2011-2012 Offseason Thread

[Muggah]

NB----I've been reading some of your posts and know you are a little pissed off at what has been happening this winter with the front office's cheapness and reluctance to spend the money needed to get our team up to speed. Believe me' date=' if you've been reading other people's missives you would know you are not alone. Yes, I know we spent a ton of money last winter and I get that all the time, but for some reason some of those people who give the ownership a free pass to be stingy this off season may be forgetting that John Henry is a billionaire with plenty of scratch. He should have gone the extra mile for the team and their fans. What he's telling me anyway is that I can take it or leave it and it's as if what concerns us about our team doesn't mean a damn thing to him. We could have gotten Kuroda, or Oswalt or Jackson if he has the will to do, but he didn't. Now we have to hope that luck is with us in the form of good health from the players and career years from a large segment of the roster. It's a helluva lot to ask if you ask me.[/quote']

 

Bottom line is this is not a playoff caliber team, and nothing makes that more evident than the way ownership has refused to help it become one---simple as that. People might want to start thinking about reeling in any expectations they have of this team finishing anything above 3rd place. And as I've said, I'm not sure they beat out the Jays for that honor.

[a700hitter]

Rangers "Not Likely" To Sign Roy Oswalt

By Mark Polishuk [February 2 at 7:59pm CST]

 

The Rangers aren't likely to sign free agent right-hander Roy Oswalt, a source tells Jeff Wilson of the Fort Worth Star-Telegram. The sticking point seems to be that the Rangers saw Oswalt as "a key piece of depth," whereas Oswalt wasn't interested in pitching out of the bullpen and wanted a $10MM contract. Texas also didn't want to move Matt Harrison out of the rotation to make room for Oswalt.

 

With Texas seemingly out of the picture and the Nationals agreeing to sign Edwin Jackson, Oswalt's market seems to be down to the Red Sox and Cardinals, as he has already turned down an offer from the Tigers and told the Guardians and Blue Jays he's not interested in signing with either club. Boston and St. Louis have both made offers to Oswalt in the range of a one-year, $5MM contract, and the Cardinals are shopping Kyle McClellan to try and free up payroll.

This guys is dangling like ripe low hanging fruit. Just sign the freaking guy.

[jung]

The Sox and Cards will not in my estimation end up being the only teams vying for Oswalt's services assuming either team is still vying at all.

[jung]

Nick Cafardo just interviewed said that some number of insiders have told him that Ortiz would likely win his arbitration at $16.5M. If that is true it speaks volumes to what is wrong with the arbitration process.

 

Cafardo went on to say that it was his expectation the Sox would not make additional major changes going into ST but would "tweak" the team and get more pitching before or at the trade deadline if they thought it the right move to make.

[Palodios]

The Sox and Cards will not in my estimation end up being the only teams vying for Oswalt's services assuming either team is still vying at all.

 

Sure, but he's being very picky about who he wants to join. His first two teams are world series teams. Its not like he's making it easy for say the Mariners to sign him.

[a700hitter]

Cafardo went on to say that it was his expectation the Sox would not make additional major changes going into ST but would "tweak" the team and get more pitching before or at the trade deadline if they thought it the right move to make.

If 2 wild card teams are added this season, there will be no pitchers available at the trading deadline.

[jung]

Oswalt does not seem to be making teams offering him $5M priorities either. I just don't think the Sox are actually vying for his services and at the end of the day I think that is what it will take.

[SCM33]

Well. That's awesome that we traded Scutaro for nothing.

 

Small market teams like the Pirates, Padres, Royals and Redsox need to trade players away to save a 1.5M cap hit.

 

We cant afford to pay luxury tax penalties because the owners generate little revenue since no fans ever go to the games and the place never sells out.

