Ben Cherington

[ibot2much]

Jeez, we have gone from BC being a doofus to being the golden boy who single-handedly made the trade.

 

The reactions from some people are bipolar---huge highs and terrible lows.

 

Just let it play itself out and we can continue to assess the new players, the Sox in general, BC and LL and not declare that we are now in Utoopia led by the golden god BC.

[jacksonianmarch]

Especially because it's not necessarily true. There's a chain of "ifs" that could see a very good year for the Red Sox next year.

 

The big one is Franklin Morales. I think we can count on Lester and Buchholz to be over their bugaboos -- unless Buck manages to get hurt again. Doubront should be average-or-so, if he can make a jump to the next level (he definitely has the stuff) so much the better, as he is he's at least a serviceable bottom rotation guy. If Morales can be at least a strong #3 starter, then all we need is fill-in guys.

 

The other big question is shortstop. If Bogaerts can come up by July and be effective this team could propel itself quite a ways on the back of that. Until then, give Ciriaco a real fighting chance to hold down the position. Don't throw Aviles away though -- Mike Aviles has the talent to be a really solid utility guy, as he has extensive experience at SS, third, short, and a bit of outfield.

 

If we make solid gains at shortstop, Morales can hold down a rotation spot for 150+ innings of quality baseball, and the catching question sorts itself out adequately, we could have a decent team on our hands as early as next year.

 

"If" all those things go right, then you should also play the lottery and powerball. Lots of question marks means lots of losses, effectively. But the way the red sox were playing with a bunch of guys past or in their prime was getting them nowhere. You might not be very good next yr, but you will also be getting valuable experience for the kids who need to sink or swim in this market.

 

There is a very strong likelihood that Lavarnway, Middlebrooks, Kalish, Iglesias, Sands and DeJesus play significant (if not leading) roles in your team next yr on offense. And I think Webster, De La Rosa, Doubront, Wilson, and maybe even Barnes will play roles on the mound next yr as well. This reset button gives them great flexibility. I think they go through next yr, see who is sinking, who is swimming, all the while filling the holes with players who fit the previous mold. That leaves them with a blueprint that they can execute come 2014.

 

I will be totally honest with you here. The way the sox were playing and bumbling these past 12 months has been very comforting to me as a Yankee fan. Today's move, while very bold and does deplete the sox of big league ready talent, makes me much more uncomfortable. I think the sox are rebuilding on the fly and will be playoff ready come 2014/2015

[Elktonnick]

And the old timer goes with a joke from the 40's.

 

Face it, people younger than you are able to run things now... Stop being a curmudgeon.

 

It isn't age its competence and authority. Ben doesn't have the authority, and quite frankly he doesn'tt have the competence to work this kind of deal. He isn't the type to think this big.

[Brennan]

"If" all those things go right, then you should also play the lottery and powerball. Lots of question marks means lots of losses, effectively. But the way the red sox were playing with a bunch of guys past or in their prime was getting them nowhere. You might not be very good next yr, but you will also be getting valuable experience for the kids who need to sink or swim in this market.

 

There is a very strong likelihood that Lavarnway, Middlebrooks, Kalish, Iglesias, Sands and DeJesus play significant (if not leading) roles in your team next yr on offense. And I think Webster, De La Rosa, Doubront, Wilson, and maybe even Barnes will play roles on the mound next yr as well. This reset button gives them great flexibility. I think they go through next yr, see who is sinking, who is swimming, all the while filling the holes with players who fit the previous mold. That leaves them with a blueprint that they can execute come 2014.

 

I will be totally honest with you here. The way the sox were playing and bumbling these past 12 months has been very comforting to me as a Yankee fan. Today's move, while very bold and does deplete the sox of big league ready talent, makes me much more uncomfortable. I think the sox are rebuilding on the fly and will be playoff ready come 2014/2015

 

 

 

So am i reading this correctly? You actually think that the Sox are depleting themselves of big league ready talent, lots of question marks mean lots of losses, we might not be very good next year and we might have a chance to be competitive in 2 or 3 years?

 

 

Say it isn't so.

