Bobby Valentine agrees ro deal to become Red Sox Manager

[a700hitter]

Oh I know. The area wasn't bad at all' date=' just old. I didn't make it to Sanibel in Sept so didn't get an early preview either.[/quote']Sanibel is great. I love that place.

[SoxSport]

This guy Valentine is phenomenal. Managing is maybe the least of his accomplishments.

 

http://www.boston.com/sports/columnists/wilbur/2011/11/let_us_now_prai.html

[FredLynn]

Connie Mack would be a terrible hire. He's dead.

 

He would still have been a more active manager than Francona.

[wyo-sox]

I found the interview on WEEI with former Mets GM talking about Valentine interesting. Gives me hope this was a good move v

[SoxSport]

Sanibel is great. I love that place.

 

Yeah. Had a place there. Didn't like the single span Bridge Lee County pushed on the residents. I recall last October wondering if the Red Sox players were spending too much time on the beach there. We now know the answer. Can't blame them.

 

Never much enjoyed the games there. Mostly minor leaguers. The Yankee games were loaded with Yankee fans who came over from Ft Lauderdale in busloads. The new park looks great. The Sox must have tons of dough--almost like the Yankees.

 

Expect Valentine will play the regulars a lot more down there, so they can be in shape for April.

[FredLynn]

I don't understand why you would refer to Paps situation in this particular case. What difference did it make. I think the Sox made it pretty clear that they were not going to offer 4 years. So Paps view of the Sox organization does not seem to be relevant here. The Sox were not going to offer 4 years/$50M much less 5 years/$60M and the Phils did. Under the circumstances, the Red Sox could have looked like Lufthansa Airlines to Paps and it would not have mattered one way or the other.

 

While not being a rule Occam's razor is a good guide and could well be applied here...."avoid stacking information to prove a theory if a simpler explanation proves the observations" or "wherever possible substitute constructions of known entities for inferences to unknown entities".

 

Hell use Ells if you want to use a player that will likely be gone because he has issues with the Sox organization because when the time comes I think you will have a very sound argument with regard to Ells.

 

Paps is one example. Ortiz also said at the end of the season that he didn't think he could keep playing for an organization with "all that drama" all the time.

We rarely hear about the offers that players turn down, just the ones they accept. My point is this: if the money being offered by a team that has its act together is the same or nearly the same as the money being offered by a team that is clearly dysfunctional, which team has the advantage? Would a player be more likely to come back to the team that is more "professional" and ask them if they would like to match the offer made by the team that is perceived as less professional?

You need every advantage you can get in this game. As an example, I look at the Patriots. Though they have not won a ring in several years, they are in the thick of it nearly every year. Players WANT to play for them, and they leave money on the table to do so. Example: Randy Moss, when he signed. Others as well.

You do not have to agree with this, obviously, but IMO a sound well managed professional appearing team is how I want the Sox to appear.

[mvp 78]

I found the interview on WEEI with former Mets GM talking about Valentine interesting. Gives me hope this was a good move v

 

Was it Steve Phillips? He's a grade a moron.

[redsoxfan3]

i was in Ft. Myers in October' date=' but I had to rush back home for a family issue so I didn't get to check out the new site. Where is it located... closer to Hammond field-- the Twins complex?[/quote']

 

It is pretty close to Hammond Stadium. It is right by the airport. I live in Fort Myers because I am going to college at FGCU. It is super close to where I live. If you are flying in from the airport, then you just exit the airport and make a right onto Ben Hill Griffin/Treeline (same road, just different names), then head down to Daniels (which is the first intersection you will come to) and make a right. The stadium will be off of Daniels on the left. It is amazing to see how much progress they have made on the stadium. It looks amazing, I can't wait until it is done. It is definitely in a better area than City of Palms Park. The positive for everyone flying in is that it is right by the airport and there are some hotels close by right off of Daniels and I-75. If you are down at Fort Myers for Spring Training, everyone should stop by Coconut Point and come into Johnny Rockets. I am a cook there and it would be awesome to see some other Red Sox fans stop in. Around Spring Training time I see a lot of them.