[Bellhorn04]

I don't think it would be in the best interests of the ownership to broadcast that we are just a little over the cap. Knowledgeable fans would raise hell. I think that the obfuscation is intentional. And yeah' date=' its frustrating.[/quote']

 

Pumpsie, you can't hide your cap numbers. They're not easily accessible but they are public knowledge. Alex Speier at WEEI has been tracking it. His numbers say we are going to be over it for sure.

 

Keep in mind our 2011 final LT number came in at 189 million, 11 million over the limit.

 

My bet is that they are working with a budget of not exceeding the 2011 number.

 

They didn't trade Scutaro to stay under the threshold, but they did trade him to free up money for other purposes. They already used half of that money on Cody Ross.

 

They've got about 5-6 million left they're willing to spend, no more.

[mvp 78]

Bottom line is that you guys didn't buy enough Fenway bricks last year. If you weren't so stingy with your own money, the Sox would have a complete rotation. I put in a new patio with my bricks so you can personally thank me for Cody Ross.

[Bellhorn04]

Speier's numbers show that we are going way over the LT threshold. People need to realize that and stop talking about staying under the threshold as a possibility. The only way they could have a prayer of doing that is by cutting the Big Papi in spring training. I don't think so.

 

http://bit.ly/x8Lcdq

[a700hitter]

Bottom line is that you guys didn't buy enough Fenway bricks last year. If you weren't so stingy with your own money' date=' the Sox would have a complete rotation. I put in a new patio with my bricks so you can personally thank me for Cody Ross.[/quote']Hey,I bought the larger size brick. Do your part! We need a pitcher. I don't care how you slice it. We can hope all we want, but we don't have a viable 5th starter.

[Muggah]

Nick Cafardo just interviewed said that some number of insiders have told him that Ortiz would likely win his arbitration at $16.5M. If that is true it speaks volumes to what is wrong with the arbitration process.

 

Cafardo went on to say that it was his expectation the Sox would not make additional major changes going into ST but would "tweak" the team and get more pitching before or at the trade deadline if they thought it the right move to make.

 

Valentine and BC said the same last night. They couched their words, but in essence they pleaded, "Please don't be expecting too much."

[SoxSport]

Nick Cafardo just interviewed said that some number of insiders have told him that Ortiz would likely win his arbitration at $16.5M. If that is true it speaks volumes to what is wrong with the arbitration process.

 

Cafardo went on to say that it was his expectation the Sox would not make additional major changes going into ST but would "tweak" the team and get more pitching before or at the trade deadline if they thought it the right move to make.

 

 

I'll believe that when I see it. I just read an article where Taj Smith, ex-GM, argued it more the other way, using VMart and Dunn as the comparisons the Red Sox are using. $12 mil is about right. If it goes to $16 mil, they should just release the guy--if it's possible. They'd be paying him over $20 mil with the luxury tax.

 

As I've said, I think the arbitration process is almost as inflationary as the agents are. Baseball doesn't have an effective way of controlling salaries. There isn't enough regulation--because the union has too much power and the big markets (mainly the Yankees) like the system for the advantage it gives them.

[SoxSport]

Valentine and BC said the same last night. They couched their words' date=' but in essence they pleaded, "Please don't be expecting too much."[/quote']

 

They made their bed giving Ortiz leverage, so let them lie in it. I doubt it will make any difference. Oswalt and Jackson, for example, aren't worth the climb compared to what they have.

[a700hitter]

They made their bed giving Ortiz leverage' date=' so let them lie in it. I doubt it will make any difference. Oswalt and Jackson, for example, aren't worth the climb compared to what they have.[/quote']Oswalt would be a huge upgrade to this staff. You underestimate how good he is. He is an excellent pitcher and compare that to the fact that we don't have any viable 5 th starter. It's not like we have an average MLB starter in the 5th slot. We have nothing. People on this forum were considering trading for Lannan who apparently has been deemed not good enough to make the Nats rotation. Our 5th slot is a black hole. Our best hope is Padilla who has arrest warrants out for him in his home country. The guy is a psycho and he hasn't been healthy for 3 years. I wish Ben would put in a call to Pedro. Roll out the red carpet for him. Half of Pedro would be 10 times better than what we have in the 5th spot now.

