2011-2012 Offseason Thread

[iortiz]

His age alone makes him high risk for injury. You know that older players tend to get injured more often and take longer to heal. Thats just the way it is. Past injury history is no guarantee at all of future injury free performance.

 

You are right pumpsie and mostly when they are not that young anymore.

 

But IMO I still believe he can help us, and I prefer to go over the LT and not give up our top prospects who BTW they are not a bunch.

[example1]

In a heartbeat! The guy had a 3.05 ERA last year' date=' and a 3.45 career ERA, and hasn't missed any time in the last two years. I don't care if he turns into a 4.50 ERA starter here, for 25 million, that's a bargain.[/quote']

 

Agree.

 

As we said, solid pitchers are making +-15 M these days, I still see fuel in his tank for at least the next couple of seasons.

 

Also, we wouldn't give prospects.

 

Agree x3. Kuroda could be the guy. Consistent, veteran, low drama, healthier than Oswalt. I like it.

[a700hitter]

Agree x3. Kuroda could be the guy. Consistent' date=' veteran, low drama, healthier than Oswalt. I like it.[/quote']There's a big obstacle with regard to Kuroda--- the MFYs. I think we might have to keep looking.

[iortiz]

There's a big obstacle with regard to Kuroda--- the MFYs. I think we might have to keep looking.

 

What other solid options are in the FA?... Unless we give up our top prospects for a guy like Garza. What I read, seems like Theo is open trade him but he is selling him to the media as "the guy you could build your rotation around" so... in other words he wants the Aztecs' gold and something more for him, , besides, I'm not sure if we have the pieces they need, of course if we pursue a guy like him.

[User Name]

What is Ben the Boob doing? It's December 24th and all he's come up with is Melancon and Punto? What a procrastinator! He's stealing the money from RSN.

 

Also, a700hitter's right (as always, that's why he's , my favorite poster) and we may have to keep looking for another starter. I've got years of business experience, and trust me, this is all on Ben. These deals you strike right away while the iron is hot or or this happens. Oh Ben!

[sleepyhollow]

I agree that Kuroda will go to the yankees. I'd take Oswalt if he can stay healthy.

BTW, we have a mutiny in LF as CC is not returning any of Bobby V's messages.

Too bad we can't trade him and replace him with a couple of SP and/or a LFer.

[Bellhorn04]

If the Yankees are seriously interested in Kuroda we better move on is right. Kuroda's agent is just milking the situation for a few extra dollars before the Yanks makes the announcement.

 

Oswalt?

[mvp 78]

I agree that Kuroda will go to the yankees. I'd take Oswalt if he can stay healthy.

BTW, we have a mutiny in LF as CC is not returning any of Bobby V's messages.

Too bad we can't trade him and replace him with a couple of SP and/or a LFer.

 

If it's April and they are still not on speaking terms, then it'll be an issue. I still think BV should've kept his trap shut about it.

[Elktonnick]

If it's April and they are still not on speaking terms' date=' then it'll be an issue. I still think BV should've kept his trap shut about it.[/quote']

 

Why? Crybaby Carl clearly has an attitude problem. If he starts out as badly as he finished the only buffer between him and the media will be his manager. Let face it Carl Crawford is digging a hole for himself. He is handling it stupidly!

[User Name]

This team has unlimited resources and all they think about is making money. They have not made the moves that i, as a Red Sox fan, am entitled to and have come to expect. Like many others, i know this inept FO's thinking and have come up with a plan that better suits what i as a Red Sox fan, am entitled to.

 

1) Forget about the salary cap.

 

2) Trade for Hanley.

 

3) Trade for Mauer.

 

4) Trade for Felix.

 

5) Since there are no All-Stars available for RF, move Youk over to 1st, Scutaro to 3rd, and A-Gon to RF.

 

6) Win WS, screw the future.

 

That's a foolproof plan for victory! in 2012.

[mvp 78]

Why? Crybaby Carl clearly has an attitude problem. If he starts out as badly as he finished the only buffer between him and the media will be his manager. Let face it Carl Crawford is digging a hole for himself. He is handling it stupidly!

 

Another unclever nickname. Fantastic!

 

CC was one of the only players to call out other players in September. He did it in house and didn't cry to the media like BV.

[a700hitter]

Another unclever nickname. Fantastic!

 

CC was one of the only players to call out other players in September. He did it in house and didn't cry to the media like BV.

