2011-2012 Offseason Thread

[jung]

I think Jackson was just not somebody the Sox were going to throw $8M+ at. Don't they will with Oswalt either.

[Palodios]

Jackson is a mediocre pitcher? really?, when I take a look at Jackson's numbers the last four years he has a sub 4 ERA and over 190 IP+ per year. Also, He has pitched in the AL, he put with DET a 3.6 ERA and 263 IP, regardless he is still young. What are you talking about?

 

He is young. He is healthy. He is solid. He has an interesting upside. He is in his prime. He was exactly what we needed.

 

I'm not saying that he deserves what Boras was asking but he is a legit 10M/Y pitcher.

 

His peripherals scared me quite a bit when the Red Sox were talking about him. Opposing batters hit .290 against him in 2011, and that was in the NL/AL central.

[jung]

I do think it is interesting that the Nationals signed Jackson right on top of winning the arb case with Lannan. Almost like they took the money they won in that arb, put it with some more money and used it to get Jackson.

[iortiz]

His peripherals scared me quite a bit when the Red Sox were talking about him. Opposing batters hit .290 against him in 2011' date=' and that was in the NL/AL central.[/quote']

 

I mean, he is not a super star or something like that, but he is not very mediocre. He is solid. This guy would have taken our #4 spot. What I liked about this guy is that he is healthy and could give you at least +190 and around 4.5 ERA in the worst scenario IMO and with an interesting upside.

 

Anyway.. he is not an option anymore.

[Palodios]

I do think it is interesting that the Nationals signed Jackson right on top of winning the arb case with Lannan. Almost like they took the money they won in that arb' date=' put it with some more money and used it to get Jackson.[/quote']

 

It seems almost cruel.... Lannan lost money,and they used it to buy his replacement.

[jung]

Do you think they will actually off Lannon or move him to the pen??

[a700hitter]

Do you think they will actually off Lannon or move him to the pen??

Lannan's best role is probably as a swingman out of the pen-- a Darren Oliver type.

[User Name]

Lannan is not the answer for this team.

 

Sign Oswalt, or go as is and explore your mid-season options.

[mvp 78]

Lannan is not the answer for this team.

 

Sign Oswalt, or go as is and explore your mid-season options.

 

Or trade for proven SP.

 

I'm not an Oswalter guy.

[Muggah]

Lannan's best role is probably as a swingman out of the pen-- a Darren Oliver type.

 

Not a great idea, IMO. But I could see the Sox having interest in Lannan.

[SoxSport]

The Globe says Cherington says it's unlikely they'll sign another pitcher before ST. It looks that way, unless something unexpected happens.

 

In the Epstein compensation dealings, the Red Sox will probably ask Selig for Garza, while the Cubs will counter with Theo's old gorilla suit. They'll settle for something in between, unless the deal can be expanded for Garza.

[SoxSport]

Or trade for proven SP.

 

I'm not an Oswalter guy.

 

Oswalt's leverage is declining, and he may have to settle for Boston at reduced rates.

[User Name]

Or trade for proven SP.

 

I'm not an Oswalter guy.

 

TRAITOR! I thought you agreed with me on everything! <_>

 

On a serious note, i believe it's much more likely to happen at mid-season. Just my opinion though.

[jung]

Honestly depending on what the Cards have actually said to Oswalt (likely compete for the 5 hole but could end up in the pen as the first option to the rotation based on injury to somebody or other extenuating circumstance) I still think it more likely that he ends up there than here.

 

Boston or anywhere else in the AL East just does not fit Oswalt's apparent plan to use a 1 year deal somewhere to work his way to a multiyear deal next year. I don't think he would have much of a chance to pull off those kinds of numbers in the AL East. So there just is not enough benefit to him even as it gets close to the end of the line this year. Heck he would go to Detroit first or the Rangers first or the Cards first depending on what the Cards have actually said to him. There are likely even other NL teams that have not been in the running as yet that would offer him something like $5M if he is hanging around out there as the season approaches. With the Sox offering something like $5M Oswalt would probably under pressure of time take even less than that from some NL team.

