A baseball question for everyone.

[SoxSport]

WARs for Salty vs CC last year: offense Salty 1.3, Crawford 1.2;

defense Salty -.6, Crawford -.3

 

It's close. There is a Wakefield factor in Salty's low DWAR.

 

Crawford's WARs last year, by the way, in TB were offense 5.3, defense .5

 

Crawford slipped defensively as well this year. Looks like a head problem.

[Dojji]

If Lavarnway moves into the starting lineup at C' date=' then your pitching and defense metric will suffer. He's worse mechanically, than Montero. Yet everyone has Montero pegged as a future DH. I see both of these guys doing the VMart thing. Catch 50+ times a year and spend a bunch of time at 1b or DH.[/quote']

 

Then you're underestimating the heck out of Lavarnway. He's not clean mechanically, but he's as talented as any catcher out there and has a lot of room to grow defensively.

 

He's not the short term solution, but we're in a position where he doesn't have to be that either, so I don't consider it a big deal in the slightest.

[jacksonianmarch]

I see. Can you take his dick out of your mouth for one night? The guy has a big league bat. Nobody questions that. His glove comes with major, major questions. Not acknowledging that is ignorant

[Dojji]

u mad

[italstallianion]

Can we put an "It depends..." option for the poll?

[jacksonianmarch]

great post Dojji. No response, so it's a 2 word response. I see. I take that as a victory, thanks.

[italstallianion]

http://i595.photobucket.com/albums/tt38/italstallianion/QSuVR.jpg

[Dojji]

great post Dojji. No response' date=' so it's a 2 word response. I see. I take that as a victory, thanks.[/quote']

 

problem?

[jacksonianmarch]

I have no problem with victory

[Palodios]

If Lavarnway moves into the starting lineup at C' date=' then your pitching and defense metric will suffer. He's worse mechanically, than Montero. Yet everyone has Montero pegged as a future DH. I see both of these guys doing the VMart thing. Catch 50+ times a year and spend a bunch of time at 1b or DH.[/quote']

 

Worse mechanically than Montero? Maybe. Worse mecanically than Vmart? No. Worse mechanically than Salty? Hahahahahahaha

[User Name]

Worse mechanically than Montero? Maybe. Worse mecanically than Vmart? No. Worse mechanically than Salty? Hahahahahahaha

 

Wut?

 

He is worse mechanically than both Salty and V-Mart. Worse than Montero the jacksonianmarch dude probably pulled out of thin air.

[seabeachfred]

If it's Salty, he trailed off badly at the end, which distorted his final numbers. He also started slowly in April--like everybody else. He looks like a guy who can hit .270, 15-20 HRs. .340 OBP. But he needs a real backup catcher to share the load.

 

If it's CC, his numbers won't be the same next year--not with Dave Martinez as his manager.

 

And it better be Dave Martinez, because the prime job of the new manager will be to turn $140M Crawford around. Plus the team conditioning. Forget the beer and chicken-- media fodder.

 

SoxSport, I've decided Dave Martinez should be our new manager as well. Working closely with John Maddon I'm sure a lot of TB's manager has rubbed off on him. As for Jarrod, remember this was his biggest workload in years and it stands to reason he would tire at the end, but he needs to improve his OBP. I think the guy is capable of hitting 20 homers and driving in 65-70 runs but all of this could be a moot point. On the other board I have been talking up Ryan Lavarnway for the past two seasons. I think this guy is the real thing and could put Salty on the bench. At the ver least Lavarnway can DH, play some first and some in the outfield because he has played those spots before. What I may be seeing from some posters, and I hope I am very very wrong, is that they might be hinting that we need to bring back Jason Varitek for another season....NO WAY JOSE, NO WAY!!!!!!!!!!!! He and Wakefield have come to the end of the road and it is time for them to depart.

[Palodios]

Lavs moved to the catcher position only because he was absolutely terrible in the OF. That being said, a platoon with Crawford in LF couldn't hurt anything.

[seabeachfred]

I see. Can you take his dick out of your mouth for one night? The guy has a big league bat. Nobody questions that. His glove comes with major' date=' major questions. Not acknowledging that is ignorant[/quote']

 

If Lavarnway get some good defensive work in during the fall season in Arizona, good tutoring in ST and allowed to develop he can work his way into a decent catcher. The key is getting work behind the plate. He has already shown he can throw out potential stealers, nailing 37% of them this past season. Receiving and signal calling comes with experience. His bat is lethal and it is possible, like Montero, that both could become Mike Piazza types---------terrific offensive catcher and adequate behind the plate. I think he would improve defensively because he is a smart and heady player, college educated, and a good fellow Californian. I'm still not sure who the subject was that Chin Music introduced but if it was Jarrod Satalmacchia that could be passe because I believe Lavarnway will be our catcher within half of the 2012 season. Of course, that is only my opinion, and we'll have to see how this plays out.

[jacksonianmarch]

Piazza was never adequate behind the plate. I think both end up as secondary catchers and primary DHs. Kinda like how Napoli was used in Anaheim, except both will be in the lineup more

[Dojji]

With his bat Lavs only has to be Piazza bad, he doesn't have to be excellent. His bat should be able to carry a weak glove.

 

But it's not like he has a ton of experience and is proven bad. He's way behind his bat defensively from a development standpoint, due mostly to a lack of experience there prior to being drafted. That means mediocricy now, but it also means that what he is now isn't all he could be. He's by no means a finished product, much like Montero (although for a slightly different reason -- Lavs is raw as a catcher, Monty's just plain raw).

