2011-2012 Offseason Thread

[Bellhorn04]

I do not want to start a fight' date=' but right now, do you really think that we are above NY, TEX, LAA and DET on paper?... IMO, right now and going like this, at very most, I see this team fighting with TB for the 5,6 spot in the AL. :dunno:[/quote']

 

Hey, it'll be fun, we'll be the scrappy underdogs with the $180 million payroll.

[jacksonianmarch]

Also, the bruising offense isnt enough to carry in the AL East. Especially with the projected 6-9 of the lineup. There isnt much upside there unless Crawford is able to come back completely healthy and back to his 2010 level of production. As it stands, he's projected to miss at least the first month of the season with the wrist issue and it was an operative wrist injury. No guarantees he bounced right back

[Elktonnick]

Buccholtz getting injured again is a real plausibility. Orel Hershiser commented more than once about his delivery and others opined that the stress fracture was a result of increase strain on his back by weight gained to help him last a full season. So I suspect they will be watching Buccholtz very carefully.

 

Remember he didn't have a particularly good ST last year. He was unable to go long in games last April because he wasn't properly stretched out. I for one will be surprised if Buccholtz makes through to July without missing a few starts due to the Sox being cautious if nothing else.

[iortiz]

One of the two sides will have to get creative for Roy Oswalt to land with the Cardinals, says Ken Rosenthal of FOX Sports. He says the team's motives are unclear as well, noting that St. Louis recently checked in on Edwin Jackson.

 

More from Durrett, as he writes that Rangers pitcher Matt Harrison isn't concerned about hearing Roy Oswalt's name being connected to the club. Harrison would likely be bumped out of the rotation if Texas signs the veteran, but Harrison says that he's okay with moving to the bullpen.

 

[RedSoxfanforlife305]

Ah' date=' I'm a ways bit east, in Westhampton.[/quote']

 

You forgot the Yankees in your sig.

[mvp 78]

I do not want to start a fight' date=' but right now, do you really think that we are above NY, TEX, LAA and DET on paper?... IMO, right now and going like this, at very most, I see this team fighting with TB for the 5,6 spot in the AL. :dunno:[/quote']

 

And what were the 2011 Sox on paper at 4/1?

[SoxSport]

Cafardo says in his Globe column today an AL GM told him he thought the Sox would get a "significant" player from the Cubs, because Selig wants to discourage MLB executives switching teams before their contracts are up.

[SoxSport]

Buccholtz getting injured again is a real plausibility. Orel Hershiser commented more than once about his delivery and others opined that the stress fracture was a result of increase strain on his back by weight gained to help him last a full season. So I suspect they will be watching Buccholtz very carefully.

 

Remember he didn't have a particularly good ST last year. He was unable to go long in games last April because he wasn't properly stretched out. I for one will be surprised if Buccholtz makes through to July without missing a few starts due to the Sox being cautious if nothing else.

 

I get the impression the Red Sox tinker too much with their pitchers, sometimes with counter-productive results.

 

I also think it's possible their strict pitch limit approach results in unnecessarily lower innings for their starters and more wear and tear on the bullpen.

[User Name]

I don't have a bias. Believe whatever you want to, but I sure don't. There has been plenty of times I've agreed with you, and plenty of times I have not. I don't try to stir anything up at all, and I certainly don't have negative views. That negative view s*** is just something you made up right now. For an example of this you can go back and look at my posts from the regular season and see how many times I disagreed with a700 and clashed with him, yet now I pretty much I agree with him.

 

And there is no solution because there is no problem. At least there isn't a problem for the people on this board who like to discuss things without getting so disgruntled over what others believe.

 

And no, I won't tell you to shut the f*** up or any of that garbage because I won't stoop to the same level you have of calling people idoits or acting condescending just because I don't agree. Believe whatever you want, that is fine, but stop getting on people's ass and acting pretentious just because they think differently than you.

 

Whatever brah. Just think about how you're always calling out people you disagree with, even if they're respectful posters like E1. Unsurprisingly, only posters who pull off this same crap agree with you. No bias? Gimme a break.

 

Also, get off my nuts.

