Ben Cherington

[jacksonianmarch]

Garza is gone. Lee is older and costs a ton more money. Peavy is a solid big league starter, maybe not an ace anymore, but his peripherals are solid. The injury bug is an issue, although he came back from one of the most unique injuries ever encountered in baseball and returned well. Also, his injury this yr was a rib fx, which is more s*** luck than anything else.

[VA Sox Fan]

Bumping this one would work.

[Dojji]

I hate megathreading. Megathreading sucks.

[a700hitter]

Who cares about rating a gm? They don't have a baseball card, no jerseys with their names. They don't get hits or throw pitches. Why not root for our accountants and marketing people. I understand that they are the best in the business. Who cares.

[Bellhorn04]

Who cares about rating a gm? They don't have a baseball card, no jerseys with their names. They don't get hits or throw pitches. Why not root for our accountants and marketing people. I understand that they are the best in the business. Who cares.

 

Who cares? Well, I respect your indifference. But analyzing what the GM's do is one of the favorite topics on baseball forums.

[sk7326]

Rating the guy who brings in players is worthwhile - Cherington has done a good job. This is a very hard gig between the fans and his own bosses ... he has to navigate a lot and does so pretty well.

[Youk Of The Nation]

This thread was created in 2011 before Ben Cherington was actually the GM.

[SCM33]

I hate megathreading. Megathreading sucks.

 

No, creating random stupid threads sucks, especially if there is already a thread that can be added to.

 

Threads like, "Ellsbury took a 2 lb. s*** today", "Holy crap, Napoli didn't strike out today" and "Salty is heating up" are f***ing stupid.

[a700hitter]

Who cares? Well, I respect your indifference. But analyzing what the GM's do is one of the favorite topics on baseball forums.

I always weigh about the moves made by the GM. Giving them a grade is another thing altogether. It's like discussing whether the owners are doing a good job. There are no owners or GM,s on the waiver wire, becoming free agents or available for trades. They are not going anywhere. We are stuck with them. Yes, let's discuss their moves. As for a discussion of their grades, they each get a grade at the end of each season-- the standings. Last year he was the GM of a last place team. There's no sugar coaing that. This year the team is in first place. Tkose are his grades.

[BSN07]

I always weigh about the moves made by the GM. Giving them a grade is another thing altogether. It's like discussing whether the owners are doing a good job. There are no owners or GM,s on the waiver wire, becoming free agents or available for trades. They are not going anywhere. We are stuck with them. Yes, let's discuss their moves. As for a discussion of their grades, they each get a grade at the end of each season-- the standings. Last year he was the GM of a last place team. There's no sugar coaing that. This year the team is in first place. Tkose are his grades.

 

This is one of those topics that can't be white or black. You have to take more into account then just the standings when judging a GM/FO. One of the biggest reasons the team is where it is now is because of moves he made during last season. The result was a last place finish for 2012 but a chance to reshape a faulty roster quickly, which lead to the teams current run. By your logic Cherries should get an F for last season, I don't see how you could think that. I'd give Cherries a solid C+ at the very least if I was to apply an arbitrary grade to him for last season.

 

Now if you want to judge the team, then the standings are pretty good measuring stick. There are some other variables but none that I could see jumping them up a couple grades.

 

In the end I agree, this kind of discussion makes more sense for in between seasons. Giving him a grade for this season is like sticking your head in a bulls ass to see if the meat is good, why not just wait for it to get to your plate before grading it?

[a700hitter]

This is one of those topics that can't be white or black. You have to take more into account then just the standings when judging a GM/FO. One of the biggest reasons the team is where it is now is because of moves he made during last season. The result was a last place finish for 2012 but a chance to reshape a faulty roster quickly, which lead to the teams current run. By your logic Cherries should get an F for last season, I don't see how you could think that. I'd give Cherries a solid C+ at the very least if I was to apply an arbitrary grade to him for last season.

 

Now if you want to judge the team, then the standings are pretty good measuring stick. There are some other variables but none that I could see jumping them up a couple grades.

 

In the end I agree, this kind of discussion makes more sense for in between seasons. Giving him a grade for this season is like sticking your head in a bulls ass to see if the meat is good, why not just wait for it to get to your plate before grading it?

To his credit, Ben was very critical of the decisions he made in building the 2012 team. The worst record in 47 years, deserves an F even if his mommy was grading him. He has righted the ship for 2013, but that doesn't mean that 2012 wasn't an utter failure.