[jacksonianmarch]

No, dumbass, you arent reading it right as per usual. The sox depleted themselves of PRIME big league talent. These guys you got are close and are big league ready, but they arent stars, yet. They had to make this move. And yes, lots of questionmarks equals lots of losses. Have you learned anything over the past 3 yrs? I think the short bus needs to lose it's WiFi connection

[Brennan]

No, dumbass, you arent reading it right as per usual. The sox depleted themselves of PRIME big league talent. These guys you got are close and are big league ready, but they arent stars, yet. They had to make this move. And yes, lots of questionmarks equals lots of losses. Have you learned anything over the past 3 yrs? I think the short bus needs to lose it's WiFi connection

 

 

There is really NO yankee site that will take you?

 

And by the way, all the things I stated were DIRECTLY from your post.

 

Try as you may (and always do) you are not bursting our bubble right now.

[jacksonianmarch]

I'm not bursting any bubble my friend. I just force you to look at reality

[Brennan]

I'm not bursting any bubble my friend. I just force you to look at reality[/quote

 

 

 

 

Your invented and imposed reality that is. Seriously, can we have just one day of not getting s*** on at every turn?

[jacksonianmarch]

I invented and imposed the reality that you are the 12th worst team in baseball and will miss the playoffs for the 3rd straight yr? You make it sound like the sox are winners in every way, shape or form in everything. Reality bites my friend. Once you grow up, you'll understand. High school must be tough on you

[Youk Of The Nation]

You know, with a few exceptions (sometimes I try to get in a really good dig at jacko, because he's such an easy target), we generally try to ignore his Sox-related posts. If they are valid, we respond. If they aren't, we might roll our eyes.

 

What most of us don't do, however, is follow him from thread to thread and attack him every single time he makes a post. Okay, you don't like him. We all know how you feel now. Let it go. Ignore him. All you do when you act like this is draw attention to his posts. Yankees fans thrive on negative attention, like misbehaving children or Rush Limbaugh.

[Youk Of The Nation]

Jacko, you too. Just back off and ignore it or I'm going to cover all of your stethoscope earbuds with ghost chile juice.

[a700hitter]

"If" all those things go right, then you should also play the lottery and powerball. Lots of question marks means lots of losses, effectively.

I have held this as a truism for many years. Too many "ifs" means you are not going to be very good. By the third "if" teams are toast in my mind.

[SoxSport]

The reality is the initial phone call from the Dodgers came to Lucchino. That tells you something about who is running the show. Cherington and the front office probably had the job of sorting out the prospects, though that writer on the LA Times had the trade personnel on Thursday nite, before it was made. Also, Chad Finn tweeted Thurs nite something big was in the works, and I posted it here.

That LA Times guy may have gotten the goods when they were working on it. Hard to see how he would have guessed all the prospects right, except Dejesus-- a minor piece.

 

 

I think this deal was in the works for longer than meets the eye. All the waivers were done to set up the deal.

[Elktonnick]

The reality is the initial phone call from the Dodgers came to Lucchino. That tells you something about who is running the show. Cherington and the front office probably had the job of sorting out the prospects, though that writer on the LA Times had the trade personnel on Thursday nite, before it was made. Also, Chad Finn tweeted Thurs nite something big was in the works, and I posted it here.

That LA Times guy may have gotten the goods when they were working on it. Hard to see how he would have guessed all the prospects right, except Dejesus-- a minor piece.

 

 

I think this deal was in the works for longer than meets the eye. All the waivers were done to set up the deal.

 

Thank you for agtreeing to what I posted earlier. Kasten and Lucchino go way back. Cherrington simply doesn't have the contacts or experience to make this type of deal happen. To paraphrase one our young and intemperate fellow posters this is deal that the grey beards had to work out.

[SoxSport]

The media is saying the Red sox are much weaker without AdGon and Crawford. A case of conventional wisdom. In reality, Crawford stunk last year, was not available 1st half this year; Adgon stunk 2nd half last year and first half this year. And the Sox still were one of the top hitting teams. Neither was a major factor, in my view. Pitching was a much more important factor, and Beckett had a big negative effect this year.

 

I think they were better off not getting AdGon and Crawford. A pity they still don't have Youkilis. He got kicked off first base in a huge Epstein mistake. Maybe they'll get him back next year.

 

Remember when the media annointed the Red Sox when they got Crawford and AdGon last year? Don't listen to them. They follow the money. Now they're gushing over the Dodgers, who are over a barrel financially.

[SoxSport]

Thank you for agtreeing to what I posted earlier. Kasten and Lucchino go way back. Cherrington simply doesn't have the contacts or experience to make this type of deal happen. To paraphrase one our young and intemperate fellow posters this is deal that the grey beards had to work out.