[SoxSport]

Worst case scenario:

 

Buchholz goes down with back pain again. Miller takes the ball in his place. Miller puts up a 5 ERA, while only being able to strike out Josh Hamilton, and no one else.

 

Beckett hyperextends his knee before the AS break, Silva takes the ball in his place.

 

Bard manages to go 90 innings before starting to complain about elbow stiffness.

 

Padilla beans every Yankees batter in the lineup in the first inning of his first start against them, and subsequently gets into a fist fight with Bobby V.

 

David Ortiz forgets how to hit LHP, and puts up another lackluster season.

 

Carl Crawford gets upset because Terry Francona criticizes his batting stance on baseball tonight, he soon after is on the DL with a vagina sprain.

 

Matt Albers has a great first half, but then he remembers that he's Matt Albers.

 

am i missing anything yet?

 

One correction: Make that 'groin' strain. Everything else looks achievable.

[User Name]

I get the impression the Red Sox tinker too much with their pitchers, sometimes with counter-productive results.

 

I also think it's possible their strict pitch limit approach results in unnecessarily lower innings for their starters and more wear and tear on the bullpen.

 

The Red Sox have the same approach to pitch counts as almost every other team in baseball. You keep mentioning this, but it's really not accurate.

[a700hitter]

Chances are they will bring up one of the retreads, I'm assuming it will be Padilla since he seems to have the most upside out of the bunch, that or maybe they give someone like Tazawa a shot, which I would like to see actually. I wouldn't be surprised to see guys like him or Bowden on the roster later.. perhaps only in a bullpen capacity, but nonetheless, I wouldn't be surprised either way.

 

As long as we don't have Miller out there every fifth day, it might not be so bad.

I keep forgetting about Tazawa since he got the surgery. Pre-op, I thought he had decent command and stuff with the potential to be a back of the rotation guy. He should be fully healthy by Spring training as he was back pitching in 2011. He's at a crossroads in his career at this point. If he doesn't step up to the next level this year or next, its sayonara for him.

 

This is something else I don't understand. I know a lot of you want to be completely serious while talking baseball' date=' but I just don't understand how the nicknames and such are really all that annoying.. They are silly and corny, but that just seems to be part of SBF's character. I see he gets really emotional on occasion and sometimes says some off the wall things, but he's entitled to his opinion, as are the rest of us... I know it's others opinion that the nicknames keep him from being taken seriously, but I'm sure there are much bigger things around here to worry about..[/quote']I just don't understand why people are so intent on changing someone's posting style. :dunno:

[SoxSport]

I suspect he will still be a FA by Monday. Oswalt seems to be having such a hard time finding a place and a price he likes it seems to me that he is likely to at least hear what Texas has to say. Heck it is a day or two at this point.

 

He wants to be a starter for Texas or St Louis, but neither team has room for him.

He could wind up back in Houston. The rumors say the Red Sox have withdrawn their offer, so they may not be an option. At his age, and with his health concerns, he can't be too picky.

 

I think the Sox should just sit tight, and see if any of that mud they've signed sticks to the wall.

[a700hitter]

Worst case scenario:

 

Buchholz goes down with back pain again. Miller takes the ball in his place. Miller puts up a 5 ERA, while only being able to strike out Josh Hamilton, and no one else.

 

Beckett hyperextends his knee before the AS break, Silva takes the ball in his place.

 

Bard manages to go 90 innings before starting to complain about elbow stiffness.

 

Padilla beans every Yankees batter in the lineup in the first inning of his first start against them, and subsequently gets into a fist fight with Bobby V.

 

David Ortiz forgets how to hit LHP, and puts up another lackluster season.

 

Carl Crawford gets upset because Terry Francona criticizes his batting stance on baseball tonight, he soon after is on the DL with a vagina sprain.

 

Matt Albers has a great first half, but then he remembers that he's Matt Albers.

 

am i missing anything yet?

This is very funny.

[User Name]

Worst case scenario:

 

Buchholz goes down with back pain again. Miller takes the ball in his place. Miller puts up a 5 ERA, while only being able to strike out Josh Hamilton, and no one else.

 

Beckett hyperextends his knee before the AS break, Silva takes the ball in his place.

 

Bard manages to go 90 innings before starting to complain about elbow stiffness.

