2012 Who will be our manager?

[FredLynn]

He's a garbage manager who is more worried about his personal image than winning. What does he bring to the table aside from media presence? Nothing.

 

He brings the kind of personality to the job that this team needs. He is also the most experienced person being interviewed, I believe.

[Youk Of The Nation]

Yeah it's like a discussion of 'best US Presidents'. After several gentlemen in overstuffed armchairs sipping cognac finish a lengthy debate about guys like the Roosevelts and Abraham Lincoln versus George Washington and whether Eisenhower was the greatest military president, the poolboy pokes his head in through the cigar porch and says "yo dudes, what about my man Buchanan?!"

[iortiz]

Oh! Benny boy ... You better have figured out a strategy/plan to fill what we really need. Our priorities.

[Elktonnick]

Whether Valentine is the next mgr or not is still be decided. What just happened is more important Lucchino et al just publically castrated their General Mgr.

[jung]

Boy it sure did not take them long to justify our worst fears regarding the FO. It is almost like they could not have done it faster if they had tried.

 

Actually feel a little for BC like I did for Bellichek when he finally got sick and tired of being part of Parcells constant brinksmanship about whether he would continue to coach...if he would continue to coach etc. Remember Bellichek came here just as Parcells was playing another of his games this time about the Jets job and Belichek finally said, screw this, I am going to New England. So he found a way out from under Parcells. BC has been a loyal camper to the Sox at least as much as Bellichek had been to Parcells and BC's reward is a very public disrobing.

[Spitball]

I'm okay with Valentine. He isn't my first choice, but I don't really have a clear first place choice.

 

I wasn't real happy when the Sox hired Francona. He had a .440 winning percentage and it appeared he was more of a ploy to convince Curt Schilling to accept a trade to Boston. At least Valentine has a winning percentage (.510) as manager.

[a700hitter]

One thing is for sure. Valentine will school the fundamentals even on the older guys. He knows the finer points of the game. His problem is that he grates on people and quickly outlives his welcome.

[jung]

Agreed 700. Vals even has that chalk against blackboard voice just to make sure he achieves optimal annoyance.

[FredLynn]

One thing is for sure. Valentine will school the fundamentals even on the older guys. He knows the finer points of the game. His problem is that he grates on people and quickly outlives his welcome.

 

He may not last long. So what? He is the perfect guy to DEMAND compliance with solid baseball fundamentals from this group of spoiled players we now have. Later on may be the time to ease off a bit and hire a more lenient manager; not now. I think he is going to be perfect for the job if he is hired, and I don't much care if he grates on the fans or the media.

[VA Sox Fan]

I'll support whoever they hire. I realize a manager is not the same as a broadcaster but always felt Valentine was an embarassment on ESPN. Kinda of a dolt. Whatever.

[jung]

It would be nice to have a team that could lay down a bunt now and then as opposed to doinking it off their batting helmets.

 

The biggest problem for a team with as many long term big contracts as the Sox have is that those players simply do not have to be intimidated by a disciplinarian. They have their guaranteed money. So any manager has to find a way to get them to be responsive without losing them.

 

Usually the last line of defense for management is the threat of breaking up the team or trading away guys that have been at the center of things if they don't toe the line. I fear that last weapon has lost some of its effectiveness here in Boston though. The only guys that seem strongly attached are guys that figure they cannot get anything like the kind of deal they could get from Boston anywhere else if they happen to be FA this year...guys like Wake and to some extent Ortiz. Other guys that appear strongly attached are not problems anyway...guys like Peddey.

[SoxSport]

What's happening here is media overexposure to the manager search process. This stuff needs to be done under wraps. But that isn't possible these days in a major market.

 

It's unfortunate the newbie GM Cherington is being painted as a fall guy here. But the job of picking the manager isn't the GM's job--it's the guy one level above him. In Chicago, Epstein signs off on the manager, not Hoyer. Hoyer has to talk to the media, but his boss Epstein is calling the shots. Same deal in Boston. The GM is mainly concerned with player personnel and drafting.

 

It's Lucchino's call, and it looks like Henry wants Valentine, as has been reported all along. The clincher may have been LaRussa's World Series success. Valentine is in the same mold, and had very good Pythagoreas numbers with the Mets/Rangers--I've seen quoted in other news groups. That convinced me he's a pretty good manager. He also has a reputation as an excellent game manager.

 

I'm also reading Minaya is in the cards as some kind of GM assistant--probably head of the Latin America effort.

He may also be a connect to Beltran, whom he signed as Mets' GM.

[Elktonnick]

What's happening here is media overexposure to the manager search process. This stuff needs to be done under wraps. But that isn't possible these days in a major market.

 

It's unfortunate Cherington is being painted as a fall guy here. But the job of picking the manager isn't the GM's job--it's the guy one level above him. In Chicago, Epstein signs off on the manager, not Hoyer.

