2011-2012 Offseason Thread

[a700hitter]

The problem is no competent GM trades away his starting shortstop to get a starting pitcher and then doesn't get the starting pitcher. If he gets the pitcher then good but if he doesn't he look a boob who just fell off the turnip truck

The deal for Oswalt or Jackson should have been all but signed sealed and delivered before he dumped his SS. They have done a lot of things ass-backward this offseason. To start with, they didn't lock down the compensation for Theo before they gave him permission to negotiate. Now, with no leverage we will get next to nothing. Second, the offer arbitration to Ortiz. That one speaks for itself, and i am a huge Ortiz fan. Third, they dump our starting SS who hit close to .300 last year to shed salary to make room for a starting pitcher, but it has become apparent that no deal was close to being in place for a pitcher at the time they dumped Scutaro.

[Elktonnick]

Each one seems worse then the last.

[iortiz]

The problem is no competent GM trades away his starting shortstop to get a starting pitcher and then doesn't get the starting pitcher. If he gets the pitcher then good but if he doesn't he look a boob who just fell off the turnip truck

 

I sworn that he had already a kind of pre-agreement or something. Apparently I was wrong. Sorry Fred, I should take your advise about this. Hopefully Ben keeps an ace up his sleeve.

[a700hitter]

Each one seems worse then the last.

... and he is sloppy on the details. How did it elude him that Sergio Santos was on the block during the GM Meetings and he got traded into our division? Maybe he wouldn't have obtained him, but he should have known about it. We don't get compensation for Wheeler, because he signed a minor league deal with the Guardians. We are giving minor league deals to recycled garbage, but we couldn't offer such a deal to Wheeler.

 

We have been told to be patient, because Benny Boy works at a slow and deliberate pace. In my many years of business, I have observed all sorts of working styles. Usually the slow and deliberate people are very thorough, but I am not getting that impression of Benny. I could be wrong, but these troubling instances are starting to pile up.

[Elktonnick]

... and he is sloppy on the details. How did it elude him that Sergio Santos was on the block during the GM Meetings and he got traded into our division? Maybe he wouldn't have obtained him, but he should have known about it. We don't get compensation for Wheeler, because he signed a minor league deal with the Guardians. We are giving minor league deals to recycled garbage, but we couldn't offer such a deal to Wheeler.

 

We have been told to be patient, because Benny Boy works at a slow and deliberate pace. In my many years of business, I have observed all sorts of working styles. Usually the slow and deliberate people are very thorough, but I am not getting that impression of Benny. I could be wrong, but these troubling instances are starting to pile up.

 

There is deliberate and there is indecisive. Some mistake the latter for the former.

[Muggah]

The deal for Oswalt or Jackson should have been all but signed sealed and delivered before he dumped his SS. They have done a lot of things ass-backward this offseason. To start with' date=' they didn't lock down the compensation for Theo before they gave him permission to negotiate. Now, with no leverage we will get next to nothing. Second, the offer arbitration to Ortiz. That one speaks for itself, and i am a huge Ortiz fan. Third, they dump our starting SS who hit close to .300 last year to shed salary to make room for a starting pitcher, but it has become apparent that no deal was close to being in place for a pitcher at the time they dumped Scutaro.[/quote']

 

It just looks that way today. In the coming weeks their media lackies will explain (ad nauseum) how all this was just part of Ben's brilliant master plan and why that makes him the best GM in the business.

 

Oh, and I forgot, they'll tell us too how this all adds up to a 95 win team that grabs a playoff spot.

 

Be patient.

[a700hitter]

Astros Sign Zach Duke

By Ben Nicholson-Smith [January 27 at 1:21pm CST]

 

The Astros signed left-hander Zach Duke to a minor league contract that includes an invitation to Spring Training, Alyson Footer of the Astros tweets. Duke a native of Clifton, Texas, spent the 2011 season with the Diamondbacks.

 

Duke, 28, posted a 4.93 ERA with 3.8 K/9, 2.2 BB/9 and a 49.6% ground ball rate in 76 2/3 innings last year. The 2009 All-Star owns a 4.56 ERA with 4.6 K/9, 2.4 BB/9 and a 49.0% ground ball rate in seven seasons with Arizona and Pittsburgh. SFX represents Duke.

Could this be a precursor to moving Wandy or Bret Myers?

[jung]

Well BC has been preparing us with this "I am content to go into ST with the team as is stuff" and if the numbers that have been tossed around are accurate it is hard for me to take the efforts they are making with Oswalt and Jackson seriously, not because other teams have apparently been tossing the same numbers at those to pitchers but because I suspect it will take something in addition to lure either one of them over to the AL East. However I do think they will end up with some kind of SP, probably not even Floyd but somebody.

[User Name]

If the Sox trade for/sign a good SP, this thread is going to be so delicious to read. So easy being an armchair GM.

[iortiz]

If we sign a solid SP everybody will be happy.

[.372]

I hope we trade for Gavin Floyd. I prefer him to the free agent starting pitchers available.

[mvp 78]

If Ben is paring payroll, why is he automatically at fault? Obviously, this comes from an ownership directive. If he's subject to constraints from above, how is he automatically a "boob." Clearly, ownership has a hardon for Ortiz (remember the dumb "greatest clutch player" plaque they gave him) and didn't want to alienate the "fans" by losing the most recogizable player at the expense of overloading the payroll on a DH.

 

IMO, fault here should hit ownership saquarely in the nuts first and foremost.

 

All this talk about Ben's character is foolish at best. Is he the best GM in the game? No. Is he the worst? Probably not. It's just way too soon to really have a good read on his abilities. You don't build a team overnight.

