A baseball question for everyone.

[SCM33]

General baseball question for everyone.

 

If a player hits under .250, gets on base at less than a .300 clip (<.300 ob slugs .450 but strikes out almost times and walks under with over plate appearances they are average to below defensively.....would you want that player in your starting lineup>

[Emmz]

Wonder who it could be! In all seriousness, I really don't like to see Salty out there, I'm not really sold on that hot streak happening every year.

[iortiz]

This is Saltyboy, right? <_>

 

Well, who would like a player with those numbers in a starting lineup ?

 

He could be a good backup and who knows... maybe in one or two years he probably could take the job. Hell, I would've signed Napoli and Salty as a good backup, but Theo wanted to play moneyball.

[Palodios]

Salty is just keeping the seat warm for Lavs anyway. Why argue with a player you're paying pennies and getting league average production out of? We're going to be regretting the trade of Fed-ex, and he is the guy no one seems to be talking about.

[Laser Show]

You know, I kinda thought he was talking about Crawford for awhile there.

[Dojji]

It depends.

 

If that player is a first baseman, absolutely not.

 

If that player is a catcher who also threw out 31% of baserunners, that's probably above average production for his position.

 

Baseball-Reference has him as a positive WAR player. He wasn't great by any means, but he wasn't a liability either, and a catcher who hits 16 homers and can throw out about a third of the guys who try to steal on him definitely has redeeming qualities.

 

The only real marks against Salty right now, are leading the league in passed balls, and the low OBP. The passed balls thing is a problem Tek had at about the same age, and for the same reason (handling Wakefield regularly) so I'm not worried about it, and the OBP thing is fairly typical among catchers (look at Pudge Rodriguez, Rod Barajas, and Bengie Molina, all considered good catchers, none considered great disciplined hitters). And frankly, 31% CS means that in aggregate, teams didn't turn a profit in runs by running on Salty. Which is a good thing.

 

It's not like we were counting on Salty to carry the team anyway. This guy was a reclamation project who turned into a net positive on the team. No idea why you are so obsessed with trying to prove that he's somehow terrible. Throw in the fact that the kid is working cheap, and there's a lot of teams doing worse behind the dish than we are right now.

[User Name]

It depends.

 

If that player is a first baseman, absolutely not.

 

If that player is a catcher who also threw out 31% of baserunners, that's probably above average production for his position.

 

Baseball-Reference has him as a positive WAR player. He wasn't great by any means, but he wasn't a liability either, and a catcher who hits 16 homers and can throw out about a third of the guys who try to steal on him definitely has redeeming qualities.

 

The only real marks against Salty right now, are leading the league in passed balls, and the low OBP. The passed balls thing is a problem Tek had at about the same age, and for the same reason (handling Wakefield regularly) so I'm not worried about it, and the OBP thing is fairly typical among catchers (look at Pudge Rodriguez, Rod Barajas, and Bengie Molina, all considered good catchers, none considered great disciplined hitters). And frankly, 31% CS means that in aggregate, teams didn't turn a profit in runs by running on Salty. Which is a good thing.

 

It's not like we were counting on Salty to carry the team anyway. This guy was a reclamation project who turned into a net positive on the team. No idea why you are so obsessed with trying to prove that he's somehow terrible. Throw in the fact that the kid is working cheap, and there's a lot of teams doing worse behind the dish than we are right now.

 

Excellent post.

 

I'll add to that the fact that it was his first full year in the Majors, meaning that he should get better, specially in the OBP department, since one of the most shining parts of the kid's scouting report has been plate discipline.

 

You can't have an All-Star at every position.

[ORS]

General baseball question for everyone.

 

If a player hits under .250, gets on base at less than a .300 clip (<.300 ob slugs .450 but strikes out almost times and walks under with over plate appearances they are average to below defensively.....would you want that player in your starting lineup>

This is leaving out a bunch of general information that plays a big role in determining if those numbers are acceptable, as others have mentioned. What position is the production coming from? How old is the player? Is there any reasonable expectation for improvement? What kind of salary will it take to have this player on the roster? And, what are the other options at this position? All kind of important stuff, if you ask me.