Hoyer has to talk to the media, but his boss Epstein is calling the shots. Same deal in Boston. It's Lucchino's call, and it looks like Henry wants Valentine, as has been reported all along. The clincher may have been LaRussa's World Series success. Valentine is in the same mold, and had very good Pythagoreas numbers with the Mets--I've seen quoted in other news groups. That convinced me he's a pretty good manager--especially with a good team.

 

I agree they over exposed the hiring process making BC look foolish in the process. How does that help anything?

[jung]

As many detractors as he has Larussa might have been the best we have seen at being pretty tough about getting his team to play the game the way he wanted it played without losing the key guys. Larussa's cred was probably as much a result of his early success as much as anything else.

So, it was probably hard not to toe the line as a player without losing the respect of teammates. Seemed to me that Larussa always had a really high visibility ally on the team much maybe like Torre had Jeter and that went a long way to their success as managers as well.

[SoxSport]

A little difficult reading those articles when you live on the left coast Sox Sport' date=' but I guess I could get some of those blurbs from Boston.com. The clues do seem to change every day from what I've read.[/quote']

 

It's all on the internet. Nobody reads newspapers these days.

[SoxSport]

I agree they over exposed the hiring process making BC look foolish in the process. How does that help anything?

 

It's a shame. The guy doesn't deserve it. Lucchino and Henry should have made clear the

type of manager they were looking for. They were talking backstage to Valentine all along the process.

[SoxSport]

One thing is for sure. Valentine will school the fundamentals even on the older guys. He knows the finer points of the game. His problem is that he grates on people and quickly outlives his welcome.

 

Valentine managed the Rangers for six years and the Mets for six years. He lasted a long time for both teams.

[jung]

It's a shame. The guy doesn't deserve it. Lucchino and Henry should have made clear the

type of manager they were looking for. They were talking backstage to Valentine all along the process.

 

They have to depend on Cherington and the people BC will be talking to hoping to sign them will be people that will have to believe that when BC says something he has enough juice within the organization to make what he says relevant. The Sox blew that up as much as anything. Again it is not about BC having the juice to actually hire a manager which he would not have had under any circumstances. However would you believe that BC was speaking for the Sox if he was negotiating with you as a player or as a player agent? LL has always wanted to consolidate more and more power around himself. If the Sox are not careful nobody will believe BC is relevant in any sense and agents and players will insist on talking to LL very early in any process as they will prefer the mouth end of the horse. LL may want it that way but it is a hell of way to run a business.

[seabeachfred]

Yeah it's like a discussion of 'best US Presidents'. After several gentlemen in overstuffed armchairs sipping cognac finish a lengthy debate about guys like the Roosevelts and Abraham Lincoln versus George Washington and whether Eisenhower was the greatest military president' date=' the poolboy pokes his head in through the cigar porch and says "yo dudes, what about my man Buchanan?!"[/quote']

 

No Youk it's nothing of the kind. A discussion about who should be our next manager is open to interpretations from all sides, and all kinds of names can be thrown out there for pros and cons. I happen to want Valentine because we need someone with cajones to chase the children out of the clubhouse and restore order to the team. That means no one even barely resembling FrancoMa should be appointed to that position. We saw what a soft hand resulted in this past September. I know a lot of people personally dislike Bobby and consider him to be an ego maniac but I'd take that if I was convinced that we would have an exciting and scrappy team that would use every weapon in its arsenal next season instead of the dull and predictable station-to-station mantra of FrancoMa and his tedious mutterings of "I DON'T WANT TO LOSE HIM" when asked why he kept certain players in the lineup and on the pitching staff when they sucked to high heaven. In the end he lost the whole team.

 

Now as for the Presidents there is no need to men in overstuffed chairs or overstuffed bellies weighing the value of the chief executives. Take this to the bank....ABRAHAM LINCOLN IS THE GREATEST PRESIDENT IN HISTORY---NO DOUBT ABOUT THAT, NO COUNTER ARGUMENTS ACCEPTED OR ALLOWED. IT'S NOT EVEN CLOSE.

[iortiz]

Out of Ben Cherington's hands?

Red Sox's turn away from Sveum and toward Valentine seems against new GM's wishes

 

http://espn.go.com/boston/mlb/story/_/id/7248252/ben-cherington-seemingly-overruled-dale-sveum

 

Is the master of puppets doing his will again?

[SCM33]

It's a shame. The guy doesn't deserve it. Lucchino and Henry should have made clear the

type of manager they were looking for. They were talking backstage to Valentine all along the process.

 

Its embarrassing.

 

If I am BC I tell them to shove this job up their ass.

 

Same old s***, same old stooges running it.

 

What the f***s the point of a GM if they are just going to do what they want anyway? Think about this......his FIRST important decision as GM was vetoed by Larry Luchinno. If I am BC I walk away from this circus act.

[FredLynn]

Its embarrassing.

 

If I am BC I tell them to shove this job up their ass.

 

Same old s***, same old stooges running it.