[iortiz]

I wonder, For what is he accountable/responsible, then?

 

All I know is that GMs manage baseball operations including trading/FA signings, don't they?

[.372]

I wonder how many Ortiz jerseys the Red Sox Store sells.

[User Name]

I wonder, For what is he accountable/responsible, then?

 

All I know is that GMs manage baseball operations including trading/FA signings, don't they?

 

Because of the situation in which Cherington took the job, it's impossible to know. Which is the point of calling any interpretation on his methodology/character follish at best.

[Elktonnick]

If Ben is paring payroll, why is he automatically at fault? Obviously, this comes from an ownership directive. If he's subject to constraints from above, how is he automatically a "boob." Clearly, ownership has a hardon for Ortiz (remember the dumb "greatest clutch player" plaque they gave him) and didn't want to alienate the "fans" by losing the most recogizable player at the expense of overloading the payroll on a DH.

 

IMO, fault here should hit ownership saquarely in the nuts first and foremost.

 

All this talk about Ben's character is foolish at best. Is he the best GM in the game? No. Is he the worst? Probably not. It's just way too soon to really have a good read on his abilities. You don't build a team overnight.

 

Ben is either the GM or he is not. What you are implying is he is the monkey and Larry Lucchino is the organ grinder. What is unmistakeable is he is the front office's point man. So he gets the credit and or the blame.

 

Whoever traded Scuturo with the intent of getting a pitcher and then doesn't get the pitcher looks like the boob. Whether it's Ben or Larry pick em.

 

I don't know Ben Cherrington but I judge behavior. So my conclusions are based on his behavior. He behaves like an indecisive individual. If and when events prove him otherwise I will change my opinion based on measureable outcomes and results. So far the results are inconclusive but trending downward. If they trend upward hooray for Ben.

[.372]

Part of the job of any front office is to deliberately mislead other teams, the media and the fans so that no one knows what they may be trying to do next or what they have already failed to do.

[iortiz]

Ben is either the GM or he is not. What you are implying is he is the monkey and Larry Lucchino is the organ grinder. What is unmistakeable is he is the front office's point man. So he gets the credit and or the blame.

 

Whoever traded Scuturo with the intent of getting a pitcher and then doesn't get the pitcher looks like the boob. Whether it's Ben or Larry pick em.

 

I don't know Ben Cherrington but I judge behavior. So my conclusions are based on his behavior. He behaves like an indecisive individual. If and when events prove him otherwise I will change my opinion based on measureable outcomes and results. So far the results are inconclusive but trending downward. If they trend upward hooray for Ben.

 

All I can say is that he publicly has said that he is who makes the trades/signings (all the referent with baseball operations) and that he takes accountability for those decisions, so... based on that, to me, he takes the credit or the blame... or what? is he a liar?

[User Name]

You seem to not comprehend the extent to which the existence of the entity known as "Larry Lucchino" influences the Red Sox and their actions.

[mvp 78]

I wonder, For what is he accountable/responsible, then?

 

All I know is that GMs manage baseball operations including trading/FA signings, don't they?

 

He doesn't manage the check book though.

[User Name]

He doesn't manage the check book though.

 

That doesn't matter!!! All he needs to do is "Strongly request" more money and JH automatically opens the wallet!!!!

[mvp 78]

You seem to not comprehend the extent to which the existence of the entity known as "Larry Lucchino" influences the Red Sox and their actions.

 

f*** that guy.

[Elktonnick]

Part of the job of any front office is to deliberately mislead other teams' date=' the media and the fans so that no one knows what they may be trying to do next or what they have already failed to do.[/quote']

 

Any business which delibrately misleads its customers is doomed to failure in the long run. That is not the way to succeed in business or baseball.

[mvp 78]

That doesn't matter!!! All he needs to do is "Strongly request" more money and JH automatically opens the wallet!!!!

 

Aren't boobs usually good at getting $$$ from old men?

[mvp 78]

Part of the job of any front office is to deliberately mislead other teams' date=' the media and the fans so that no one knows what they may be trying to do next or what they have already failed to do.[/quote']

 

Right, revealing all of your cards is a horrible business move.

[a700hitter]

It doesn't matter who is at fault. They are all part of the FO. If you want to blame the FO generically, it makes no difference to me. The address for accountability is Yawkey Way. However, until Ben or Larry or JH says otherwise, I think it is fair to attribute normal GM functions to Benny Boy. Several times we have read that they are not going to limit themselves to the LT cap, so I guess if they are not giving Ben $ they are all a bunch of liars. Frankly, I'd prefer that Ben was just going through some growing pains in his new job or even that he wasn't very good at it rather than think he and the rest of the FO are liars.

[iortiz]

It doesn't matter who is at fault. They are all part of the FO. If you want to blame the FO generically' date=' it makes no difference to me. The address for accountability is Yawkey Way. However, until Ben or Larry or JH says otherwise, I think it is fair to attribute normal GM functions to Benny Boy. Several times we have read that they are not going to limit themselves to the LT cap, so I guess if they are not giving Ben $ they are all a bunch of liars. Frankly, I'd prefer that Ben was just going through some growing pains in his new job or even that he wasn't very good at it rather than think he and the rest of the FO are liars.[/quote']

 

+1.

 

Good perspective.

[Elktonnick]

Right' date=' revealing all of your cards is a horrible business move.[/quote']

 

Decieving your customers is.

[Bellhorn04]

Decieving your customers is.

 

In what way are they deceiving the customers?

[Elktonnick]

In what way are they deceiving the customers?

 

Read the thread!