[SoxSport]

Was it Steve Phillips? He's a grade a moron.

 

Phillips never saw an over 30 free agent he didn't want to overpay for. Plus he screwed around with the help at ESPN, which got him canned--by somebody 2 levels up.

[jete02fan]

Phillips never saw an over 30 free agent he didn't want to overpay for. Plus he screwed around with the help at ESPN' date=' which got him canned--by somebody 2 levels up.[/quote'] though i actually agreed with him at the time, i still thought it was ironic that he would have the stones to criticize Minaya when his screwups were on the same scale..

[Gringo]

Ordway is saying there are OTR quotes from more than one player expressing unhappiness with Valentine being hired....also that some players were told by Front Office Types that Valentine would NOT be hired.....

 

Let the fun begin

[iortiz]

I feel like this argument really isn't going to get anywhere until the Papelbon contract falls apart. That's why I sigged myself' date=' so I won't have to make the same points over and over again to deaf ears.[/quote']

 

I'm not sure if this was targeted to me. I'm not sure what you mean with deaf ears. Are you claiming the 100% truth about this issue with your arguments (which BTW I'm not sure what they are, beyond your sig, sorry)?

 

Just to clarify... I'm just sharing my arguments in the way I see this issue. It is not my intention to claim the whole true in this issue or any other topic treated in this board. If I sound that way sometimes, I'm sorry, it is not my intention, honestly. But still I will defend my arguments when I consider 'em solid, but If I find out that your argument is better than mine, I'll accept it right away, I don't have a problem with that (I have accepted several arguments and changed my point of view when I thought that I was wrong, actually), and again, even if we disagree I will respect your point of view and I won't insult you saying "Shut the f*** up", or "you are a bitcher or whiner" or write in a phsyco way in order to probe that you are wrong with some fancy stats which btw sometimes are bad applied. I prefer to quit the discussion or simply ignore you. I think it is not my style. I don't like it. Hell, What I like the most about this board is that my points of view have enriched with yours

 

Believe it or not, I consider you a great poster, even We do not agree that much.

 

Said that... If you want to debate about this issue (Papelbon) without getting heat or without personal attacks, we can do that. Surly, will be interesting to know your position. Just let me know. In the end this is all about.

[User Name]

Ignore is for pussies. Specially if it's someone else telling you to do it. Have a personal opinion for once.

 

Also, what a hypocrite. Claiming to be a man of peace but taking shots. Bye-bye credibility.

[example1]

Ordway is saying there are OTR quotes from more than one player expressing unhappiness with Valentine being hired....also that some players were told by Front Office Types that Valentine would NOT be hired.....

 

Let the fun begin

 

Bummer for them, huh? Tough s***. New boss. We all have to deal with it now and then.

[RonVermette]

The most interesting thing to me over the last 2 months is how tons of SPECULATION (especially about Luchino) has been increasingly treated as fact.

[User Name]

The most interesting thing to me over the last 2 months is how tons of SPECULATION (especially about Luchino) has been increasingly treated as fact.

 

Yup. I've been insulted by half of this board for saying the exact same thing.

[jung]

Bummer for them, huh? Tough s***. New boss. We all have to deal with it now and then.

 

Stunning isn't it? It took a long time for the full weight of the damage from the concept of guaranteed contracts to finally manifest themselves so completely. Surely the early days of MLB, before the first CBA and the way teams could contractually obligate a player only to one team were unjust at best. However in my view the pendulum had swung completely over to the other side.

[example1]

The most interesting thing to me over the last 2 months is how tons of SPECULATION (especially about Luchino) has been increasingly treated as fact.