 

Padilla beans every Yankees batter in the lineup in the first inning of his first start against them, and subsequently gets into a fist fight with Bobby V.

David Ortiz forgets how to hit LHP, and puts up another lackluster season.

 

Carl Crawford gets upset because Terry Francona criticizes his batting stance on baseball tonight, he soon after is on the DL with a vagina sprain.

 

Matt Albers has a great first half, but then he remembers that he's Matt Albers.

 

am i missing anything yet?

 

Is this actually a bad thing?

[a700hitter]

I do not want to start a fight' date=' but right now, do you really think that we are above NY, TEX, LAA and DET on paper?... IMO, right now and going like this, at very most, I see this team fighting with TB for the 5,6 spot in the AL. :dunno:[/quote']We saw what happens to a team with no 4th or 5th starters last year. It deteriorates and eventually breaks the back of your team.

[User Name]

This is something else I don't understand. I know a lot of you want to be completely serious while talking baseball, but I just don't understand how the nicknames and such are really all that annoying.. They are silly and corny, but that just seems to be part of SBF's character. I see he gets really emotional on occasion and sometimes says some off the wall things, but he's entitled to his opinion, as are the rest of us... I know it's others opinion that the nicknames keep him from being taken seriously, but I'm sure there are much bigger things around here to worry about..

 

Well it's their opinion.....which people are entitled to.

[a700hitter]

Ah' date=' I'm a ways bit east, in Westhampton.[/quote']Close to Carl Yastrzemski's hometown.

[FredLynn]

This is very funny.

 

Yeah.

That WOULD be very funny if it weren't so plausible.

But we have nothing to worry about. Matsusaka will probably be back to save the day in midseason. Our pitching will be fine with Lester-Matsusaka-Miller-Silva-Padilla.

Right? Did I forget anyone?

[User Name]

Weren't you saying they need to forget about this year and get marquee pitchers this year? Re-building?

[a700hitter]

And what were the 2011 Sox on paper at 4/1?

They were very good on paper as of 4/1/2011. If Dice K and Buchholz and Lackey had stayed healthy, the team probably would have gone very far. We saw what happens to a team when it only has three starters. It crashes and burns. It is impossible to hold together a staff with two black holes at the end of the rotation. We know what happens in that situation. Looking forward to 2012, if we don't get another starter, we are going to start the season with 2 guys in the rotation that have never started in the major leagues and have no record of success as starters in professional ball. This has the potential to turn very bad.

[FredLynn]

Weren't you saying they need to forget about this year and get marquee pitchers this year? Re-building?

 

I never said otherwise-except if they are already over budget and are penny pinching without obtaining a quality SP. Top goal=staying under the cap. If they are already over it, go for Oswalt or Jackson or trade for a good SP.

[a700hitter]

He wants to be a starter for Texas or St Louis, but neither team has room for him.

He could wind up back in Houston. The rumors say the Red Sox have withdrawn their offer, so they may not be an option. At his age, and with his health concerns, he can't be too picky.

 

I think the Sox should just sit tight, and see if any of that mud they've signed sticks to the wall.

The guys we have signed don't even make it to the level of mud. Signing John Maine is a complete joke. The Mets, who completely suck, will not even touch this guy. The last time i saw him they had to pull him off the Mets mound, because he couldn't top 84. He said that his arm was sound. I can't see upside here at all. Whatever they are giving him would have been put to better use making a charitable donation. The same goes for the rest of the crew of Silva, Cook and Padilla. I give Padilla an outside chance of having a short period of usefulness.

[User Name]

I never said otherwise-except if they are already over budget and are penny pinching without obtaining a quality SP. Top goal=staying under the cap. If they are already over it' date=' go for Oswalt or Jackson or trade for a good SP.[/quote']

 

If they are already over it. There's too much contradicting evidence about the subject. Per the calculations you and the article you posted made, they are under after the Scutaro trade.

 

Even if they are under that cap, they should get a starter that would allow them to stay under it IMO, even if they have to do it during midseason to minimize the cap hit.

