2011-2012 Offseason Thread

[seabeachfred]

Even If the offer is 5-6 plus 5 in incentives I really doubt that it could work it out. Maybe for Oswalt (injury concerns; btw that offer seems that didn't work it out) but for Jackson? I really doubt it.

 

Sox Sport and iortiz, this is in replay to both of you. First of all if Boras is asking for $10 mil for Jackson he's not going to get it from the Red Sox, so if the price doesn't go down and down the righthander is not coming here. As for the 5-6 million bandied about we don't seem to want to go there either. It's like we're pinching pennies so hard they are yelping in pain. Right now this whole scene reminds me of one big fluster#uck!!!!!

[mvp 78]

HOF Gammons: DiceK is "in incredible" shape.

[SoxSport]

Did Bobby V really have an issue with Scutaro. He seemed like a Bobby V type player - smart and hard working. Was it something that went back to their Mets days?

 

Can't believe it. More like a salary dump. They saved $1.5 mil option money by signing him and $6mil on the trade. After they got Punto and Sweeney, they figured they could get by with Aviles and Punto at SS without much of a drop. And maybe Iglesias might be ready by midseason. Scutaro was a one-year rental.

[Bellhorn04]

HOF Gammons: DiceK is "in incredible" shape.

 

Damn, doesn't hearing that make it feel like it's almost spring?

[mvp 78]

Can't believe it. More like a salary dump. They saved $1.5 mil option money by signing him and $6mil on the trade. After they got Punto and Sweeney' date=' they figured they could get by with Aviles and Punto at SS without much of a drop. And maybe Iglesias might be ready by midseason. Scutaro was a one-year rental.[/quote']

 

Two glorious years.

[mvp 78]

Damn' date=' doesn't hearing that make it feel like it's almost spring? [/quote']

 

Just around the corner. Can't wait!

[SoxSport]

Scutaro is a good guy and good player. i can't see the problem there. He played hurt through 2010. And rebound in 2011' date=' even after Lowrie booted him to the bench in April, we hear nothing. We lose a guy who hit .299 last year, and is a pain in the rear end for any pitcher to face.[/quote']

 

Nice player, but he's 35 or 36, just an average SS, and they have replacements on the roster for cheaper. He's playing 2B in Denver, maybe a better position for him at this point.

 

They are carrying a few other luxuries far worse, but nobody wants them.

[redsoxfan3]

HOF Gammons: DiceK is "in incredible" shape.

 

I don't know what his definition of incredible shape is, but I just hope he makes a strong recovery and can help this team out in the summer. I also hope that we don't rush him too much to come back.

 

Here is a tweet about what Gammons is saying about the Red Sox and Edwin Jackson:

 

Red Sox Stats @redsoxstats Reply Retweet Favorite · Open

Gammons on NESN now is saying he talked to Boras today and has a "feeling" about Edwin Jackson signing with the #RedSox on a 1-year deal.

 

I am hoping that Gammons is right. That would be a huge boost to this rotation.

[seabeachfred]

I don't think its fair to say he regressed. Doubront got hurt' date=' but its not like he hit any roadblocks besides that. All signs still point to him being a major league caliber player.[/quote']

 

Fair enough Palodios. Regression is out due to injuries but this year I think he has to step up because fair or foul I don't much confidence at all in that slagheap of pitchers Benny Boy has signed. I also think it would be nice to finally see one of our young pitchers make it to the Red Sox and actually contribute to the cause. We haven't had one of those for a few years.

[seabeachfred]

Fred' date=' the Yankees just signed your old pal Delcarmen, and he didn't even pitch in the majors last year. Doesn't that say it all about signings like John Maine? They scoop these guys up thinking there's a chance in hell they might get some use out of them. This s*** goes on all the time. In the days before the internet we wouldn't even hear about transactions like that. Now we're all over every little news flash. You have to ignore some of this stuff.[/quote']

 

I almost jumped out of my shoes when I read that Bob and for the life of me I cannot figure out what went through the mind of the Yankees when they signed that guy. I mean, didn't the Yankees come up with a good bullpen last season? I can only surmise the signing was for the purpose of restocking their minor league teams in AA and AAA. You offer good advice to just ignore these signings because we couldn't really make heads nor tails of it even if we fried our brains trying. :o:o:o:o

[User Name]

Doubront (DoubrOnt) should, at the very least, be a valuable BP piece next year.