[SoxSport]

If it's Salty, he trailed off badly at the end, which distorted his final numbers. He also started slowly in April--like everybody else. He looks like a guy who can hit .270, 15-20 HRs. .340 OBP. But he needs a real backup catcher to share the load.

 

If it's CC, his numbers won't be the same next year--not with Dave Martinez as his manager.

 

And it better be Dave Martinez, because the prime job of the new manager will be to turn $140M Crawford around. Plus the team conditioning. Forget the beer and chicken-- media fodder.

[La Munson]

How much he strikes out shouldn't really be in there, a strikeout is much better than a GDP.

 

He was awful in the beginning, and trailed off in the end, but during that middle period he was really good. I don't think there's much potential in him either, everyone goes on hot streaks, Lavarnway should of probably been there from the beginning.

[Dojji]

Lavarnway from the beginning would have been a terrible idea. Ryan Lavarnway grew a lot this year, he wasn't a candidate as a starting catcher in April.

 

Saltalamacchia is a good catcher, easily average or better among American League catchers. He's not a stud, but he's young and effective, with a strong point to his game for every hole. If he doesn't improve, he's a starting catcher. If he does, he still could become an all-star. On the whole he's fine as long as he doesn't actually regress. If we cut him, you can count on 6-7 teams competing to pick him up and give him at least a platoon role on their squads.

 

I don't expect him to lead the league in passed balls next year now that he's not likely to catch Wake as often, and without that flaw, there's really not a lot to criticize. You don't expect your catcher to be one of your leading discipline guys, and a catcher who can hit .250, slug over 15 HR's, and throw out a third of baserunners, used to be the gold standard. It's still not that easy to find -- we've been spoiled by Tek for too long to realize this, but Salty's performance this year is pretty much what any team with a hole at catcher (like we had at the beginning of the year) hopes to wind up with when they trade a bit piece for a young project. Which is what we did to bring the kid to Boston.

 

Far from docking the kid playing time I'm pretty sure the FO is very happy with Salty's return this year. It certainly coulda been a lot worse.

[wyo-sox]

On my mind Salty earned another year to see if he will continue Yo improve, which I think he will. For a young guy like him who has had difficulty getting traction on his career- it may help him a lot to have a major market team express trust on him with the message that "you are our catcher next year, we like what you did last year"

[jung]

Stats can be deceiving. In 135 games there were only 65 steal attempts against Yadi and he threw runners out at a .292 clip.

 

Salty had 120 steal attempts against in 101 games and threw runners out at a .308 clip. 120 attempts in 101 games is a giant total for the AL.

 

None of us would claim Salty to be in Yadi' league as a defensive catcher but it should be clear that only the best runners in the NL (a run happier league than the AL) will test Yadi's arm. Compiling 120 attempts in 101 games is a staggeringly high number especially in the AL. You had some fat lard asses testing Salty. Surely the inability of Sox pitchers to hold runners is playing into Salty's numbers.

 

More than anything though you have to watch catchers catch to get some understanding for their defensive capabilities or lapses.

 

Clearly Salty will get significant playing time in 2012. Maybe some of his receiving issues will improve. Surely that stat will improve without Wake around but to be honest I am not expecting much real improvement in his defensive skills.

[mvp 78]

I like Salty because he's tall an adequate. Also, he'll be replaced by Lavs or someone else soon.

[SoxSport]

How much he strikes out shouldn't really be in there, a strikeout is much better than a GDP.

 

He was awful in the beginning, and trailed off in the end, but during that middle period he was really good. I don't think there's much potential in him either, everyone goes on hot streaks, Lavarnway should of probably been there from the beginning.[/QUOTE]

 

Sure. But Tek was in the way. Kalish should have been up, too, except Drew and Cameron were in the way. Kalish would have been up mid-season if he hadn't gotten hurt. They just didn't have the roster space to carry a 3rd catcher.

[SCM33]

I didnt say anything about Salty.

 

I asked if you want a player who cant hit .250, who cant get on base and who strikes out a ton while slugging at .450 in your lineup who also is average AT BEST defensively.