If he called out players in September, but he did it in house and not in the media, then how would we know about it?:dunno:

[iortiz]

If the Yankees are seriously interested in Kuroda we better move on is right. Kuroda's agent is just milking the situation for a few extra dollars before the Yanks makes the announcement.

 

Oswalt?

 

Ohhh, I forgot Oswald. I prefer Kuroda over Oswald, these days. But If they think that Oswald is healthy and they think he can stay healthy, then sign Oswald, if Kuroda is signed by NY.

[a700hitter]

Ohhh' date=' I forgot Oswald. I prefer Kuroda over Oswald, these days. But If they think that Oswald is healthy and they think he can stay healthy, then sign Oswald, if Kuroda is signed by NY.[/quote']Of the options that are out there, Kuroda, Oswalt and Jackson, none of them will be cheap. Oswalt has said that he would take a 1 year contract, but it will probably be in the $15 million range. They are all going to have big price tags. The Sox are not going to win a bidding war with the Yankees. They should just move on to the next guy and bite the bullet and get it done. If they don't sign one of the other two and there is no trade pending, we will start the season with 3 proven starters one of which is coming off a broken back. That wouldn't be a good situation. I still like the idea of prying David Wright from the Mets for prospects and then trading Youkilis for a starting pitcher and a prospect.

[mvp 78]

If he called out players in September' date=' but he did it in house and not in the media, then how would we know about it?:dunno:[/quote']

 

The only time he called out anyone in the media was when he said "go ask the captain." i believe it was another player (Pedroia radio interview) who mentionned CC's "come to Jesus meeting" and that was after the season. So various people ripped him during the season for not caring, but found out differently after the fact.

[iortiz]

Of the options that are out there' date=' Kuroda, Oswalt and Jackson, none of them will be cheap. Oswalt has said that he would take a 1 year contract, but it will probably be in the $15 million range. They are all going to have big price tags. The Sox are not going to win a bidding war with the Yankees. They should just move on to the next guy and bite the bullet and get it done. If they don't sign one of the other two and there is no trade pending, we will start the season with 3 proven starters one of which is coming off a broken back. That wouldn't be a good situation. I still like the idea of prying David Wright from the Mets for prospects and then trading Youkilis for a starting pitcher and a prospect.[/quote']

 

Jackson is another good option.

 

As I said, whatever the name is, we just can't go like this next season (IMO we won't), we need to land at least another SP, and Hopefully Youk and Buch comeback healthy, Beckett doesn't get an injury, Crawford comebacks and A-God and Ells put solid numbers again. If we do that, we will be a very solid team despite the BP would be a whole mystery to me.

 

Btw how is Youk these days? The last thing I heard he was going to surgery, wasn't he? also, he needs to be in shape and lose a couple of pounds.

[FredLynn]

I agree that Kuroda will go to the yankees. I'd take Oswalt if he can stay healthy.

BTW, we have a mutiny in LF as CC is not returning any of Bobby V's messages.

Too bad we can't trade him and replace him with a couple of SP and/or a LFer.

 

Indeed we do have another spoiled a-hole on the team in LF. How incredibly arrogant that this spoiled turd refuses to meet with his new boss. CRAPFORD. No worries. As the season progresses Bobby V will straighten him and Beckett and some of the other spoiled SOBs on this team out and by the end of the season everyone will have come in line or they will no longer be playing for this team:

 

Crawford's snit shows the Bobby V. Era has begun

 

 

In other words, MUTINY IN LEFT FIELD!

 

 

Well, no one ever said it wouldn't be a fun ride with Bobby V.

 

He's only a month into the job and, apparently, Bobby Valentine is being dissed by one of his key players. By all accounts, Carl Crawford -- who, it appears, hasn't forgotten some harsh criticisms leveled by Valentine during Bobby's days as an ESPN analyst -- has ignored all of Valentine's attempts to contact him this offseason . . . and Valentine himself doesn't seem sure Crawford would talk to him even if he showed up on the left fielder's doorstep.

 

 

 

"I'm going to down [to Crawford's home in Houston] and watch a workout, anyway," Valentine told Comcast SportsNet's Jessica Moran on Thursday. "If a conversation follows the watching of the workout, that'd be cool.

 

"But we're not here to talk, necessarily. We're here to play."

 

Say what?

 

Crawford's not looking very good in all this; he appears petty and small, overreacting to the sort of thing a professional athlete is supposed to be able to handle. Valentine, after all, was just doing his job at the time.

 

But now he has a new one, and this isn't getting it off to a very good start.

