2011-2012 Offseason Thread

[a700hitter]

The smear campaigns have been going on since I can remember, and that's long before this ownership group was at the healm. The common factor is the Boston media. Not saying the FO is 100% innocent. But it's been going on for awhile.

 

You really have a hardon for this ownership group. Have they wronged you in some sort of way? Did them making the Red Sox a winning organization have some adverse effect on your personality? Where you so used to them losing it became part of you and now they have won and changed the culture and now that part of you has been taken away or something? It's like all you guys used to do is complain they didn't win. Then they won, and it seems to have caused some sort of identity chrisis for a certain group of fans. They won, and now it's like omg what do I complain about? That's all I have ever known! Not being able to complain about the team gave you nothing to be salty towards. You probably stemmed the flow by calling out "pink hats" and this sort of thing, but now that they have lost 2 years in a row, it's like you have rediscovered yourself and have gone back to where your most comfortable. Some of you act like this ownership group has run this franchise into the ground. Why not take a step back and go, thank f***ing Christ Mccourt didn't get the winning bid for this team. Or how about being thankful the Wilpon's aren't in charge. I just don't get why some get so upset with the owners. Are they perfect? No. Are they better then most? Yes. If you don't think so, go surf around some Royal, Pirates, O's, Guardians, Mariners, Athletic, Astro forums and ask if they would take Henry and Co. over what they have now. Some would probably offer their left testicle.

The Boston media is a bunch of pricks. I have witnessed their handiwork for 45 years. There are some differences with the way they relate to this ownership group. Before this ownership, the media had more of the upper hand. The newspaper columnists were a small group, but a well established institution and they were kind of the only game in town. That dynamic has changed since the Sox have become a 24/7 media phenomenon. The press contingent is huge and they are competing with each other. Under past ownership, the press hammered players while they were with the Red Sox. For the most part, that has stopped. While a player is with the Sox, the press, for all intents and purposes, exercises a see no evil hear no evil approach, probably because they don't want to risk their access to players and management. After the players are gone, the press takes off the gloves. I think this is with the tacit approval of the FO which seems to be the most likely source of the leaks that are the basis for these stories.

[jung]

In this case, was was posted up was an official "Yankees" announcement. Maybe a smear campaign is initiated by a leak of some information from an organization to the media but this was the actual public announcement from the Yankees themselves. Hard to grasp an "organizational" grudge against a player.

[BSN07]

Ya it least the Sox seem to go about it a bit differently. That whole AJ Yanks deal was awful. They didn't hint or tip toe around it. It was just, AJ Burnett = piece of s***. It seemed to be different then when past starts left the team. He must have really stepped on some toes.

 

The media is craxy these days anyways. The only way to stand out is to go out on a limb or make your comments so harsh or outrageous that they get noticed by everyone.

[Muggah]

The smear campaigns have been going on since I can remember, and that's long before this ownership group was at the healm. The common factor is the Boston media. Not saying the FO is 100% innocent. But it's been going on for awhile.

 

You really have a hardon for this ownership group. Have they wronged you in some sort of way? Did them making the Red Sox a winning organization have some adverse effect on your personality? Where you so used to them losing it became part of you and now they have won and changed the culture and now that part of you has been taken away or something? It's like all you guys used to do is complain they didn't win. Then they won, and it seems to have caused some sort of identity chrisis for a certain group of fans. They won, and now it's like omg what do I complain about? That's all I have ever known! Not being able to complain about the team gave you nothing to be salty towards. You probably stemmed the flow by calling out "pink hats" and this sort of thing, but now that they have lost 2 years in a row, it's like you have rediscovered yourself and have gone back to where your most comfortable. Some of you act like this ownership group has run this franchise into the ground. Why not take a step back and go, thank f***ing Christ Mccourt didn't get the winning bid for this team. Or how about being thankful the Wilpon's aren't in charge. I just don't get why some get so upset with the owners. Are they perfect? No. Are they better then most? Yes. If you don't think so, go surf around some Royal, Pirates, O's, Guardians, Mariners, Athletic, Astro forums and ask if they would take Henry and Co. over what they have now. Some would probably offer their left testicle.