 

The fact that people are saying "yes" because they assume its Salty is unbiased. That stat line is pathetic, and if you want that player starting in the lineup next year well, then you are content with another 3rd place finish.

[BigPapiEnFuego]

Well is the player Salty or not? We all know it is.

 

Like it's been said already you can't just post those stats and say would you want that player. That's ridiculous. Way more things go into that decision beyond just a couple of stats.

[User Name]

It's nitpicking because he dislikes the player. Simple as that.

[Palodios]

I didnt say anything about Salty.

 

I asked if you want a player who cant hit .250, who cant get on base and who strikes out a ton while slugging at .450 in your lineup who also is average AT BEST defensively.

 

The fact that people are saying "yes" because they assume its Salty is unbiased. That stat line is pathetic, and if you want that player starting in the lineup next year well, then you are content with another 3rd place finish.

 

Fair enough. What position does this player play? That is very relevant.

 

For any position other than catcher, I would say no. A shortstop is allowed to be a poor offensive player... but he needs to be strong defensively, something that your player is not.

[Dojji]

You can't put those numbers out there like that without at least saying what position the guy plays.

 

For a catcher, or a shortstop, those are some pretty tolerable numbers. For a first baseman or LF, not so much.

[User Name]

Salty had a BA under .250 (.238), slugged .450, had an OBP under .300 (.288) walked 24 times and struck out 119 times (close to the benchmark set by OP) and is below-average to average defensively. Who else could it be?

[Dojji]

Well it could be Crawford, but he slugged well inder .450 (nearer to .400) and he's got a good reputation defensively in left.

 

In short, SCM, you aren't fooling anyone, so cut the nonsense.

[User Name]

Well it could be Crawford' date=' but he slugged well inder .450 (nearer to .400).[/quote']

 

He also had 104 K's, well below the benchmark, and he's been excellent defensively throughout his career. He also hit .255.

 

So no, it could not be Crawford.

[Dojji]

Well he could be pining for Miguel Olivo I guess. He had a down year this year but teams keep signing him to start or platoon for them hoping to get those numbers out of him.

[a700hitter]

Well it could be Crawford, but he slugged well inder .450 (nearer to .400) and he's got a good reputation defensively in left.

 

In short, SCM, you aren't fooling anyone, so cut the nonsense.

I don't think he is trying to fool anyone. He's just trying to illustrate that many people got over-enthusiastic about Salty when they were posting in the "Salt is busting out all over" thread. He's not a great untapped potential signed by Theo. He's tall and barely adequate.

[BigPapiEnFuego]

People got over-enthusiastic about him for a month or 2, 6 months ago.

 

 

This dead, decomposed, pile of horse bones needs to stop being beaten.

[a700hitter]

People got over-enthusiastic about him for a month or 2, 6 months ago.

 

 

This dead, decomposed, pile of horse bones needs to stop being beaten.

You are right. It will be soon enough to start beating this horse when they are ready to break camp with him as the starting catcher.

[jung]

This dead, decomposed, pile of horse bones needs to stop being beaten.

 

Actually they should start announcing them that way in the line up:

 

Batting 8th, Dead, decomposed pile of horse bones

Batting 9th, stone handed, overpaid idiot

Pitching today, fat drunken tub of lard

[iortiz]

Actually they should start announcing them that way in the line up:

 

Batting 8th, Dead, decomposed pile of horse bones

Batting 9th, stone handed, overpaid idiot

Pitching today, fat drunken tub of lard

[jacksonianmarch]

Salty is just keeping the seat warm for Lavs anyway. Why argue with a player you're paying pennies and getting league average production out of? We're going to be regretting the trade of Fed-ex' date=' and he is the guy no one seems to be talking about.[/quote']

 

If Lavarnway moves into the starting lineup at C, then your pitching and defense metric will suffer. He's worse mechanically, than Montero. Yet everyone has Montero pegged as a future DH. I see both of these guys doing the VMart thing. Catch 50+ times a year and spend a bunch of time at 1b or DH.