 

Right. Kasten-Lucchino. President levels.

[Palodios]

"If" all those things go right, then you should also play the lottery and powerball. Lots of question marks means lots of losses, effectively. But the way the red sox were playing with a bunch of guys past or in their prime was getting them nowhere. You might not be very good next yr, but you will also be getting valuable experience for the kids who need to sink or swim in this market.

 

There is a very strong likelihood that Lavarnway, Middlebrooks, Kalish, Iglesias, Sands and DeJesus play significant (if not leading) roles in your team next yr on offense. And I think Webster, De La Rosa, Doubront, Wilson, and maybe even Barnes will play roles on the mound next yr as well. This reset button gives them great flexibility. I think they go through next yr, see who is sinking, who is swimming, all the while filling the holes with players who fit the previous mold. That leaves them with a blueprint that they can execute come 2014.

 

I will be totally honest with you here. The way the sox were playing and bumbling these past 12 months has been very comforting to me as a Yankee fan. Today's move, while very bold and does deplete the sox of big league ready talent, makes me much more uncomfortable. I think the sox are rebuilding on the fly and will be playoff ready come 2014/2015

 

 

I agree with your assessment. It always surprises me how people so often ignore reason because you're a Yankees fan.

 

It will be tough for the Red Sox to compete, but that being said, look at how much the Red Sox dump in salary. Not only do they dump 60 million per year, they also lose about 40 million more deadweight on top of that in Dicek, Jenks, Youk, and 15 million more is going to Ortiz.

 

They could actually sign Hamilton, Greinke, and Napoli, and potentially still be under the luxury tax. Not really a great idea, but that also means they could sign good-great impact players on 10/1 deals. Look at how big an impact Kuroda has had on the Yankees. Jackson, Ross, Scutaro, etc etc. As long as they don't turtle, they'll have significant room to operate.

[jung]

Well if it is a question of just being a stronger team, the Sox "probably" are a better team with Agons and Crawford. However they are a weaker baseball organization with them as they simply cost way to much money for the contributions that they make. Crawford was going to end up basically with two wasted years out of a seven year contract and was never going to be a player that the Sox could utilize fully. He stands a much better chance of flourishing with the Dodgers. Agons had produced much more in the way of numbers since coming out of his slump and has somewhat better power numbers of late. However he still seemed lacking in power with no guarantees of that improving and had really been a disappointment in big moments. Now he has not only been failing in big moments but has looked completely lost in big moments, having terrible at bats, even now, on the other side of his slump. Frankly, I could almost be satisfied with his power numbers at least with what he has shown in the last five weeks or so. However I can't take these power numbers and the complete mess he is in big moments, late in games when the Sox really need a contribution from him. That combination is deadly when you bang it up against $21M per.

[SCM33]

Ive noticed many posters to be quite hard on him.

 

Can we at least give the guy a chance? Hes only been the real GM for a few short months. LL and Theo put together that mess last year.

 

So far, BC managed to wipe the slate clean of the prior regimes mistakes. Lets at least give him credit for that.

[iortiz]

Ive noticed many posters to be quite hard on him.

 

Can we at least give the guy a chance? Hes only been the real GM for a few short months. LL and Theo put together that mess last year.

 

So far, BC managed to wipe the slate clean of the prior regimes mistakes. Lets at least give him credit for that.

 

He could have brought SPs last season, and he didn't.

 

...but fair enough... lets wait... again!

[SCM33]

He could have brought SPs last season, and he didn't.

 

...but fair enough... lets wait... again!

 

LL ran that team. LL picked the manager. LL/JH didn't allow BC to spend any money. LL didn't allow BC to make any trades to improve the team.

 

By the time LL relinquished his stranglehold, the team had zero playoff hopes.

[iortiz]

LL ran that team. LL picked the manager. LL/JH didn't allow BC to spend any money. LL didn't allow BC to make any trades to improve the team.

 

By the time LL relinquished his stranglehold, the team had zero playoff hopes.

 

I do not care about the name because we do not really know who is running this team... I said BC since he is our GM and is supposed to manage our baseball operations... apparently he was/is a puppet... The important thing is that our FO (put the name you want) has been dysfunctional and horrible, say the last 4 years. IMO the cancer still there. I said that we had to clean up our FO in order to rebuild our team for real getting rid of LL and Co. and bringing a guy like Friedman. Didn't happen. Hopefully I'm wrong SCM...

