2011-2012 Offseason Thread

[Palodios]

This has been a polar opposite offseason compared to last year.

 

Brutal. Boring. This is typically an extremely exciting time. This year, it's just bleh.

 

You know its a bad offseason when people get excited about Cody Ross:lol:

[a700hitter]

No idea.

 

By the way - Is anyone else looking forward to next offseason when Lackey, Ortiz, Youk, Jenks, and DiceK are off our books, and we can go out and sign Cole Hamels??

 

Lester - Hamels - Beckett - Buchholz - Bard/Aceves/Lackey/Wilson??

 

That's going to be sick.

This off season has been like the baseball version of the movie Groundhog Day. I need this off season to end, and I am not looking forward to another one yet.

[VA Sox Fan]

Ben Cherington: General Manager of the Boston Red Sox.

 

seabeachfred: Reactionary poster at Talksox.

 

When it comes to baseball acumen, i would wager my house on option number one.

 

 

 

He probably ended up getting a minor league deal because of a lack of interest. That should tell you something.

 

This board has become a cesspool of negative, whiney, reactionary posts from people who actually, honestly, seriously think they know more than everyone else including the FO.

 

f*** all of this f***ing ********.

[a700hitter]

I'd be thrilled with Edwin Jackson honestly. Give him 1/9mm. He's off the books next year. Ross is off the books next year, too.

 

Between Ross (3mm), EJax (9mm), Ortiz (12.6mm), DiceK (8.7mm), Youk (10.5mm), and Jenks (6mm), we will clear $49mm off of our LT calc for next year. Get Hamels for 5/90-100, and we're all set.

I am with you on this, but who figured that Jackson would get more on a 1 year contract than Oswalt. I never would have guessed that.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Ortiz and Youk are middle of order bats. You have an idea in replacement with Middlebrooks and Lavarnway? Thats not how it works.

 

Why not?? Middlebrooks and Lavarnway are both guys who will put up 20-25 HR a season.

 

I'd much, much, much rather have Cole Hamels then Youk and Ortiz.

[User Name]

Ortiz and Youk are middle of order bats. You have an idea in replacement with Middlebrooks and Lavarnway? Thats not how it works.

 

Hey, that's what i've been saying about Ortiz all offseason. That production ain't easy to replace.

[a700hitter]

This board has become a cesspool of negative, whiney, reactionary posts from people who actually, honestly, seriously think they know more than everyone else including the FO.

 

f*** all of this f***ing ********.

Right back atcha.:harhar::thumbsup::thumbsup:

[Palodios]

This board has become a cesspool of negative, whiney, reactionary posts from people who actually, honestly, seriously think they know more than everyone else including the FO.

 

f*** all of this f***ing ********.

 

Oh come on... unless Wheeler is hurt, that was a terrible move:lol:

[Elktonnick]

This board has become a cesspool of negative, whiney, reactionary posts from people who actually, honestly, seriously think they know more than everyone else including the FO.

 

f*** all of this f***ing ********.

 

There is negativity and then there is reality. We aren't being negative just realistic. As Thomas Aquinas said "Life is tough"

[a700hitter]

You know its a bad offseason when people get excited about Cody Ross:lol:

Sad but true. Funny in a way too.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Hey' date=' that's what i've been saying about Ortiz all offseason. That production ain't easy to replace.[/quote']

 

But in 2013?? Ortiz, 2 years older than he is now?

 

Maybe it's just me, but bring in some young blood IMO.

[User Name]

Oh come on... unless Wheeler is hurt' date=' that was a terrible move:lol:[/quote']

 

I keep saying there's a reason he only got a minor league deal if he's as good as you say. Sometimes "The Writing is one the wall".

[User Name]

But in 2013?? Ortiz, 2 years older than he is now?

 

Maybe it's just me, but bring in some young blood IMO.

 

I mean for this season. Next season, Buh-bye Papi, hello Lavarnway!

[Station 13]

Why not?? Middlebrooks and Lavarnway are both guys who will put up 20-25 HR a season.

 

I'd much, much, much rather have Cole Hamels then Youk and Ortiz.

 

There's plenty of garbage 20-25 guys like Reynolds, Soriano, Ugla.......

 

We need sure things and prospects can become bust. Slowly those guys will work themselves into the lineup. Not come in and suddenly is tag to replace two of our best hitters.

[SoxFanForsyth]

I mean for this season. Next season' date=' Buh-bye Papi, hello Lavarnway![/quote']

 

That's what I was saying, and what Station was arguing against (and what you ultimately agreed on).

[User Name]

That's what I was saying' date=' and what Station was arguing against (and what you ultimately agreed on).[/quote']

 

Oh my bad. I misinterpreted your position.

[SoxFanForsyth]

There's plenty of garbage 20-25 guys like Reynolds, Soriano, Ugla.......

 

We need sure things and prospects can become bust. Slowly those guys will work themselves into the lineup. Not come in and suddenly is tag to replace two of our best hitters.