 

 

 

No need to get your panties in a bunch. You're a pollyanna, I am not. I enjoy the hell out of it when they win, but likewise when incompetence and amateurism within their ranks rears its ugly head--well I'm all about calling them out on that, too. IMO, it is to a large degree that cheerleaders like you have allowed this ownership group to skate, free of criticism, over the past four seasons due to this never ending honeymoon period you've extended them because of the two WCSs--and look what it's gotten you---a 3rd place team. Nice job. Thanks a million. Sorry to disappoint you, that's not the way I roll. I take every season as it comes and demand excellence from a team with the resources this one has. If that bothers you...too friggin' bad.

[SoxSport]

One thing I have not thought to ask in this whole Iggy discussion is where he went this winter. Does it make any sense to think that a guy his age with the work he needs to do just sat home? He must have played somewhere this winter. Maybe V knows something about his winter performance that has him thinking that Iggy has really made some progress. Heck that is at least a mystery that holds some promise for a change. Most of our mysteries are about much less interesting topics these days.

 

I understand Iggy was seen in Germany with ARod--at the Fountain of Youth Institute.

Not that Iggy needs to get any younger.

[Muggah]

The Boston media is a bunch of pricks. I have witnessed their handiwork for 45 years. There are some differences with the way they relate to this ownership group. Before this ownership' date=' the media had more of the upper hand. The newspaper columnists were a small group, but a well established institution and they were kind of the only game in town. That dynamic has changed since the Sox have become a 24/7 media phenomenon. The press contingent is huge and they are competing with each other. Under past ownership, the press hammered players while they were with the Red Sox. For the most part, that has stopped. While a player is with the Sox, the press, for all intents and purposes, exercises a see no evil hear no evil approach, probably because they don't want to risk their access to players and management. After the players are gone, the press takes off the gloves. I think this is with the tacit approval of the FO which seems to be the most likely source of the leaks that are the basis for these stories.[/quote']

 

 

This is spot on. And let's not forget too that Blunder was notoriously vindictive when it came to limiting access to media members critical of the organization--in any way. I'm not sure we're going to see much of a change with him gone.

[BSN07]

No need to get your panties in a bunch. You're a pollyanna' date=' I am not. I enjoy the hell out of it when they win, but likewise when incompetence and amateurism within their ranks rears its ugly head--well I'm all about calling them out on that, too. IMO, it is to a large degree that cheerleaders like you have allowed this ownership group to skate, free of criticism, over the past four seasons due to this never ending honeymoon period you've extended them because of the two WCSs. Sorry to disappoint you, that's not the way I roll. I take every season as it comes and demand excellence from a team with the resources this one has. If that bothers you...too friggin' bad.[/quote']

 

Fair enough. You going to be disappointed more often then not with that view of things though. I used to live and die with every pitch, eventually I figured I enjoyed the game alot more when I took it for what it was, a game. I love the Sox, I love when they win and hate when they lose. The difference is when they lose I'm over it in about an hour. I found for me, that this makes my fan experience more enjoyable.

 

But that's the way I typically am with everything in life. I try to avoid all the drama and BS and concetrate on the good. Doesn't mean the bad stuff doesn't annoy me. Just eventually I get to apoint where I'm like, wtf can i do about it? lol

 

I'm much more emotional with my team that I play for and the other team I coach. Maybe that's why I don't worry about the drama around the team, I have enough of that to deal with with my teams. To be totally honest if I lived closer I probably would be more emotionally involved and may be griping about some of the things people tend to gripe about here my whole thing is I wish people would just occasionally let up and realize we as red Sox fans have a good thing going. probably better then any Red Sox fan generation has ever had it. But yes I agree to a certain point that it doesn't mean they can get away with everything because they have won twice. I just think we don't need to jump on every little negative thin and blow it out of proportion is all.