 

That's what some people specialize in. The media-fanbase information cycle around the Red Sox seems close to a breaking point. Fans (myself included at times) are chomping at the bit for news, writers are chomping at the bit for readers, so for every 50 pieces of speculative theorizing there might be 1 piece of actual, legitimate news. That's okay when things are good and the main offseason concern is signing players. When its about whether or not the team can survive its interpersonal issues, it is like watching a train wreck in slow motion.

 

I hope that Bobby Valentine is aware of this and is able to use some of his supposed brilliance and obvious persona to buffer some of this s***, shield the team, and let the new leaders on this team emerge.

[SoxSport]

though i actually agreed with him at the time' date=' i still thought it was ironic that he would have the stones to criticize Minaya when his screwups were on the same scale..[/quote']

 

These guys had all that money to spend--and they were competing in the same market as the Yankees--so they have my sympathy. Ironically, all that money may have been coming from Bernie Madoff, as their owner Wilpon, a friend of Madoff, was not one of the clients Madoff screwed. Wilpon is now in hot water because of this.

 

Minaya's comfort level is Latin American operations, and he might wind up in that capacity in Boston.

[FredLynn]

The most interesting thing to me over the last 2 months is how tons of SPECULATION (especially about Luchino) has been increasingly treated as fact.

 

Treated as fact by whom? I doubt anyone who posted their opinion about the inner circle of the Red Sox FO felt that they were posting facts. I would submit that the only individuals treating those opinions as facts are those who interpret what was posted and not the posters themselves. In the end, its pretty easy most of the time to tell the difference between facts and opinions without having to label which is which every single time something is posted.

[FredLynn]

That's what some people specialize in. The media-fanbase information cycle around the Red Sox seems close to a breaking point. Fans (myself included at times) are chomping at the bit for news' date=' writers are chomping at the bit for readers, so for every 50 pieces of speculative theorizing there might be 1 piece of actual, legitimate news. That's okay when things are good and the main offseason concern is signing players. When its about whether or not the team can survive its [i']interpersonal issues[/i], it is like watching a train wreck in slow motion.

 

I hope that Bobby Valentine is aware of this and is able to use some of his supposed brilliance and obvious persona to buffer some of this s***, shield the team, and let the new leaders on this team emerge.

 

Thats actually a critical point E1. I don't see anyone on this team who can lead in the clubhouse in the way someone like Mike Lowell could lead. That role is really necessary on a team and its missing right now.

[YAZMAN]

The most interesting thing to me over the last 2 months is how tons of SPECULATION (especially about Luchino) has been increasingly treated as fact.

 

Lucchino has made a living on manipulation. He's responsible for more leaks in Boston than the Big Dig.

[jung]

I do think that both LL and V appear to be strong willed, opinionated, used to getting their way. At the end of the day, they may both end up happy that BC occupies a spot effectively between the two of them. Not sure how happy BC is going to be about that.

[FredLynn]

Lucchino has made a living on manipulation. He's responsible for more leaks in Boston than the Big Dig.

 

Yes, but thats his job

[a700hitter]

Treated as fact by whom? I doubt anyone who posted their opinion about the inner circle of the Red Sox FO felt that they were posting facts. I would submit that the only individuals treating those opinions as facts are those who interpret what was posted and not the posters themselves. In the end' date=' its pretty easy most of the time to tell the difference between facts and opinions without having to label which is which every single time something is posted.[/quote']And those people will also tell you what you meant in your post, and after misinterpreting your post, they'll declare you to be annoying etc.

[iortiz]

And those people will also tell you what you meant in your post' date=' and after misinterpreting your post, they'll declare you to be annoying etc.[/quote']

 

... and that is exactly the funny part

[Taliesin]

These are the facts. This team has been duller than the fat girl with braces from Junior High since 2007. It's a corporation that is in the business of entertaining the masses in arguably the most cutthroat baseball city in the world. I miss the Billy Martin's. It's what interested me in baseball to begin with...the passion and controversy. It's not polo. Or soccer. Where you want to kill yourself it's so dull. But, it was getting like that, and I found myself..a lifelong diehard Sox fan actively rooting for the Rays at the end of last year, because The Team, was probably the most unlikeable in all my 35 years of watching them. We need a personality at the helm. To say provocative things, and do provocative things. Is it the answer...what's the question. Anything to reverse the front office lobotomy is welcome. Anyone look forward to Tito's Press Conferences? I'm looking forward to Bobby's. It's a beeznus. To quote Pedro.