[jacksonianmarch]

I almost jumped out of my shoes when I read that Bob and for the life of me I cannot figure out what went through the mind of the Yankees when they signed that guy. I mean' date=' didn't the Yankees come up with a good bullpen last season? I can only surmise the signing was for the purpose of restocking their minor league teams in AA and AAA. You offer good advice to just ignore these signings because we couldn't really make heads nor tails of it even if we fried our brains trying. :o:o:o:o[/quote']

 

You throw enough s*** against the wall and something sticks. If he comes to camp and that curve is biting and that fastball is hitting the spots, then he might win a spot in the pen. If he comes north and sucks, he gets cut with no strings attached. It's always smart to push your guys with veteran signees

[Station 13]

Doubront (DoubrOnt) should' date=' at the very least, be a valuable BP piece next year.[/quote']

 

We need a lefty, someone has to step up.

[Spudboy]

Hey Spudboy, stuff the old man s***. You're still a swinging kid of 56. Now me, well 71 and I am the senior on this board and don't you forget it. I can't.

 

Doubrant had arm trouble all last year and I'm afraid he regressed somewhat as it seems a lot of our so called prospects do when they reach Double or Triple A, but he is young enough to bounce back. He has above average stuff and as a lefty has a built in advantage. If he could suddenly get his s*** together he could be a big help to us this year, but that is a questionmark right now. Congratulation on your upcoming nuptials. Please, don't tell me this is only your first time down the aisle.:harhar::harhar::harhar::harhar:

 

Well, the last I saw of him was in 2010 and he looked as though he was a functional MLB arm. It was my understanding that he was going down to Pawtucket to be stretched out. That is to say to allow him to become accustomed to throwing more pitches / innings. I wish I knew the nature of his arm problems. If he is healthy, I think, as User has pointed out, that he should be able to fill the roll of mid-relief and spot starting. He was able to go at least 4, maybe 5 innings before.

 

As for the nuptials, yes, I am a two time loser. I have one really nice ex-wife, and one sociopathic C-word on my dossier. Number three is a wonderful young woman and as a few member here know, a smokeshow. I hope to tie the knot within 4 months.

[User Name]

You throw enough s*** against the wall and something sticks. If he comes to camp and that curve is biting and that fastball is hitting the spots' date=' then he might win a spot in the pen. If he comes north and sucks, he gets cut with no strings attached. It's always smart to push your guys with veteran signees[/quote']

 

This applies to the Red Sox too amirite? Right?

[SoxSport]

I don't know what his definition of incredible shape is, but I just hope he makes a strong recovery and can help this team out in the summer. I also hope that we don't rush him too much to come back.

 

Here is a tweet about what Gammons is saying about the Red Sox and Edwin Jackson:

 

 

 

I am hoping that Gammons is right. That would be a huge boost to this rotation.

 

This figures, based on Boras' past success with Beltre by this route in Boston. But Fenway is more a hitter's park than a pitcher's park. Maybe he sees the Sox as the best contending option for Jackson.

[MANNYHOF24]

If DiceK is already throwing, doesn't that indicate that he could return sooner than we previously thought?

[a700hitter]

If DiceK is already throwing' date=' doesn't that indicate that he could return sooner than we previously thought?[/quote']They didn't say that. On the NESN HotStove Report, Gammons alluded to August as when he could be making a contribution. Keep in mind that we read lots of articles about the great progress Smoltz had been making in 2009.

[a700hitter]

hmmm so how do you spend that?

That's not the question you should be asking. The Red Sox have turned Fenway into a huge money making enterprise. The generate a ton of tax revenues, and they are just one enterprise in Boston. The question we should ask is how the does government makes all of that revenue disappear? And what do you get for it as a resident of Boston?

[redsoxfan3]

This figures' date=' based on Boras' past success with Beltre by this route in Boston. But Fenway is more a hitter's park than a pitcher's park. Maybe he sees the Sox as the best contending option for Jackson.[/quote']

 

Well, if it gets us a solid pitcher for one year that will help is contend for a World Series, then I am all for it. Jackson wants a place with a lot of run support and a place where he can contend for a World Series. Boston provides both the opportunity for him to get t a lot of run support and for him to compete for a possible World Series. Where else would he go? The Orioles? They won't be competing for anything this year other than last place in the AL East.

 

From what I have been reading, it is very possible we sign Jackson. I hope we do. He could be a guy that would eat a lot of innings for us. With Beckett, Lester, Buchholz, and Jackson at the top 4 of our rotation, we could have one of Bard, Aceves, Silva, Cook, Padilla, Doubront, etc. fill-in the 5th spot. We will have a good rotation. I would prefer if Bard and Aceves both stay in the pen if we get Jackson, but I think we would be fine with Bard in the 5th spot.