 

The team has a very solid base. They are strapped for cash because of a few bad deals. And I get aggrivated when I see posters here crushing the FO office for these deals when at the time of or just before the same people were screaming at the FO for not spending money. I just don't believe you can have it both ways. Either they save the money and let the non elite players pass by(Crawford, Lackey) or you want them to spend every dime on the best available player at that time and then deal with the consequences if these non top tier guys don't pan out.

 

If your going to blast the FO for the negative, then you must give them credit for the positive and vice versa as well, is really all myself and some others around here are really saying. To cherry pick the bad and ignore the good is never going to lead to any discussion with substance. And that's really what we want on a board like this.

 

Hopefully our nice long discussion will help defuse some of the negative pent up aggression around here

[Muggah]

Fair enough. You going to be disappointed more often then not with that view of things though. I used to live and die with every pitch, eventually I figured I enjoyed the game alot more when I took it for what it was, a game. I love the Sox, I love when they win and hate when they lose. The difference is when they lose I'm over it in about an hour. I found for me, that this makes my fan experience more enjoyable.

 

But that's the way I typically am with everything in life. I try to avoid all the drama and BS and concetrate on the good. Doesn't mean the bad stuff doesn't annoy me. Just eventually I get to apoint where I'm like, wtf can i do about it? lol

 

I'm much more emotional with my team that I play for and the other team I coach. Maybe that's why I don't worry about the drama around the team, I have enough of that to deal with with my teams. To be totally honest if I lived closer I probably would be more emotionally involved and may be griping about some of the things people tend to gripe about here my whole thing is I wish people would just occasionally let up and realize we as red Sox fans have a good thing going. probably better then any Red Sox fan generation has ever had it. But yes I agree to a certain point that it doesn't mean they can get away with everything because they have won twice. I just think we don't need to jump on every little negative thin and blow it out of proportion is all.

 

The team has a very solid base. They are strapped for cash because of a few bad deals. And I get aggrivated when I see posters here crushing the FO office for these deals when at the time of or just before the same people were screaming at the FO for not spending money. I just don't believe you can have it both ways. Either they save the money and let the non elite players pass by(Crawford, Lackey) or you want them to spend every dime on the best available player at that time and then deal with the consequences if these non top tier guys don't pan out.

 

If your going to blast the FO for the negative, then you must give them credit for the positive and vice versa as well, is really all myself and some others around here are really saying. To cherry pick the bad and ignore the good is never going to lead to any discussion with substance. And that's really what we want on a board like this.

 

Hopefully our nice long discussion will help defuse some of the negative pent up aggression around here

 

It's all good, my friend. And to be honest, like you, I have adjusted my emotions over the years, which is why, if you notice, I have set the bar very low for this season. I'm fully expecting another 3rd place finish. I just think it's too much to ask to fix this plethora of problems Francona and Blunder have left in their wake overnight. But that doesn't mean I'm willing to let Henry & Co. skate when they do foolish things. I think we can all agree that the level of dysfunction in this hierarchy of this organization has been allowed to get out of control. And IMO it's our responsibility as fans to let them know so.

 

The way they conduct business currently is a far cry from the dignified professionalism they brought to the table when they first came in. What the reasons are for this? Who knows, but as consumers, and as fans who ultimately pay a large percentage of their hefty revenues, we are remiss, IMO, if we don't let them know we're not happy with the product they're delivering. At some point there's got to be some accountability, and if that means it's time for them to say "Thanks for the memories" and sell the team, so be it. But the way they're currently operating (and have been for the past three years) obviously isn't working for anyone. And they need to hear about it.

 

Thanks for taking the time. Great conversation.

[a700hitter]

and Roy Oswalt sits at home with his bags packed and nowhere to go.

[Bellhorn04]

and Roy Oswalt sits at home with his bags packed and nowhere to go.