 

Eventually, they're going to have to hash this out; you can't have one of your regulars refusing to speak to the boss. Still, the new manager was supposed to come in and smooth the waters that were roiled by last season's collapse. Instead, his very presence seems to have roiled them a bit more.

 

And did we expect anything less?

http://www.csnne.com/blog/redsox-talk/post/Crawfords-snit-shows-the-Bobby-V-Era-has?blockID=617898&feedID=10430

[FredLynn]

Jackson is another good option.

 

As I said, whatever the name is, we just can't go like this next season (IMO we won't), we need to land at least another SP, and Hopefully Youk and Buch comeback healthy, Beckett doesn't injury, Crawford comeback and A-God and Ells put solid numbers again. If we do that, we will be a very solid team despite the BP would be a whole mystery to me.

 

Btw how is Youk these days? The last thing I heard he was going to surgery, wasn't he? also, he needs to be in shape and lose a couple of pounds.

 

To his credit, Youkilis has been keeping his mouth shut. I am pretty sure he is not too happy about the loss of the Fenway Country Club like his buddies CRAPFORD and Beckett, but at least he has the good sense not to be a publicity magnet this winter, unlike his buddies.

[mvp 78]

Art Martone link? Gross.

[FredLynn]

Art Martone link? Gross.

 

Pay attention to the content and not the author. It makes it more palatable that way.

[a700hitter]

The only time he called out anyone in the media was when he said "go ask the captain." i believe it was another player (Pedroia radio interview) who mentionned CC's "come to Jesus meeting" and that was after the season. So various people ripped him during the season for not caring' date=' but found out differently after the fact.[/quote']Did any of the other players call out people in the media?

[iortiz]

I don't know whether this think about Crawford is true or not.

 

What I know is that Carl Crawford can't start slow again. He better put the numbers early in the season, otherwise this thing among others will play against him, regardless the pressure will be substantially more and I don't know how good is this guy handling even more pressure in an environment like Boston. Last season A-God, Ells, Ortiz among others made his job and somehow covered his bad numbers. Next season won't be the same. Next season people expect from him that once and for all put the numbers and make us forget his terrible debut season, and be the player we all saw in TB.

 

We'll see.

[Elktonnick]

Another unclever nickname. Fantastic!

 

CC was one of the only players to call out other players in September. He did it in house and didn't cry to the media like BV.

 

It's up to Crawford to prove himself. He stunk most of last season. His defensive play in left field was awful. He largely got a pass from the press.

 

Critcism of his batting stance is fair and not personal. Bobby V as an ESPN analyst was merely saying what most knowledgeable baseball people were thinking. Crawford is obviously sensitive about it. So it is reasonable to conclude he has been told this before. But he is stubborn and won't change. Ok let's see. That being said if he doesn't man up and get off to a good start he'll be run out town just like Renteria.

 

I don't think Crawford can handle the scrutiny of the Boston market. And that isn't Bobby V 's fault. Francona covered for these players and look where it got him. That's why the change.

[jung]

I don't understand this undying faith that "the Manager" is going to straighten out any of these guys with long term multimillion dollar contracts. The Manager is not going to be able to do s*** when it comes to those guys. In the case of Crawford they don't even have the trade option to hang over his head because nobody in his right mind would take even 80% of that mess of a contract.

 

Don't you guys get it? While I am sure they were not choreographed Beckett's and Crawford's first moves toward Valentine are independent responses from each player to the notion that V is going to "straighten them out". That notion was already advanced in the media by the time Beckett and Crawford had anything to say and that is their response. In fact for his part Crawford has no rational whatsoever for responding to V this way other than the one I just posed. He was not even identified as a bad apple last season, just as an underperforming player.

 

We keep looking forward to this season pointing to the baseball skill set represented by this team and ignoring the fact that they are still a bunch of *******s! It is a team full of f***ing losers and they are getting perilously close at least in my case to being a team that I will find hard to support. That has not happened in 58 years!

 

To be honest I am even beginning to come around to the "blow it up" option proposed by some of our posters. These guys are a joke.

 

There are times in people's lives, in the life spans of organizations when the only way up is to first hit rock bottom. Since we as fans and every other Tom, Dick and Harry has decided to help the Sox excuse and make excuses for the September collapse as some sort of anomaly this team has not as yet hit bottom. As Bill Parcell's often says "you are what you are" and that team was a third place AL East team. I am almost hoping they start 2012 and go right in the tank because I am not sure we are going anywhere with this bunch of chumps.