[Bellhorn04]

Oswalt would be a huge upgrade to this staff. You underestimate how good he is. He is an excellent pitcher and compare that to the fact that we don't have any viable 5 th starter. It's not like we have an average MLB starter in the 5th slot. We have nothing. People on this forum were considering trading for Lannan who apparently has been deemed not good enough to make the Nats rotation. Our 5th slot is a black hole. Our best hope is Padilla who has arrest warrants out for him in his home country. The guy is a psycho and he hasn't been healthy for 3 years. I wish Ben would put in a call to Pedro. Roll out the red carpet for him. Half of Pedro would be 10 times better than what we have in the 5th spot now.

 

I agree. If he's healthy Oswalt is a very good pitcher. I'm still hoping we can get him.

[jung]

Our 5th slot is a black hole.

 

Not to say that I think this is the best solution but based on what Sox have for stated intentions, does it not appear that they think both Bard and Aceves will compete for and win the 4 and 5 spots? For obvious reasons I really hope one of the "gang of 12" or however many of these guys we now have beats out either Bard or Aceves for one of the spots so that one of them can go back to the pen but it does sound like Bard and Aceves will be allowed to compete for both spots and if they win them, the Sox seem prepared to start the season that way.

[a700hitter]

Not to say that I think this is the best solution but based on what Sox have for stated intentions' date=' does it not appear that they think both Bard and Aceves will compete for and win the 4 and 5 spots? For obvious reasons I really hope one of the "gang of 12" or however many of these guys we now have beats out either Bard or Aceves for one of the spots so that one of them can go back to the pen but it does sound like Bard and Aceves will be allowed to compete for both spots and if they win them, the Sox seem prepared to start the season that way.[/quote']Most people writers on NESN have been saying that they expect Aceves to remain in the pen. If you take Bard and Aceves out of the pen, it will be a very weak pen and that will affect the entire staff.

[redsoxfan3]

Not to say that I think this is the best solution but based on what Sox have for stated intentions' date=' does it not appear that they think both Bard and Aceves will compete for and win the 4 and 5 spots? For obvious reasons I really hope one of the "gang of 12" or however many of these guys we now have beats out either Bard or Aceves for one of the spots so that one of them can go back to the pen but it does sound like Bard and Aceves will be allowed to compete for both spots and if they win them, the Sox seem prepared to start the season that way.[/quote']

 

I agree. I think the majority here does. I don't mind losing one of the two to the rotation because it looks like that will work out best for our rotation, but I think it will be a big blow to the pen if we lose both. I hope Bard can get back to his college days and be a reliable 4th starter. I think that one of Silva, Cook, Padilla, etc. would be able to be decent enough in the 5th spot, but that is what the Spring is for.

[a700hitter]

Garza and the Cubs have settled their arbitration for $9.5 million. I expect that the trade market for Garza will heat up immediately.

[a700hitter]

I agree. I think the majority here does. I don't mind losing one of the two to the rotation because it looks like that will work out best for our rotation' date=' but I think it will be a big blow to the pen if we lose both. I hope Bard can get back to his college days and be a reliable 4th starter. I think that one of Silva, Cook, Padilla, etc. would be able to be decent enough in the 5th spot, but that is what the Spring is for.[/quote']I really can't see any basis to believe that any of the depth signings will be able to hold a rotation spot other than Padilla and he has been injured for the last 3 seasons. Silva and Maine- zero chance. Cook- 50% chance of being healthy enough to take the ball every 5th day and he'll suck balls if he is healthy enough to pitch. Overall, I'd say he is a 10 to 1 chance to be helpful.

[redsoxfan3]

Question of the day: Is Doubront a real option for the 5th spot in the rotation?