 

Now that Jackson is officially off the board Oswalt likely feels even more determined to wait for something closer to what he wants than coming over to face AL East teams.

 

The Sox or any AL East team would likely have to sweeten the deal much more than has been reported to date to lure him over.

[Palodios]

Honestly depending on what the Cards have actually said to Oswalt (likely compete for the 5 hole but could end up in the pen as the first option to the rotation based on injury to somebody or other extenuating circumstance) I still think it more likely that he ends up there than here.

 

Boston or anywhere else in the AL East just does not fit Oswalt's apparent plan to use a 1 year deal somewhere to work his way to a multiyear deal next year. I don't think he would have much of a chance to pull off those kinds of numbers in the AL East. So there just is not enough benefit to him even as it gets close to the end of the line this year. Heck he would go to Detroit first or the Rangers first or the Cards first depending on what the Cards have actually said to him. There are likely even other NL teams that have not been in the running as yet that would offer him something like $5M if he is hanging around out there as the season approaches. With the Sox offering something like $5M Oswalt would probably under pressure of time take even less than that from some NL team.

 

Now that Jackson is officially off the board Oswalt likely feels even more determined to wait for something closer to what he wants than coming over to face AL East teams.

 

The Sox or any AL East team would likely have to sweeten the deal much more than has been reported to date to lure him over.

 

 

The curious thing about Roy Oswalt is that the two teams he picked as his desired locations.... were World Series teams. Another big suitor-- the Detroit Tigers-- were spurned by him. And whenever small market teams are reported to be interested, those reports seem to disappear almost immediately.

 

All of the playoff teams are pitching heavy (except the Tigers) and so are the Braves. The Cardinals and Rangers both need to reject him outright before he comes to Boston, but if those teams both say no, I'd bet Boston is his next destination.

[iortiz]

We did not acqire Edwin Jackson to trade another starting pitcher," Rizzo said. "In spring training or before spring training, if a deal comes up we can’t pass up that positively impacts our ball club, we’d certainly be open-minded to it.”

[seabeachfred]

That makes one of us....

 

NB----I've been reading some of your posts and know you are a little pissed off at what has been happening this winter with the front office's cheapness and reluctance to spend the money needed to get our team up to speed. Believe me, if you've been reading other people's missives you would know you are not alone. Yes, I know we spent a ton of money last winter and I get that all the time, but for some reason some of those people who give the ownership a free pass to be stingy this off season may be forgetting that John Henry is a billionaire with plenty of scratch. He should have gone the extra mile for the team and their fans. What he's telling me anyway is that I can take it or leave it and it's as if what concerns us about our team doesn't mean a damn thing to him. We could have gotten Kuroda, or Oswalt or Jackson if he has the will to do, but he didn't. Now we have to hope that luck is with us in the form of good health from the players and career years from a large segment of the roster. It's a helluva lot to ask if you ask me.

[a700hitter]

NB----I've been reading some of your posts and know you are a little pissed off at what has been happening this winter with the front office's cheapness and reluctance to spend the money needed to get our team up to speed. Believe me, if you've been reading other people's missives you would know you are not alone. Yes, I know we spent a ton of money last winter and I get that all the time, but for some reason some of those people who give the ownership a free pass to be stingy this off season may be forgetting that John Henry is a billionaire with plenty of scratch. He should have gone the extra mile for the team and their fans. What he's telling me anyway is that I can take it or leave it and it's as if what concerns us about our team doesn't mean a damn thing to him. We could have gotten Kuroda, or Oswalt or Jackson if he has the will to do, but he didn't.

Now we have to hope that luck is with us in the form of good health from the players and career years from a large segment of the roster. It's a helluva lot to ask if you ask me.

In other words, as we used to say in Brooklyn, we're screwed.

[seabeachfred]

A left handed junk baller in Fenway that is kinda' mediocre....Yikes!

 

Ball slowly makes its way to home plate....quickly makes it way to the Mass Pike.

 

Even though you have to accept some compromises for the kind of money we are talking about Lannan making, that does seem like it would be a tough fit for the Sox.