[SCM33]

I do not care about the name because we do not really know who is running this team... I said BC since he is our GM and is supposed to manage our baseball operations... apparently he was/is a puppet... The important thing is that our FO (put the name you want) has been dysfunctional and horrible, say the last 4 years. IMO the cancer still there. I said that we had to clean up our FO in order to rebuild our team for real getting rid of LL and Co. and bringing a guy like Friedman. Didn't happen. Hopefully I'm wrong SCM...

 

Lets give BC a chance first.

 

Thus far, its been Ben Cherrington's name and face in the press this offseason. We haven't heard a word from that idiot Lucchino. As long as it stays that way, we may have a shot at improving.

[a700hitter]

I do not care about the name because we do not really know who is running this team... I said BC since he is our GM and is supposed to manage our baseball operations... apparently he was/is a puppet... The important thing is that our FO (put the name you want) has been dysfunctional and horrible, say the last 4 years. IMO the cancer still there. I said that we had to clean up our FO in order to rebuild our team for real getting rid of LL and Co. and bringing a guy like Friedman. Didn't happen. Hopefully I'm wrong SCM...

I agree with you. It doesn't matter to me if it is LL or Cherries who is calling the shots. I just want to start seeing some moves to get this franchise back to respectability and eventually to prominence. If people want to defend Cherries by calling him a puppet, fine, but I can't think of a bigger slam than being called a puppet.

[SCM33]

I agree with you. It doesn't matter to me if it is LL or Cherries who is calling the shots. I just want to start seeing some moves to get this franchise back to respectability and eventually to prominence. If people want to defend Cherries by calling him a puppet, fine, but I can't think of a bigger slam than being called a puppet.

 

That is BC's fault how?????

 

What was he supposed to do last year when he was the GM in title only?

 

I am the most unlikely talksox member here to begin making excuses for that disaster, but you are just being unfair to him.

 

Let him attempt to do his job first.

[iortiz]

That is BC's fault how?????

What was he supposed to do last year when he was the GM in title only?

 

I am the most unlikely talksox member here to begin making excuses for that disaster, but you are just being unfair to him.

 

Let him attempt to do his job first.

 

How? Let other/s make what he was supposed to do. You need balls here. Leadership.

 

But Fair enough... lets wait what our FO/BC/LL/LL-BC... do

[SCM33]

How? Let other/s make what he was supposed to do. You need balls here. Leadership.

 

But Fair enough... lets wait what our FO/BC/LL/LL-BC... do

 

You clearly never worked at a state job or for a big business. If you had, you would know that his duties last year.....were to shut his mouth and smile, and if he didn't, they would replace him.

 

Also, clearly...you still don't understand that BC was not the GM last year.

 

HE WAS NOT ALLOWED TO DO HIS JOB LAST YEAR.

 

Lets give him until spring training at least.

[a700hitter]

You clearly never worked at a state job or for a big business. If you had, you would know that his duties last year.....were to shut his mouth and smile, and if he didn't, they would replace him.

 

Also, clearly...you still don't understand that BC was not the GM last year.

 

HE WAS NOT ALLOWED TO DO HIS JOB LAST YEAR.

 

Lets give him until spring training at least.

You are putting a bigger slam on Cherries than any of us. Calling him a stooge and a puppet is not exactly a compliment.

[SCM33]

You are putting a bigger slam on Cherries than any of us. Calling him a stooge and a puppet is not exactly a compliment.

 

Nope.

 

I said he wasn't allowed to do his job last year. How is that his fault?

 

You are judging his performance based on a month. Did you forget that he found a team stupid enough to get rid of that cancer Beckett, Crawford and Gonzalez as well?

[iortiz]

You clearly never worked at a state job or for a big business. If you had, you would know that his duties last year.....were to shut his mouth and smile, and if he didn't, they would replace him.

 

Also, clearly...you still don't understand that BC was not the GM last year.

 

HE WAS NOT ALLOWED TO DO HIS JOB LAST YEAR.

 

Lets give him until spring training at least.

Exactly... when a real manager/director/CEO/leader arrives to an organization shows precisely that... leadership, and do not let other/s do what is supposed to be his job...MANAGE/RUN!... you said that last year he was a puppet, fine!... As I said, I have no idea who was/is running this team SCM33, but that is not the point. The point is that our FO has to be capable to put at least a legit WC contender team this year, regardless there are 2 WCs.

 

I'm agree with you, lets wait.