is my hero!

 

As long as it doesn't mean you can drive poorly and get away with it. Especially in parking lots. Or steal batteries like on Seinfeld.

[YAZMAN]

Fred at our age I think we've earned the right to be curmudgeons. I sort of identify with Walter Matthau. He is my hero!

 

Buttermaker drank beer on the bench, at least last year's squad kept it in the locker room...

[VA Sox Fan]

Buttermaker drank beer on the bench' date=' at least last year's squad kept it in the locker room...[/quote']

 

Loved me some "Boilermaker"

[seabeachfred]

Fred at our age I think we've earned the right to be curmudgeons. I sort of identify with Walter Matthau. He is my hero!

 

Well this thread covered nicely for a very quiet day in Red Sox Nation. I wonder, though, Elk, if what MVP said came to pass. Would WEEI make a federal case out of it? It would certainly liven things up and maybe a few here would weight in. Not us, though. Right??

 

Walter Matthau? I kind of like Peter Falk. Didn't they act together in a couple of flicks some years back? You know they both started out as heavies.

[User Name]

Those who defend Valentine are using Crawford's behavior as a strawman to defend Valentine's. Calling out a player in the media spotlight is stupid, creates a distraction and clubhouse turmoil. Terrible idea. This obviously doesn't excuse CC's behavior, but still.

[Spudboy]

Those who defend Valentine are using Crawford's behavior as a strawman to defend Valentine's. Calling out a player in the media spotlight is stupid' date=' creates a distraction and clubhouse turmoil. Terrible idea. This obviously doesn't excuse CC's behavior, but still.[/quote']

 

Good point. The whole thing does nothing to serve the game. It only gives the scribes something to do.

[example1]

Those who defend Valentine are using Crawford's behavior as a strawman to defend Valentine's. Calling out a player in the media spotlight is stupid' date=' creates a distraction and clubhouse turmoil. Terrible idea. This obviously doesn't excuse CC's behavior, but still.[/quote']

 

I generally find that I agree with what you say. No different here. (that's a complicated way of saying "this")

 

I'm a big believer that these things should be handled in house, because trust needs to be developed before relationships and leadership can happen. What type of trust does Valentine have from his players now? Not much. This does nothing to build trust between them, unless Crawford is a sociopath who likes having his name dragged through the mud needlessly. In that case, it was the best possible move.

[FredLynn]

Buttermaker drank beer on the bench' date=' at least last year's squad kept it in the locker room...[/quote']

 

"Buttermaker drank beer on the bench by buckets"

 

Say that ten times real fast..........:harhar:

[Elktonnick]

Those who defend Valentine are using Crawford's behavior as a strawman to defend Valentine's. Calling out a player in the media spotlight is stupid' date=' creates a distraction and clubhouse turmoil. Terrible idea. This obviously doesn't excuse CC's behavior, but still.[/quote']

 

Not to rehash the whole argument again but that where there is a fundamental disagreement in the facts as to what happened. BV never called out CC's behavior publically. It wasn't a strawman. BV asnwered a legitimate question truthfully. The press and fans drew logical conclusions from the facts aas they were presented.

 

Secondly, always keeping things private may appear to be an excellent idea in theory but not in practice. Would there be this demand for wholesale cleaning house and a new attitude if the beer and chicken hadn't been made public? It's called transparency. Publc disclosure can be a good thing. Francona covered things up, look where it got him and the Red Sox. If anyone in pubklic life thinks their bad behavior will not be exposed publically there is less incentive for them to change. Pro atheletes are no different.

[User Name]

Your point would make sense if Valentine wasn't a new manager who hasn't even personally met all the players. You don't air dirty laundry unless a player's insubordination absolutely requires a call-out. I disagree that Valentine didn't call him out, i saw the interview, and he did. He should've kept his big mouth shut, because all that does is create drama, as it has. Look at the media and fans' reaction. Don't give me that "logical conclusion" line. Valentine created that mess all by himself.

[FredLynn]

Your point would make sense if Valentine wasn't a new manager who hasn't even personally met all the players. You don't air dirty laundry unless a player's insubordination absolutely requires a call-out. I disagree that Valentine didn't call him out' date=' i saw the interview, and he did. He should've kept his big mouth shut, because all that does is create drama, as it has. Look at the media and fans' reaction. Don't give me that "logical conclusion" line. Valentine created that mess all by himself.[/quote']

 

Its just not going to be "business as usual" at the Sox Country Club this year. There is a new boss in town, and he is sending out unmistakable signals that the winds have shifted. Insubordination will not be tolerated; recalcitrance will not be swept under the carpet. If you cannot be a professional in every sense of the word, the fans will know about it too. That should provide some incentive for the few overpaid spoiled athletes to change their behavior BEFORE its discovered that they are drinking beer during the game.