[Bellhorn04]

They didn't say that. On the NESN HotStove Report' date=' Gammons alluded to August as when he could be making a contribution. Keep in mind that we read lots of articles about the great progress Smoltz had been making in 2009.[/quote']

 

For what it's worth-from Matthew Kory at the 'Over the Monster' blog:

 

Over at Sons of Sam Horn, commenter Hairps does yeoman's work in noting that it took Edison Volquez, Jordan Zimmermann, and Stephen Strasburg, three pitchers who recovered from Tommy John surgery to pitch in the majors last year*, an average of 234 days following surgery to throw their first bullpen. Matsuzaka took 232 days. If he continues to follow the path of Volquez, Zimmermann, and Strasburg, Matsuzaka would be ready to begin his minor league rehabilitation on May 1st, and pitch in a major league game on June 6th (a home game against Baltimore).

 

* Zimmermann and Volquez had their surgeries in August of 2009, while Strasburg had his in September of 2010.

 

It should be noted that Volquez and Zimmermann were not world-beaters immediately upon returning from surgery and directly comparing Matsuzaka to Stephen Strasburg would be silly. The point isn't that these pitchers are the same, but that recovery along a certain time line with tangible results in line with previous career norms is possible. It's not only achievable for Matsuzaka to return during the year, it's likely he'll do so before the All Star break.

[FredLynn]

Doubront (DoubrOnt) should' date=' at the very least, be a valuable BP piece next year.[/quote']

 

Maybe; he could also continue to be the piece of trash he has been since he joined the club. He is also out of options, so he isn't going back down to Pawtucket. He may be trash, but he's OUR trash.

[FredLynn]

We need a lefty' date=' someone has to step up.[/quote']

 

Rich Hill is not far from returning.

If we get Jackson AND get one excellent addition to the pen that could change the outlook for 2012. Not my preference; its my second choice behind keeping under the cap, but I would take it.

[User Name]

Maybe; he could also continue to be the piece of trash he has been since he joined the club. He is also out of options' date=' so he isn't going back down to Pawtucket. He may be trash, but he's OUR trash.[/quote']

 

A total of 35 innings in MLB are enough to define a still well-regarded, young and talented pitcher trash? Good to know.

[FredLynn]

A total of 35 innings in MLB are enough to define a still well-regarded' date=' young and talented pitcher trash? Good to know.[/quote']

 

You're right. Lets give him another five seasons performing like he has so far. If he hasn't come around by then we can reevaluate him.

[User Name]

You're right. Lets give him another five seasons performing like he has so far. If he hasn't come around by then we can reevaluate him.

 

Spare me the hyperbole.

 

We both know that 35 innings is a very small sample. how about giving him this year to see what he is instead? Is that somehow unreasonable? Because concluding that the guy is garbage after 35 innings seems a lot more unreasonable than the idea of actually waiting until he pitches at least a full season before coming to a conclusion.

[FredLynn]

Spare me the hyperbole.

 

We both know that 35 innings is a very small sample. how about giving him this year to see what he is instead? Is that somehow unreasonable? Because concluding that the guy is garbage after 35 innings seems a lot more unreasonable than the idea of actually waiting until he pitches at least a full season before coming to a conclusion.

 

What I am saying is that so far he has not pitched well enough to deserve a ML roster spot. This is his last year (or part of a year) to show us something. He will not get 180 innings to do it either. He will be in the pen, most likely, and get about 40 innings or so. Its make or break time, and his performance so far has shown me nothing to be optimistic about.

[User Name]

What I am saying is that so far he has not pitched well enough to deserve a ML roster spot. This is his last year (or part of a year) to show us something. He will not get 180 innings to do it either. He will be in the pen' date=' most likely, and get about 40 innings or so. Its make or break time, and his performance so far has shown me nothing to be optimistic about.[/quote']

 

There aren't many conclusions to gather from 35 innings of major league service though. That is my point. What's he going to show you in 35 innings? He needs an extended look either way.

[FredLynn]

There aren't many conclusions to gather from 35 innings of major league service though. That is my point. What's he going to show you in 35 innings? He needs an extended look either way.

 

He gets this year. Maybe all of it; maybe part of it. If he cannot show us more, he is gone. Same with Bowden.

[SCM33]

Sox are now out of the Edwin Jackson running:

 

http://espn.go.com/blog/boston/red-sox/post/_/id/16174/source-sox-out-of-the-picture-on-jackson

 

 

No Oswalt, now no Jackson.......