 

Jeff Passan had a story about Oswalt that seemed plausible. The gist of it was that Oswalt is only interested in playing for the Rangers or the Cards. Neither team has a rotation opening, but Oswalt may be prepared to wait until there's opening through injury or ineffectiveness.

[Muggah]

Jeff Passan had a story about Oswalt that seemed plausible. The gist of it was that Oswalt is only interested in playing for the Rangers or the Cards. Neither team has a rotation opening' date=' but Oswalt may be prepared to wait until there's opening through injury or ineffectiveness.[/quote']

 

Interesting approach. It seems a likely scenario one way or another that there will be an opening at some point. And with either team he's likely to pitch in meaningful games come Sept. and Oct. Slick approach if that's what he's in fact doing.

[Elktonnick]

Interesting approach. It seems a likely scenario one way or another that there will be an opening at some point. And with either team he's likely to pitch in meaningful games come Sept. and Oct. Slick approach if that's what he's in fact doing.

 

I think more writers and baseball people are coming to that conclusion. The general feeling now is that Oswalt has at best 25 starts in him. The thinking is that he'll stay in shape and wait a call come June when injuries affect staffs. The consensus the only Al team he'll play for is Texas.

[VA Sox Fan]

How nice and quiet so far this evening. Refreshing.

 

Happy Fat Tuesday!

 

Spring Training.........Nice!

[seabeachfred]

The smear campaigns have been going on since I can remember, and that's long before this ownership group was at the healm. The common factor is the Boston media. Not saying the FO is 100% innocent. But it's been going on for awhile.

 

You really have a hardon for this ownership group. Have they wronged you in some sort of way? Did them making the Red Sox a winning organization have some adverse effect on your personality? Where you so used to them losing it became part of you and now they have won and changed the culture and now that part of you has been taken away or something? It's like all you guys used to do is complain they didn't win. Then they won, and it seems to have caused some sort of identity chrisis for a certain group of fans. They won, and now it's like omg what do I complain about? That's all I have ever known! Not being able to complain about the team gave you nothing to be salty towards. You probably stemmed the flow by calling out "pink hats" and this sort of thing, but now that they have lost 2 years in a row, it's like you have rediscovered yourself and have gone back to where your most comfortable. Some of you act like this ownership group has run this franchise into the ground. Why not take a step back and go, thank f***ing Christ Mccourt didn't get the winning bid for this team. Or how about being thankful the Wilpon's aren't in charge. I just don't get why some get so upset with the owners. Are they perfect? No. Are they better then most? Yes. If you don't think so, go surf around some Royal, Pirates, O's, Guardians, Mariners, Athletic, Astro forums and ask if they would take Henry and Co. over what they have now. Some would probably offer their left testicle.

 

There are some things in your post Dutch that I can totally agree with but for you to wax poetic at what has gone down the past THREE seasons is to me disengenuous. After we blew the pennant in 2008 due to Francona's miserable handling of the pitching staff and his usuall safety first strategy, we have had three very disappointing seasons in a row. I don't call a three and out ALDS fiasco part of a successful season in 2009, and remember, we were three games ahead at the ASB and proceeded to go into the tank right after tha.

 

Coincidental or not, ever since Henry married that sweetheart of his, the interest he has shown in the team has been muddled at best. Then there was the miserable FA signings of Epstein, and Francona's continued unraveling in the dugout. We have NOT WON A DAMN THING IN THE LAST FOUR YEARS----NOTHING, NOT A DIVISION, NOT A PENNANT AND CERTAINLY NOT A WS. I call that failure, pure and simple. Some don't like to hear that and rail at it and you may be one of those people. No matter, facts are facts. Zilch is what we have won the past four seasons. Some of us think the front office has lost its way. Some of us think changes should have been made earlier via Francona and Epstein. But for whatever reasons, the team is not playing as it did back in the days of 2003-2007, not even close. Did some of us get spoiled? Speaking for myself I did--and I expected more success that we've gotten the past four seasons. Perhaps you are satisfied with what'ss gone down since 2007 but a lot of us are not. We can read the standings at the end of the season and it doesn't spell success. And just for the re cord, success to me is at least winning the division. We haven't even done that.