 

Youkilis is hardly one of our best hitters when he has played 1 full season (162 games) over the past 2 years.

 

I'd definitely take WMB over Youk if he excels half as much as he did last year in AA/AAA.

 

And as far as Lavarnway goes - you can't hold on to Papi forever. It will absolutely be time to let him walk next offseason.

 

But I'm sure as soon as he hits .220 this April, you'll be screaming for Lavarnway.

[a700hitter]

Oh come on... unless Wheeler is hurt' date=' that was a terrible move:lol:[/quote']Wheeler is a New England guy who grew up rooting for the Sox. It would be very odd to me that he wouldn't want any part of the Sox to take a minor league contract with Guardians. He's from Rhode Island. He could have taken a minor league contract and played in Pawtucket near home.

[Elktonnick]

Wheeler is a New England guy who grew up rooting for the Sox. It would be very odd to me that he wouldn't want any part of the Sox to take a minor league contract with Guardians. He's from Rhode Island. He could have taken a minor league contract and played in Pawtucket near home.

 

You are correct. I was wondering that myself. I suspect there is more to this then we'll ever know.

[Palodios]

I keep saying there's a reason he only got a minor league deal if he's as good as you say. Sometimes "The Writing is one the wall".

 

On occasion, there are arguments on this board where one member posts stats about a player to defend their own position, and another member puts up weak evidence, and uses no real stats whatsoever. Please don't join the second group.... if you think he's done, atleast throw something else out there.

 

Maybe he likes the low cost of living in Cleveland, maybe he managed to buy Lebron's house on the cheap, maybe he fell in love with Suns, or maybe he just happened to be coming off a mediocre 2011 in an offseason where a ton of relief pitching was available, doesn't have much for a market, and has a really bad agent.

[User Name]

On occasion, there are arguments on this board where one member posts stats about a player to defend their own position, and another member puts up weak evidence, and uses no real stats whatsoever. Please don't join the second group.... if you think he's done, atleast throw something else out there.

 

Excuse me?

 

He had an awful year in Boston, and he was going to cost, as you put it..."2 or 3 million". With the way the Red Sox have handled their finances this off-season, how is it surprising that they chose not to bring back a guy who cannot get lefties out?

 

Also, you don't know if he didn't want to come back to Boston. After last year's clusterf***, that's certainly a possibility.

 

Don't talk like, at 34 years old and coming off a down year, Wheeler is a certain investment. THAT is a weak argument.

[Elktonnick]

Ever been to Cleveland? No one likes Cleveland, why do think the Browns moved to Baltimore?

[Palodios]

There's plenty of garbage 20-25 guys like Reynolds, Soriano, Ugla.......

 

We need sure things and prospects can become bust. Slowly those guys will work themselves into the lineup. Not come in and suddenly is tag to replace two of our best hitters.

 

I really disagree on Ugla. Even with last year, he's been one of the most consistent second basemen in the majors.

[iortiz]

On occasion, there are arguments on this board where one member posts stats about a player to defend their own position, and another member puts up weak evidence, and uses no real stats whatsoever. Please don't join the second group.... if you think he's done, atleast throw something else out there.

 

Maybe he likes the low cost of living in Cleveland, maybe he managed to buy Lebron's house on the cheap, maybe he fell in love with Suns, or maybe he just happened to be coming off a mediocre 2011 in an offseason where a ton of relief pitching was available, doesn't have much for a market, and has a really bad agent.

 

somehow suns is always remembered.

[iortiz]

Wheeler is a New England guy who grew up rooting for the Sox. It would be very odd to me that he wouldn't want any part of the Sox to take a minor league contract with Guardians. He's from Rhode Island. He could have taken a minor league contract and played in Pawtucket near home.

 

This.

 

I was about to make the same point.

[a700hitter]

Ever been to Cleveland? No one likes Cleveland' date=' why do think the Browns moved to Baltimore?[/quote']Their minor league affiliate is in Columbus. I visited there once. I can't remember a thing about the place.

[seabeachfred]

Ben Cherington: General Manager of the Boston Red Sox.

 

seabeachfred: Reactionary poster at Talksox.

 

When it comes to baseball acumen, i would wager my house on option number one.

 

 

 

He probably ended up getting a minor league deal because of a lack of interest. That should tell you something.

 

You might lose that house User. Cherington is GM of the Red Sox and right now the best grade I would give him for his current performance is a "C", and when it comes to baseball acumen you might be in for a shock. I coached baseball for over 30 years, developed young players and many of them went pro and a few made it to the Big Show. I also have a background in scouting and if you ask what team I scouted for it was no team. I SCOUTED FOR SCOUTS who wanted to know what I thought of some marginal players who might be worth a chance. Now for that acumen you're talking about it is obvious that this is what I wouldn't have done.

 

1. I WOULD HAVE NEVER OFFERED ORTIZ ARBITRATION and I kept repeating that over and over again on this and another board. That opinion did not change after the fact.