[jacksonianmarch]

Lav's is also 3 yrs older. Montero made some strides defensively, and I can tell you right now, the Yankee reports are higher on his D than the sox one's are on Lav's. You dont tell your own announcers that a guy is likely to be a DH in the future unless you truly believe that.

[SCM33]

The whole point with this thread was to make a point by posting a pretty simplistic s***** set of statistics. The statistics were not Saltys to a T, but they were in his range......and that range was pretty brutal. The point was to hopefully show that many fans were blinded by his little hot streak. He was pretty good for a short period of time in the season, but in the end, the overall numbers were bad. The point was to objectively look at his season totals.

 

Instead, another point was proven. No matter how bad overall the player performed and how terrible the stats were in the end, Sox fans are blind to the reality (by a little hot streak) and take offense to someone criticizing a backup catcher.

 

Surprised some of you didn't defend the beer drinking/chicken eating...."Yeah, but its not like they were drinking regular Budweisers, they were drinking Bud Light!!!"....."Yeah, but its not like they were eating KFC extra crispy, they were eating the original recipe!!!"

[seabeachfred]

Piazza was never adequate behind the plate. I think both end up as secondary catchers and primary DHs. Kinda like how Napoli was used in Anaheim' date=' except both will be in the lineup more[/quote']

 

Maybe Jacksonian, maybe not. I know enough about Lavarnway from following him that he has a good learning curve and could develop into a good catcher. He throws very well and he has the ability to hit with good power. Piazza caught for 13.5 years and played only sporadically at first for the Mets in his 14th season and in his last year with the Padres (I think it was the Padres) he hardly caught at all but I always believed that Mike had improved behind the plate because he loved to catch and from what I saw of him out here in Los Angeles he did seem to get better from '93 to '97.

[jacksonianmarch]

He was a butcher behind the dish who was a square peg fit into a round hole. If the Dodgers didnt have Karros, Piazza would have been converted

[SCM33]

He was a butcher behind the dish who was a square peg fit into a round hole. If the Dodgers didnt have Karros' date=' Piazza would have been converted[/quote']

 

He was already converted.

 

He was a 1B in college/low minors who learned how to play C.

[User Name]

The whole point with this thread was to make a point by posting a pretty simplistic s***** set of statistics. The statistics were not Saltys to a T, but they were in his range......and that range was pretty brutal. The point was to hopefully show that many fans were blinded by his little hot streak. He was pretty good for a short period of time in the season, but in the end, the overall numbers were bad. The point was to objectively look at his season totals.

 

Instead, another point was proven. No matter how bad overall the player performed and how terrible the stats were in the end, Sox fans are blind to the reality (by a little hot streak) and take offense to someone criticizing a backup catcher.

 

Surprised some of you didn't defend the beer drinking/chicken eating...."Yeah, but its not like they were drinking regular Budweisers, they were drinking Bud Light!!!"....."Yeah, but its not like they were eating KFC extra crispy, they were eating the original recipe!!!"

 

Unfortunately, you're not objective at all.

[a700hitter]

He was a butcher behind the dish who was a square peg fit into a round hole. If the Dodgers didnt have Karros' date=' Piazza would have been converted[/quote']Piazza had very good hands and he was a good receiver. He had lots of throwing problems.

[SCM33]

Unfortunately' date=' you're not objective at all.[/quote']

 

Unfortunately, I am one of the few who are.

 

Look, I dont want the kid to do bad. I trashed him during the first half of the season. I admitted I may have been wrong about him when he had his little hot streak, but in the end, he finished about where I thought he would.

 

Just look at his numbers, they are f***ing terrible. How can you argue for the kid?

 

Keep in mind, he finished MIDDLE of the pack in a year when offensive catching numbers were down. Throw in the fact hes not all that food defensively, and.......what argument do you have?

 

Name.........OB%......OPS+

Wieters.....737.........113

Avila.........895..........143

Vmart.......850..........132 (would still be catching here, if not let go)

Santana....808.........124

Mauer......injured............

Napoli.......1.046........171

Ruiz..........754..........107

Mccann......817.........124

Ramos.......779..........113

Molina.......814..........126

Montero....820..........121

Posey........756..........115

Ianneta.....785..........102

Hundley.....824..........132

Salty..........737.........95

[mvp 78]

Kinda like how BJGE is in the middle of the pack for rushing yards?

16th last year

17th this year

[Palodios]

Surprised some of you didn't defend the beer drinking/chicken eating...."Yeah' date=' but its not like they were drinking regular Budweisers, they were drinking Bud Light!!!"....."Yeah, but its not like they were eating KFC extra crispy, they were eating the original recipe!!!"[/quote']

 

There a handful of us that simply love our team, and will defend them no matter what. I don't think there is anything wrong with that at all. I don't think there is anything wrong with being angry with the team either.... but I won't necessarily agree with it:lol:

[italstallianion]

Besides, they were supporting A-MURRICAN industries. If they were drinking international beer then it would have been a problem.

[VA Sox Fan]

There a handful of us that simply love our team' date=' and will defend them no matter what. I don't think there is anything wrong with that at all. I don't think there is anything wrong with being angry with the team either.... but I won't necessarily agree with it:lol:[/quote']

 

:thumbsup:

[BigPapiEnFuego]

They need to change the name of this place to Madsox

[3rdManOut]

To answere the orginal question, I would say no.