[VA Sox Fan]

How nice and quiet so far this evening. Refreshing.

 

Happy Fat Tuesday!

 

Spring Training.........Nice!

 

I spoke too soon.

[a700hitter]

I saw Youk on the Sox Report on NESN last night. He looks like he has trimmed a few lbs. He needed to do that. Whether he plays 1st or 3rd, he was carrying too much weight. On the other side of 30, it's better to be light and flexible as opposed to muscular and thick.

[BSN07]

I saw Youk on the Sox Report on NESN last night. He looks like he has trimmed a few lbs. He needed to do that. Whether he plays 1st or 3rd' date=' he was carrying too much weight. On the other side of 30, it's better to be light and flexible as opposed to muscular and thick.[/quote']

 

My worry about Youk from the start is that his body type would not age well. I will not be at all shocked if this is his last year in Boston. IMO he tails off heavily after 33-34 years of age. he can't step back anymore in the box to increase his reaction time without sitting in the laop of the Catcher lol

[a700hitter]

My worry about Youk from the start is that his body type would not age well. I will not be at all shocked if this is his last year in Boston. IMO he tails off heavily after 33-34 years of age. he can't step back anymore in the box to increase his reaction time without sitting in the laop of the Catcher lol

I don't think his body type will affect his reflexes, but it will break his body down starting in his knees and legs. If he keeps the weight off, he should be fine. He should play at no more than 205. He's been at 220-225 for the past several seasons.

 

They might decide to part ways with him after the season, but he may still be very productive for 3-4 more years.

[a700hitter]

It's a slow news day in the baseball world

Blue Jays Sign Rick VandenHurk

By Ben Nicholson-Smith [February 22 at 8:57am CST]

 

The Blue Jays announced that they signed Rick VandenHurk to a non-guaranteed split Major League contract. The Orioles released the right-hander earlier this month, making him a free agent.

 

VandenHurk, 26, has experience in five big league seasons, but he appeared in just four games for the 2011 Orioles. He spent most of the season as a starter at Triple-A, where he posted a 4.43 ERA with 6.3 K/9 and 2.3 BB/9 in 154 1/3 innings. The 6'5" native of the Netherlands has a 5.97 ERA with 8.8 K/9, 4.7 BB/9 and a 27.9% ground ball rate in 181 career innings with the Marlins and Orioles.

 

The Blue Jays created 40-man roster space for VandenHurk by placing right-hander Alan Farina on the 60-day DL.

^This move is reportedly being made to free up payroll for Bobby Oatmeal.

[BSN07]

It's a slow news day in the baseball world ^This move is reportedly being made to free up payroll for Bobby Oatmeal.

 

Wooot Dutch man getting a contract, my players will be excited to hear this

[BSN07]

I don't think his body type will affect his reflexes, but it will break his body down starting in his knees and legs. If he keeps the weight off, he should be fine. He should play at no more than 205. He's been at 220-225 for the past several seasons.

 

They might decide to part ways with him after the season, but he may still be very productive for 3-4 more years.

 

He will probably be productive. I just think his "prime" window will be shorter then others because of his body type.

 

If the Sox keep him he will probably be the DH and Middlebrooks will be the 3B.

[User Name]

Roy Oswalt Could Decide On New Team By Tomorrow

By Mike Axisa [February 22 at 6:16pm CST]

 

Pitchers and catchers have reported for Spring Training all across the league, but Roy Oswalt remains unemployed. That could change soon, as ESPN's Jim Bowden reports (on Twitter) that the veteran right-hander could make a decision about his next team as soon as tomorrow.