 

What the f***s the point of a GM if they are just going to do what they want anyway. Think about this......his FIRST important decision as GM was vetoed by Larry Luchinno. If I am BC I walk away from this circus act.

 

I agree 100%. Furthermore, I would help pay Cherington's fare out of town. He must now know that he is just a marionette in the organization. And BTW: he didn't even get a chance to make a decision. It would not surprise me to see Valentine named manager before he gets back from Central America.

[FredLynn]

Lasorda on Valentine:

 

"He's a fiery guy, and that's what you need. You need a guy who can come in there and show them who's boss. You need a guy, who before every game puts on a face of enthusiasm that can be contagious to the team. You've got to have some life as a manager. You can't just sit there."

 

This is our guy folks. RIGHT NOW this team needs this kind of personality. Yes, he will rub all of us the wrong way at some point during the season, but you can bet that he will demand that his team be fundamentally sound and that they are PROFESSIONAL about the way they approach the game. He will not be sitting with his head so far into his spitoon that he can't even see the game, let alone manage it, like our previous manager. He will be involved and he will use the full offensive arsenal at his disposal. And if Cherington tells him to do something against what he thinks maximizes our chances to win, he will stand up to him. Thats probably why Cherington didn't want him as manager-a leftover from the Epstein yes-man regime.

Good for you Luccino.....hire him now.

[iortiz]

Its embarrassing.

 

If I am BC I tell them to shove this job up their ass.

 

Same old s***, same old stooges running it.

 

What the f***s the point of a GM if they are just going to do what they want anyway. Think about this......his FIRST important decision as GM was vetoed by Larry Luchinno. If I am BC I walk away from this circus act.

 

Why in the hell I'm always agree with you?

 

I wonder whether LL went that way with Theo. If yes, I take out all my accusations made on him and I would tax 'em on LL.

[InfernoOrangeSS]

I have no problem with Valentine being the next manager.

I think people are reading too much into the manager search. BC has been with the organization long enough to know how ownership operates. It's not like he went into this job blind.

Get it done already!

[SCM33]

I have no problem with Valentine being the next manager.

I think people are reading too much into the manager search. BC has been with the organization long enough to know how ownership operates. It's not like he went into this job blind.

Get it done already!

 

Its not about whether or not Valentine is the right guy for the job.

 

They named BC GM, and he interviewed potential managers for almost 7 weeks. For 7 weeks he was trying to make sure he made the right decision. Well, after 7 weeks BC makes a decision, and ownership shits all over it telling him everything he did over the last 7 weeks was a f***ing waste of time. Right after they s*** on his decision it comes out that Valentine, who has met with LL over the off season will be coming in for an interview.

 

Embarrassing if you are BC.

[jung]

Well there is one interesting aspect of Valentine. Nobody has decided that they "needed" him for 9 years now. What, no manager openings for the last 9 years?

 

Actually as long as the Sox don't go backwards before they go forwards, I don't really care all that much. I would rather have Valentine here in 2012 than some other year. If he loses the veterans it will likely happen in the very first year. Since he has not had a manager's job in 10 years and the Sox have grown used to this thing of only offering managers one year or two year contracts with a team option, they can s*** can him at the end of 2012 without much damage if they need to.

[InfernoOrangeSS]

Its not about whether or not Valentine is the right guy for the job.

 

They named BC GM, and he interviewed potential managers for almost 7 weeks. For 7 weeks he was trying to make sure he made the right decision. Well, after 7 weeks BC makes a decision, and ownership shits all over it telling him everything he did over the last 7 weeks was a f***ing waste of time. Right after they s*** on his decision it comes out that Valentine, who has met with LL over the off season will be coming in for an interview.

 

Embarrassing if you are BC.

 

Not saying you are right or wrong, but I never read anywhere that BC chose Sveum. I could be wrong. All I heard was that he came in for a follow up to his interview and wasn't offered at that time, (supposedly, since there was going to be another candidate to get a follow up interview as well.)

Did I miss a story that he was the one BC chose? (Honest question.)

[uksoxfan]

Having followed the Sox from across the pond for just the last 4 years (Hi All!) and having read the forum for a while thought I would finally contribute for what it's worth. It's interesting to see how the hiring procedure works over there. My first sport is football (soccer) and over here everything is kept very quiet until someone is actually hired, although of course rumours will appear in the press as to who's in the picture along the way. So I find it strange to see press conferences introducing potential candidates and what they have to say. That said, it seems that a complete mess has been made of this whole process and that BC has gone down the path of speaking to 5 potential managers, none of whom from the start were ownership ever going to want to hire, effectively wasting 7 weeks. If the remit was to hire someone with more experience why wasn't BC told that from the start?

[Bellhorn04]

Wouldn't be surprised if Theo already had a quick conversation with Cherington. 'How you likin' it so far, buddy...you know, we just might be able to find a place for you here.'

 

Lucchino might as well just take over as GM.