While there is certainly room for disagreement over how Bobby V handled Crawford's recalcitrance, I agree with it 100%. They will ALL come into line or their lives will be made a living hell by the Boston media. The silent treatment espoused by the previous administration is a proven failure. Time to try a different approach.

[ibot2much]

BV contacted all the players...common courtesy. The two that did not return his communication within a "normal" time frame are the two guys who already screwed up big time ---Beckett / beer and CC in dropping that catch that kepot the Sox out of the playoffs. Interesting.

[User Name]

It doesn't matter whether there's a new boss in town or not. Avoiding drama should be one of the top targets of the Red Sox for 2011, and Valentine is not helping. Whoever says this could not be handled privately is letting their Valentine-goggles blur their line of reality.

[FredLynn]

It doesn't matter whether there's a new boss in town or not. Avoiding drama should be one of the top targets of the Red Sox for 2011' date=' and Valentine is not helping. Whoever says this could not be handled privately is letting their Valentine-goggles blur their line of reality.[/quote']

 

Depends on the form that drama takes. I have no problem with the drama that is apparently necessary to get the recalcitrant few to tow the company line. As posters here have pointed out, there are only a few ways to influence the behavior of these employees, whose contracts are guaranteed. They will get paid regardless. The threat of public humiliation is a legitimate tool to use in these cases. Sweet talk in the office didn't work out so well. Reluctantly, one by one, they will all come around.

[example1]

I call ********. The previous administration was the second most successful team during their tenure. Their approach proved, overall, to be successful. You are making too much out of 2011 and ignoring the rest of the data.

 

Your blind faith in Valentines method is concerning and reassuring at the same time. It is concerning because it means we are going to have to hear about the gospel of Bobby V and transparency all season, but reassuring because it means the hiring did what it was supposed to by placating the angry mob who were focused on bringing accountability and retribution for the 2011 season--even if player misconduct wasn't the main factor in the September death spiral. I guess from now on I will just nod and say "yes, yes, Bobby V will whip all of the entitled losers into shape or sit them, even if they make 20m a year. And when those players are back on the field we can all revel in their reformed ways and new personalities, masterfully crafted by the inventor of the wrap sandwich.

 

I'm sure Beckett is done being Beckett and Crawford has lost the stubborn and private sides of himself that made him successful in the first place.

[User Name]

Depends on the form that drama takes. I have no problem with the drama that is apparently necessary to get the recalcitrant few to tow the company line. As posters here have pointed out' date=' there are only a few ways to influence the behavior of these employees, whose contracts are guaranteed. They will get paid regardless. The threat of public humiliation is a legitimate tool to use in these cases. Sweet talk in the office didn't work out so well. Reluctantly, one by one, they will all come around.[/quote']

 

In before Valentine grows annoying on everyone, including people who are now defending him.

[example1]

Depends on the form that drama takes. I have no problem with the drama that is apparently necessary to get the recalcitrant few to tow the company line. As posters here have pointed out' date=' there are only a few ways to influence the behavior of these employees, whose contracts are guaranteed. They will get paid regardless. The threat of public humiliation is a legitimate tool to use in these cases. Sweet talk in the office didn't work out so well. Reluctantly, one by one, they will all come around.[/quote']

 

Valentine needed to try the private conversation first. And he needs to keep them private. He had a "private" talk with Beckett and then revealed the details on the radio while saying he was asked to keep it private. No wonder Crawford isn't calling him back.

 

And if you think it is a good thing to have players pissed off or benches, just remember how things ended with Manny Ramirez. The Sox had to pay a good portion of his salary and move prospects to get anything decent in return while he refused to play and created his own forms of drama. Don't pretend that players have only a choice between playing full tilt or sitting silently while being abused by the media. Other options include but are not limited to sabotaging the team and tell-all exposes about the ten, with plenty in between.

 

There's a reason Francona was PRAISED for his ability to manage the clubhouse. He wasn't an idiot for creating a shield around the team. Most managers in big markets shoot for low drama.