 

Jung, remember Lenny DiNardo???? We tried the same crap with him two or three times and I think they brought him back last ST for another shot at making the team. He was absolutely s***** to the core and became a human pinata every time he stepped to the mound. A soft tossing lefty is like throwing a bat ting practice pitcher at the opposition at Fenway Park. We went that route with little Lenny; we don't need to try this route again.:thumbdown:thumbdown:thumbdown:thumbdown:thumbdown

[seabeachfred]

In other words, as we used to say in Brooklyn, we're screwed.

You said it 700----royally screwed!!!! I still cannot understand why the team didn't at least try and go a half a mile to sign one of those pitchers. Now with Padilla soon to hit the slammer one of our "depth" guys might be incognito all season---and he might have been the best out of the trash heap we grabbed at.

[mvp 78]

TRAITOR! I thought you agreed with me on everything! <_>

 

On a serious note, i believe it's much more likely to happen at mid-season. Just my opinion though.

 

Why wait until midseason to make a trade? It's like saying, we'll suck for a little but figure it out later.

[jung]

The Sox may not wait till mid-season. If they do get to opening day without having made a move though I think they will wait and try to understand what chances they really have to seal the deal and make the post season this year. I don't think they want to trade away pieces that could be valuable to them unless they have a real shot at the post season this year.

 

If the "team" is not showing signs that they are playing hard and playing responsibly (two things that were really lacking last year) and winning then I don't think you will see them make a move.

 

We often look at the September crash and want to put that in a box and isolate it from the rest of the season. However the 2011 Sox did not come back from being behind in any case where they were trailing in the seventh inning save 2 out of 63 games through the course of the year. The fact that they were such front runners should have been a real warning sign regarding the 2011 team. Not much heart or competitiveness on display when you can only muster a comeback in 2 out of 63 chances. It appears that the SP not starting that day were not the only team members that had checked out by the 7th inning.

 

It is just that sort of thing that the Sox will likely look for this year along with the actual record in an effort to determine if trading away pieces that can help them later for a piece that can help them now makes any sense. I think they are going to be "from Missouri" in that regard this year. "Show me you are not going to embarrass the living hell out of me again" I think will be one thing JH would like to accomplish before spending big money again.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Well. That's awesome that we traded Scutaro for nothing.

[FredLynn]

Well. That's awesome that we traded Scutaro for nothing.

 

With luck we had a reason to dump Scutaro's salary: to get under the cap. If we ended up over the cap by just a little there are going to be a lot of very pissed off fans in Beantown.

[User Name]

With luck we had a reason to dump Scutaro's salary: to get under the cap. If we ended up over the cap by just a little there are going to be a lot of very pissed off fans in Beantown.

 

It's really frustrating that we don't have access to accurate data as to where they stand regarding the LT.

[SoxFanForsyth]

With luck we had a reason to dump Scutaro's salary: to get under the cap. If we ended up over the cap by just a little there are going to be a lot of very pissed off fans in Beantown.

 

Everything that I've seen has us over the cap already. Which is infuriating.

[jung]

It's really frustrating that we don't have access to accurate data as to where they stand regarding the LT.

 

Especially frustrating when they are dancing around right at the limit. If they were clearly over (like the yanks often are) you could just resign yourself to that and be done with it. From where they are today, there is no telling what a few trades one way or the other might do. I guess we will just have to wait longer but I agree....its frustrating as hell.

[jung]

I suppose wining rather than losing arb with Ortiz would be worth some money against the cap limit for the Sox.

[FredLynn]

It's really frustrating that we don't have access to accurate data as to where they stand regarding the LT.

 

I don't think it would be in the best interests of the ownership to broadcast that we are just a little over the cap. Knowledgeable fans would raise hell. I think that the obfuscation is intentional. And yeah, its frustrating.

[mvp 78]

With luck we had a reason to dump Scutaro's salary: to get under the cap. If we ended up over the cap by just a little there are going to be a lot of very pissed off fans in Beantown.

 

Not sure that there are more than a handful of fans worried about luxury tax.