[Bellhorn04]

I always weigh about the moves made by the GM. Giving them a grade is another thing altogether. It's like discussing whether the owners are doing a good job. There are no owners or GM,s on the waiver wire, becoming free agents or available for trades. They are not going anywhere. We are stuck with them. Yes, let's discuss their moves. As for a discussion of their grades, they each get a grade at the end of each season-- the standings. Last year he was the GM of a last place team. There's no sugar coaing that. This year the team is in first place. Tkose are his grades.

 

My point of view is pretty close. The team's record is ultimately all that matters and is the primary measurement of a GM's performance .

[BSN07]

To his credit, Ben was very critical of the decisions he made in building the 2012 team. The worst record in 47 years, deserves an F even if his mommy was grading him. He has righted the ship for 2013, but that doesn't mean that 2012 wasn't an utter failure.

 

Ya it was a failure when looking at the standings, can't argue that. Cherries doesn't strike me as the type of person who points fingers when placing blame. He was the GM and they stunk so he did the right thing an took it. Someone of lesser character could have easily washed there hands of it and said hey I was using the cards I was dealt(roster he inherited from Theo and Larry, although I understand there's an argument to be made that he was an asst. GM and could have very well had a significant role in the building of that roster, but we will never know those kind of details most likely so it's a rhetorical discussion), I like what he did better, although it would have been funny to see him throw Larry under a bus haha

[BSN07]

My point of view is pretty close. The team's record is ultimately all that matters and is the primary measurement of a GM's performance .

 

So for last season you give Cherries an F for a grade as a GM? And say for argument sake the season ended today with the Sox where they are, would you give him an A even though one of the biggest reasons the team is where it is today is because of moves he made during his F rated season?

 

Judge the team with standings, judge a GM by standings/trades/non trades/FA/Farm system/Draft

[a700hitter]

So for last season you give Cherries an F for a grade as a GM? And say for argument sake the season ended today with the Sox where they are, would you give him an A even though one of the biggest reasons the team is where it is today is because of moves he made during his F rated season?

 

Judge the team with standings, judge a GM by standings/trades/non trades/FA/Farm system/Draft

Yes the trade with the Dodgers was with an eye toward the 2013 season. It was not a 2012 move. It was essentially the blowing up of the 2012 mistakes.

[sk7326]

What is true I think is that Ben has been appreciably more empowered by his bosses this year than last - that has helped things generally. One suspects the need to trade for "proven closers" is still an ownership desire, but it is a fetish that is not a good trend. But Ben has brought back some of the "good management" that was the norm with this team. This is a hard ownership group to work for - and he has navigated it well.

 

The team's job is about this year. The GM has to worry about this year and the next 5 years (theoretically decade, but job security implies a shorter horizon). Can the Red Sox compete in the longer run due to things Cherington has done - and judging by the farm and the big league club and the relative payroll position (compared to what his management wants to spend) - that is absolutely a yes.

[Bellhorn04]

So for last season you give Cherries an F for a grade as a GM? And say for argument sake the season ended today with the Sox where they are, would you give him an A even though one of the biggest reasons the team is where it is today is because of moves he made during his F rated season?

 

Judge the team with standings, judge a GM by standings/trades/non trades/FA/Farm system/Draft

 

I would give him an incomplete for 2012.

 

I decline to answer the 'If the season ended today' question. It's a pure hypothetical.

[Bellhorn04]

Some people like to go through each individual transaction and assign it a grade and leave it at that. But it doesn't really tell the story.

 

For example, has Ben done a good job or a bad job with the bullpen this year? The truth is, it's still too early to say.

 

Everyone agrees the Uehara signing was a fantastic move, one of the best moves any team made this offseason. Breslow was also a good acquisition.

 

But Ben has also had colossal failures with Melancon, Bailey and Hanrahan. And Thornton doesn't look much better at this point.

 

Overall the pen looks like it go either way down the stretch. The story is yet to be written.

[a700hitter]

I would give him an incomplete for 2012.

 

I decline to answer the 'If the season ended today' question. It's a pure hypothetical.

2012 is complete. There is nothing more to be known about 2012. 2013 is not complete.

[Bellhorn04]

2012 is complete. There is nothing more to be known about 2012. 2013 is not complete.

 

My own feeling is that 2012 isn't even worth analyzing.

[a700hitter]

My own feeling is that 2012 isn't even worth analyzing.

I think the reasons for the worst season in 47 years are worth studying.