[a700hitter]

I never said otherwise-except if they are already over budget and are penny pinching without obtaining a quality SP. Top goal=staying under the cap. If they are already over it' date=' go for Oswalt or Jackson or trade for a good SP.[/quote']Reports are saying that they are over the cap already, so I agree they should go for it. They are not going to land Oswalt with $5 million. They apparently will have to pay a premium to lock him down.

[Palodios]

They were very good on paper as of 4/1/2011. If Dice K and Buchholz and Lackey had stayed healthy' date=' the team probably would have gone very far. We saw what happens to a team when it only has three starters. It crashes and burns. It is impossible to hold together a staff with two black holes at the end of the rotation. We know what happens in that situation. Looking forward to 2012, if we don't get another starter, we are going to start the season with 2 guys in the rotation that have never started in the major leagues and have no record of success as starters in professional ball. This has the potential to turn very bad.[/quote']

 

I don't think the Red Sox plan on letting Aceves start. They picked up a s*** ton of depth in order to keep one of Bard/Aceves in the bullpen. There are ten different guys who will all be competing for the #5 spot.

 

I know you're skeptical, and think they're all garbage(and you're probably right) but when you have ten guys-- the majority of which has either had major league success, or has the stuff they need to have major league success-- there is a good chance one will emerge.

 

Best case scenario, they get another starter, and there are eleven guys competing for the #5 spot (including Bard).

[a700hitter]

I don't think the Red Sox plan on letting Aceves start. They picked up a s*** ton of depth in order to keep one of Bard/Aceves in the bullpen. There are ten different guys who will all be competing for the #5 spot.

 

I know you're skeptical, and think they're all garbage(and you're probably right) but when you have ten guys-- the majority of which has either had major league success, or has the stuff they need to have major league success-- there is a good chance one will emerge.

 

Best case scenario, they get another starter, and there are eleven guys competing for the #5 spot (including Bard).

Every one of those guys we picked up is either badly damaged goods or a complete slug. Cook is really the only one with significant major league success, and his body is shot. The guy has had more arm and health issues and he really can't break a pane of glass. Jamie Moyer would have been a better option. If they are going to keep Aceves in the Pen, they have to hope that Doubront or Tazawa can step up and take a rotation spot. If one of those guys is able to win the spot, we will still be starting the season with 2 rookie starters in the rotation-- Bard is essentially a rookie when it comes to starting. Two rookies in the rotation is not a very good position to be in. As I said earlier, when the Yanks started 2 rookies (Kennedy and Hughes), they missed the playoffs for the only time in 17 seasons.

[Station 13]

Every one of those guys we picked up is either badly damaged goods or a complete slug. Cook is really the only one with significant major league success' date=' and his body is shot. The guy has had more arm and health issues and he really can't break a pane of glass. Jamie Moyer would have been a better option. If they are going to keep Aceves in the Pen, they have to hope that Doubront or Tazawa can step up and take a rotation spot. If one of those guys is able to win the spot, we will still be starting the season with 2 rookie starters in the rotation-- Bard is essentially a rookie when it comes to starting. Two rookies in the rotation is not a very good position to be in. As I said earlier, when the Yanks started 2 rookies (Kennedy and Hughes), they missed the playoffs for the only time in 17 seasons.[/quote']

 

they were also trotting out Ponson, Rasner, pavano that year. What a rotation.

[Elktonnick]

I get the impression the Red Sox tinker too much with their pitchers, sometimes with counter-productive results.

 

I also think it's possible their strict pitch limit approach results in unnecessarily lower innings for their starters and more wear and tear on the bullpen.

 

I tend to agree. Maybe it is my imagination but they seemed to have more injuries than do most ML teams. It could be that I notice it more because I follow them so closely. My hope is the new pitching coach and medical staff may change things. They certainly mishandled Dice-K.

[a700hitter]

Best case scenario, they get another starter, and there are eleven guys competing for the #5 spot (including Bard).

I think it is Bard's spot to lose. If he doesn't s*** himself or get injured in Spring training, he will be in the rotation, and i am good with that. I have been curious to see what he can do as a starter since last August, but I have to acknowledge that there is an element of risk making him a starter given his history. Taking a risk with one rotation spot is not a huge deal. You can usually plug one hole if you need to. Two rookies or converted relievers is much more problematic. The risk goes up exponentially in my mind.