 

I think if he can prove himself in Spring Training that he is worth giving a shot. Do you guys see him as more of a guy in the pen as a spot starter/swingman?

 

Also, another interesting starting pitcher that we signed a couple of months ago. I know Jesse Carlson does not have a lot of experience in the majors, but he pitched in the AL East with the Jays for three years and put up a 3.63 ERA and a 1.189 WHIP in those three seasons. He has kind of fallen under the radar with us signing other veterans like Padilla, Cook, and Silva. He has struggled with injuries from what I have read. If there is any chance of him returning to his form in '07, Carlson could be an interesting candidate for the 5th spot. I would be able to deal with a 4.50 ERA and 1.300 WHIP if he can give us that kind of production. That would be an improvement over Lackey, Wakefield, and Miller from last season.

[Station 13]

Doubront attitude has to change first. He's been given opportunities to get call up but been pass over by a couple of others, Weiland, Bedard, etc. He was either ineffective or injured those times. All stems of his poor conditioning.

[a700hitter]

At least Doubront is not a broken down relic like the others. He has the ability IMO, but he has to step up his game. Carlson? I do,kt remember what type of surgery he had and how far he is removed from surgery.

 

I have spent too many decades hoping that broken down relics signed in the winter would turn back the clock and be good again. It almost never has happened.

[BSN07]

At least Doubront is not a broken down relic like the others. He has the ability IMO, but he has to step up his game. Carlson? I do,kt remember what type of surgery he had and how far he is removed from surgery.

 

I have spent too many decades hoping that broken down relics signed in the winter would turn back the clock and be good again. It almost never has happened.

 

Are you not concerned about Oswalt breaking down?

 

He's a very good NL pitcher that has red flags when it comes to health. I honestly don't see why so many people view him as the savior of this staff. Would he be better then some of the guys they brought in so far? Yes, but it's not as though he would not come with his own set of concerns. Knowing you he goes out and pitches twice, hurts his back and is out for 2 months and then you'd be screaming at the the Sox medical staff for not knowing he was an injury risk when they signed him.

 

I really think everyone needs to just relax, and cheer on the team thats on the field. Is it a juggernaut? Probably not? Are they the Royals? No. Let's just relax and see how things play out.

[redsoxfan3]

At least Doubront is not a broken down relic like the others. He has the ability IMO, but he has to step up his game. Carlson? I do,kt remember what type of surgery he had and how far he is removed from surgery.

 

I have spent too many decades hoping that broken down relics signed in the winter would turn back the clock and be good again. It almost never has happened.

 

Scratch that. I just read that Carlson is going into Spring Training with the understanding that he is fighting for a spot in the bullpen. The 5th spot looks like it will be between mainly Cook, Silva, Padilla, Doubront, and Miller. One of the last three is probably more than likely to get the 5th spot. I hope Doubront can prove himself this Spring. He is young and if he proves to be a decent 5th starter, maybe he can find himself a spot in the rotation over the next few years.

[a700hitter]

Are you not concerned about Oswalt breaking down?

Are you concerned about Beckett or Buchholz breaking down?

[a700hitter]

I really think everyone needs to just relax' date=' and cheer on the team thats on the field. Is it a juggernaut? Probably not? Are they the Royals? No. Let's just relax and see how things play out.[/quote']

Whew! Thanks for the advice. I hadn't been able to eat, drink or sleep.

[FredLynn]

I really can't see any basis to believe that any of the depth signings will be able to hold a rotation spot other than Padilla and he has been injured for the last 3 seasons. Silva and Maine- zero chance. Cook- 50% chance of being healthy enough to take the ball every 5th day and he'll suck balls if he is healthy enough to pitch. Overall' date=' I'd say he is a 10 to 1 chance to be helpful.[/quote']

 

Hey-there's always the selfish jerk Tim Wakefield, right? What a perfect year for him to try to set the record eh? After all, "the fans deserve to see him do it"....according to the selfish jerk.