[sk7326]

I think the reasons for the worst season in 47 years are worth studying.

 

They are - although some of them are not that helpful (bad luck pre-trade deadline and a ton of injuries).

 

As far as other things - the manager decision, the change of manager, the leaking of the former manager as a drug addict to the local paper, the obsession with the TV ratings ... last year was bad a lot of levels, and it is fair I think to wonder whether Cherington was free to make a lot of those decisions or whether it was the Lucchino/TV Production team that did most of the driving.

 

This year there definitely seems like more of a commitment to letting the baseball staff do its job.

[a700hitter]

They are - although some of them are not that helpful (bad luck pre-trade deadline and a ton of injuries).

 

As far as other things - the manager decision, the change of manager, the leaking of the former manager as a drug addict to the local paper, the obsession with the TV ratings ... last year was bad a lot of levels, and it is fair I think to wonder whether Cherington was free to make a lot of those decisions or whether it was the Lucchino/TV Production team that did most of the driving.

 

This year there definitely seems like more of a commitment to letting the baseball staff do its job.

There was plenty of reasonsand blame to go aroundfor 2012, and Ben is not exempt.

[Bellhorn04]

I think the reasons for the worst season in 47 years are worth studying.

 

I'd say it's been analyzed sufficiently now.

[a700hitter]

I'd say it's been analyzed sufficiently now.

And Ben held himself accountable.

[seabeachfred]

And Ben held himself accountable.

 

And I still haven't fully recovered from that debacle of 2012. Personally I think that season was a culmination of all the misdeeds committed by the front office in those years after our last WS Title in 2008---getting players who had "sex appeal", worry too much about the declining TV ratings, and the miserable meddling by Larry Lucchino who seemed determined to regain the power he lost when Henry gave it to Epstein after his gorilla walkout late in 2005. Maybe the FO decided to let Cherington and Farrell concentrate on baseball this season and let the TV ratings and "sexy" players go on the backburner for all eternity, but I still don't trust Lucchino. He is control freak who really doesn't show s*** about what goes on down on the baseball field and yet is always ready to put his two cents worth into any controversy where he can increase his power. As for Cherington, an "F" with an excuse for 2012 and so far a solid grade for this year, but he has to start trying to get us that top of the rotation starter we will need for the coming years. Somehow he has to find him and right now we don't have one on our staff. We have one who could be but he is playing candy-ass and taking is damn sweet time in getting back in action, almost like he's afraid to fail.

 

We have one who should have been our bell cow but he has been too busy arguing with umpires over balls and strikes and losing his concentration along the way, not to mention his stubbornness in insisting on throwing his cutter that has been little more than a batting practice toss. We also have one we just traded for who could be the guy but who knows. As for Lackey and Doobie, well, here's hoping they can go all the way to the end of the season without coming apart.

[jung]

Hey did you guys here about this? Kalish is on the way to cervical fusion surgery...considered "not career threatening". Boy I gotta wonder about that one. Maybe it does not end a guy's baseball career but how can he play that well after any kind of cervical fusion surgery. I have seen people after that operation and you end up usually with that turn your shoulders to turn your head kind of thing cause you really can't turn at the neck any more.

 

Regardless, talk about a guy that just cannot get on the field...Kalish can't even get off the operating table.

[a700hitter]

Hey did you guys here about this? Kalish is on the way to cervical fusion surgery...considered "not career threatening". Boy I gotta wonder about that one. Maybe it does not end a guy's baseball career but how can he play that well after any kind of cervical fusion surgery. I have seen people after that operation and you end up usually with that turn your shoulders to turn your head kind of thing cause you really can't turn at the neck any more.

 

Regardless, talk about a guy that just cannot get on the field...Kalish can't even get off the operating table.

He's toast. His body is a train wreck.

[Thunder]

Hey did you guys here about this? Kalish is on the way to cervical fusion surgery...considered "not career threatening". Boy I gotta wonder about that one. Maybe it does not end a guy's baseball career but how can he play that well after any kind of cervical fusion surgery. I have seen people after that operation and you end up usually with that turn your shoulders to turn your head kind of thing cause you really can't turn at the neck any more.

 

Regardless, talk about a guy that just cannot get on the field...Kalish can't even get off the operating table.

 

What is cervical fusion surgery anyway?

[Bellhorn04]

Unbelievable about Kalish. Two promising young outfielders, both named Ryan (Westmoreland the other), two sad stories.