 

2. I WOULD HAVE MADE IT CLEAR THAT VARITEK AND WAKEFIELD WERE FINISHED WITH THE RED SOX, and would have sent them letters to that effect congratulating them for their enormous contributions to the team and best wishes in the future. I WOULD NOT HAVE ISSUED AN INVITATION TO COME TO ST and create another distraction.

 

3. I would have gone all out to nab a top notch starting pitcher and with that extra money not given to Ortiz I most likely would have been able to get someone t hat we don't currently have and might not get.

 

4. I WOULD GLADLY HAVE GIVEN RYAN LAVARNWAY A FULL SHOT AT THE DH because I believe I am a good judge of talent because of my coaching and scouting experience and I know in my bones that this young man is a real comer if they don't waste him with more seasoning when he doesn't need it with that stick of his. He also could be our third catcher and that is depth we could use. In a year I think he will be ready to take over at catcher.

 

5. I WOULD HAVE GONE TO JOHN HENRY and strongly req uested some money and made the case that with a little investment we had a chance to have the kind of year we should have had last year. There is no record of Cherington ever making that case with his boss. He needs to be more aggressive to state his case and he doesn't seem to have the energy to make that case. Would I have gotten the money? If I made the case, yes, I think Henry wants to win. There needs to be an urgency shown and Cherington hasn't shown it.

[iortiz]

How much did the Guardians pay to Wheeler?

[Palodios]

Excuse me?

 

He had an awful year in Boston, and he was going to cost, as you put it..."2 or 3 million". With the way the Red Sox have handled their finances this off-season, how is it surprising that they chose not to bring back a guy who cannot get lefties out?

 

Also, you don't know if he didn't want to come back to Boston. After last year's clusterf***, that's certainly a possibility.

 

Don't talk like, at 34 years old and coming off a down year, Wheeler is a certain investment. THAT is a weak argument.

 

The Red Sox have been loading up on all this depth this offseason. Cook, Silva, Padilla, Mortensen.... do you think any single one of those guys could contribute like Wheeler did in 2010? I don't think its even close. They paid 4 million a year for Wakefield for a decade, and they can't pay 2 million on Wheeler? I'm not buying it.

[User Name]

You might lose that house User. Cherington is GM of the Red Sox and right now the best grade I would give him for his current performance is a "C"' date=' and when it comes to baseball acumen you might be in for a shock. I coached baseball for over 30 years, developed young players and many of them went pro and a few made it to the Big Show. I also have a background in scouting and if you ask what team I scouted for it was no team. I SCOUTED FOR SCOUTS who wanted to know what I thought of some marginal players who might be worth a chance. Now for that acumen you're talking about it is obvious that this is what I wouldn't have done.[/quote']

 

1. I WOULD HAVE NEVER OFFERED ORTIZ ARBITRATION and I kept repeating that over and over again on this and another board. That opinion did not change after the fact.

 

I'll give you this one. But how do you replace his production?

2. I WOULD HAVE MADE IT CLEAR THAT VARITEK AND WAKEFIELD WERE FINISHED WITH THE RED SOX, and would have sent them letters to that effect congratulating them for their enormous contributions to the team and best wishes in the future. I WOULD NOT HAVE ISSUED AN INVITATION TO COME TO ST and create another distraction.

 

Neither of them are invited to ST. You keep harping on this point although it has been proven false by both Cherington and Valentine who actually work for the Red Sox. Move on.

 

3. I would have gone all out to nab a top notch starting pitcher and with that extra money not given to Ortiz I most likely would have been able to get someone t hat we don't currently have and might not get.

 

This is conjecture until the pitching situation has resolved itself. Also, why would you tie yourself long-term to an inferior pitcher when a great crop of SP will be FA next year? Bad idea.

 

4. I WOULD GLADLY HAVE GIVEN RYAN LAVARNWAY A FULL SHOT AT THE DH because I believe I am a good judge of talent because of my coaching and scouting experience and I know in my bones that this young man is a real comer if they don't waste him with more seasoning when he doesn't need it with that stick of his. He also could be our third catcher and that is depth we could use. In a year I think he will be ready to take over at catcher.

 

Wrong on this too. They view Lavarnway as a C, where he has the most value. It's easy to find a DH who can hit, but hard to find a catcher who can. Your "coaching and scouting experience" are so wrong about this it's not even funny.

 

5. I WOULD HAVE GONE TO JOHN HENRY and strongly req uested some money and made the case that with a little investment we had a chance to have the kind of year we should have had last year. There is no record of Cherington ever making that case with his boss. He needs to be more aggressive to state his case and he doesn't seem to have the energy to make that case. Would I have gotten the money? If I made the case, yes, I think Henry wants to win. There needs to be an urgency shown and Cherington hasn't shown it.

 

How do you know he didn't? You don't know the internal workings of the Sox. This is speculation at best.

 

Cherington 4, Fred 1. I keep my house, yay!