[FredLynn]

These are the facts. This team has been duller than the fat girl with braces from Junior High since 2007. It's a corporation that is in the business of entertaining the masses in arguably the most cutthroat baseball city in the world. I miss the Billy Martin's. It's what interested me in baseball to begin with...the passion and controversy. It's not polo. Or soccer. Where you want to kill yourself it's so dull. But' date=' it was getting like that, and I found myself..a lifelong diehard Sox fan actively rooting for the Rays at the end of last year, because The Team, was probably the most unlikeable in all my 35 years of watching them. We need a personality at the helm. To say provocative things, and do provocative things. Is it the answer...what's the question. Anything to reverse the front office lobotomy is welcome. Anyone look forward to Tito's Press Conferences? I'm looking forward to Bobby's. It's a beeznus. To quote Pedro.[/quote']

 

Yup. Whatever else this version of the Red Sox will be, it will be much more entertaining than the 2011 version. I am actually looking forward to seeing how all this unfolds.

Sure would be nice if Bobby V leads us at least to first place in the ALE this year. Its a long shot....but it sure would be nice. And the ride will be even nicer.

[a700hitter]

These are the facts. This team has been duller than the fat girl with braces from Junior High since 2007. It's a corporation that is in the business of entertaining the masses in arguably the most cutthroat baseball city in the world. I miss the Billy Martin's. It's what interested me in baseball to begin with...the passion and controversy. It's not polo. Or soccer. Where you want to kill yourself it's so dull. But' date=' it was getting like that, and I found myself..a lifelong diehard Sox fan actively rooting for the Rays at the end of last year, because The Team, was probably the most unlikeable in all my 35 years of watching them. We need a personality at the helm. To say provocative things, and do provocative things. Is it the answer...what's the question. Anything to reverse the front office lobotomy is welcome. Anyone look forward to Tito's Press Conferences? I'm looking forward to Bobby's. It's a beeznus. To quote Pedro.[/quote']Pedro was entertaining, so was Manny and Damon and Papelbon too. They didn't fit with the FO for one reason or another, but the cardinal sin of each was that they weren't pure vanilla, colorless and non-controversial. The recent big money transactions have been as boring as watching paint dry. The only controversial guy -- Lackey has been a complete ******* and he sucks. Bobby V will not be boring. I am looking forward to it.

[iortiz]

These are the facts. This team has been duller than the fat girl with braces from Junior High since 2007. It's a corporation that is in the business of entertaining the masses in arguably the most cutthroat baseball city in the world. I miss the Billy Martin's. It's what interested me in baseball to begin with...the passion and controversy. It's not polo. Or soccer. Where you want to kill yourself it's so dull. But' date=' it was getting like that, and I found myself..a lifelong diehard Sox fan actively rooting for the Rays at the end of last year, because The Team, was probably the most unlikeable in all my 35 years of watching them. We need a personality at the helm. To say provocative things, and do provocative things. Is it the answer...what's the question. Anything to reverse the front office lobotomy is welcome. Anyone look forward to Tito's Press Conferences? I'm looking forward to Bobby's. It's a beeznus. To quote Pedro.[/quote']

 

Well, you should come to Latin America and figure out all the drama about this sport my friend. This is light compared with the environment around soccer in countries like Mexico, Argentina or Brazil. Some players even have death-threats due to their horrible performance. I don't go to the stadiums anymore, it is very dangerous. A lot of People have died out there, mostly if you are an opposite team fan. It's not cool anymore. A lot fanatism.