 

The market for the 34-year-old Oswalt has faded in recent weeks, as several teams have come out and said they don't have interest in signing him. The Red Sox, Rangers, and Cardinals all showed interest in him at one point, but it's unclear if they have offers on the table at the moment. Oswalt could end up being the bargaining of the offseason at this stage of the game.

[a700hitter]

Roy Oswalt Could Decide On New Team By Tomorrow

By Mike Axisa [February 22 at 6:16pm CST]

 

Pitchers and catchers have reported for Spring Training all across the league, but Roy Oswalt remains unemployed. That could change soon, as ESPN's Jim Bowden reports (on Twitter) that the veteran right-hander could make a decision about his next team as soon as tomorrow.

 

The market for the 34-year-old Oswalt has faded in recent weeks, as several teams have come out and said they don't have interest in signing him. The Red Sox, Rangers, and Cardinals all showed interest in him at one point, but it's unclear if they have offers on the table at the moment. Oswalt could end up being the bargaining of the offseason at this stage of the game.

[SoxSport]

Nice article here on Bobby Vs initial efforts in ST to refundamentalize the Red Sox, and make them into a team again.

 

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_ylt=AgAUZFxiRriHQRSsqofxgngRvLYF?slug=jp-passan_boston_red_sox_manager_bobby_valentine_022112

 

Unlike the Globe, Passan isn't afraid to point the finger at Francona.

[SoxSport]

 

Re: Oswalt

 

I don't get it. Nobody seems to want him, and HE's going to decide on his new team?

[jung]

I doubt Oswalt is going to be deciding anything at this point. I would not be surprised if the offers that have been made to him have all been withdrawn at this point. Nobody is going to leave an open offer on the table leaving the decision in his hands.

 

Teams will likely see what they have in ST and either decide to make him an offer or not. In some cases teams might be making their second go round with him. Maybe somebody that did not offer the first time around ends up feeling like they need more help coming out of ST. Maybe he still ends up not finding a home and retires at least for the first part of the season anyway.

[SoxSport]

I don't think his body type will affect his reflexes, but it will break his body down starting in his knees and legs. If he keeps the weight off, he should be fine. He should play at no more than 205. He's been at 220-225 for the past several seasons.

 

They might decide to part ways with him after the season, but he may still be very productive for 3-4 more years.

 

Looks like the switch back to 3B was ill-advised. His abdominal problems are a flag.

 

He probably should have taken some weight off to play 3B, but I doubt anybody told him to.

 

I'm beginning to think the Cubs got Hoyer as backup insurance for Epstein.

[Muggah]

I don't think his body type will affect his reflexes, but it will break his body down starting in his knees and legs. If he keeps the weight off, he should be fine. He should play at no more than 205. He's been at 220-225 for the past several seasons.

 

They might decide to part ways with him after the season, but he may still be very productive for 3-4 more years.

 

With Middlebrooks waiting in the wings this will undoubtedly be Kevin's last year in Boston. And if he plays over 100 games this year everyone should look at it as a bonus. We've watched him grow old unusually fast, and that's perhaps in part to his weight, like you say, but also in his failure to condition himself properly. His other issues will be a factor in him not returning as well.

[mvp 78]

Looks like the switch back to 3B was ill-advised. His abdominal problems are a flag.

 

He probably should have taken some weight off to play 3B, but I doubt anybody told him to.

 

I'm beginning to think the Cubs got Hoyer as backup insurance for Epstein.

 

He missed more time in 2010 when he was a full-time 1b. The switch to 3b affected his fielding %, not his health.

[Bellhorn04]

With Middlebrooks waiting in the wings this will undoubtedly be Kevin's last year in Boston. And if he plays over 100 games this year everyone should look at it as a bonus. We've watched him grow old unusually fast' date=' and that's perhaps in part to his weight, like you say, but also in his failure to condition himself properly. His other issues will be a factor in him not returning as well.[/quote']

 

Youkilis could return in 2013 as DH, backup corner infielder.