 

My God it is so bad, it is almost a Hollywood script. "Aging overpaid, underperforming athlete loses track of the reason why he ever started playing the game in the first place. He is instead totally consumed by media conscienceless, appearances, getting his props and his paycheck." Unfortunately the Sox have about ten of these idiots.

[Bellhorn04]

Good post, jung. I'm not at the same place you are, not yet anyway. But good post.

[Elktonnick]

I don't understand this undying faith that "the Manager" is going to straighten out any of these guys with long term multimillion dollar contracts. The Manager is not going to be able to do s*** when it comes to those guys. In the case of Crawford they don't even have the trade option to hang over his head because nobody in his right mind would take even 80% of that mess of a contract.

 

Don't you guys get it? While I am sure they were not choreographed Beckett's and Crawford's first moves toward Valentine are independent responses from each player to the notion that V is going to "straighten them out". That notion was already advanced in the media by the time Beckett and Crawford had anything to say and that is their response. In fact for his part Crawford has no rational whatsoever for responding to V this way other than the one I just posed. He was not even identified as a bad apple last season, just as an underperforming player.

 

We keep looking forward to this season pointing to the baseball skill set represented by this team and ignoring the fact that they are still a bunch of *******s! It is a team full of f***ing losers and they are getting perilously close at least in my case to being a team that I will find hard to support. That has not happened in 58 years!

 

To be honest I am even beginning to come around to the "blow it up" option proposed by some of our posters. These guys are a joke.

 

There are times in people's lives, in the life spans of organizations when the only way up is to first hit rock bottom. Since we as fans and every other Tom, Dick and Harry has decided to help the Sox excuse and make excuses for the September collapse as some sort of anomaly this team has not as yet hit bottom. As Bill Parcell's often says "you are what you are" and that team was a third place AL East team. I am almost hoping they start 2012 and go right in the tank because I am not sure we are going anywhere with this bunch of chumps.

 

My God it is so bad, it is almost a Hollywood script. "Aging overpaid, underperforming athlete loses track of the reason why he ever started playing the game in the first place. He is instead totally consumed by media conscienceless, appearances, getting his props and his paycheck." Unfortunately the Sox have about ten of these idiots.

 

Peer pressure and pride are really the only ways.

[example1]

Wow. More virtually unreadable catastrophizing and the season hasn't started yet. HELL the calendar year of the season hasn't started yet. Crawford and Bobby V haven't become best friends yet? Oh my! Beckett didn't start off by congratulating Bobby V for the new job. Oh no! Things are utterly terrible right now!

 

I heard that Beckett was pissed because he was intentionally pitching extra slow against the Yankees due to comments from a Yankee bench coach complaining about it while Beckett was mowing them down. Valentines connents backed up the yankees and completely ignored the fact that what Beckett was doing was effective against a very good team. Beckett figured he should keep pissing off the Yankees. I hope Bobby V will support the approach if it leads to beating the Yankees, rather than forcing Beckett to speed up with worse results.

[FredLynn]

Wow. More virtually unreadable catastrophizing and the season hasn't started yet. HELL the calendar year of the season hasn't started yet. Crawford and Bobby V haven't become best friends yet? Oh my! Beckett didn't start off by congratulating Bobby V for the new job. Oh no! Things are utterly terrible right now!

 

I heard that Beckett was pissed because he was intentionally pitching extra slow against the Yankees due to comments from a Yankee bench coach complaining about it while Beckett was mowing them down. Valentines connents backed up the yankees and completely ignored the fact that what Beckett was doing was effective against a very good team. Beckett figured he should keep pissing off the Yankees. I hope Bobby V will support the approach if it leads to beating the Yankees, rather than forcing Beckett to speed up with worse results.

 

Beckett pitches slowly against everyone. Maybe a bit slower against the Yankees, but he is TOO slow IMO.

No "normal employee" treats their new boss that way. These are spoiled *******s who have an entitlement attitude that WILL disappear. No, the manager cannot trade Crawford, but he certainly has ways to make his life miserable if he enlists a willing media.

This transition is going to be fun to watch.

[FredLynn]

I don't understand this undying faith that "the Manager" is going to straighten out any of these guys with long term multimillion dollar contracts. The Manager is not going to be able to do s*** when it comes to those guys. In the case of Crawford they don't even have the trade option to hang over his head because nobody in his right mind would take even 80% of that mess of a contract.

 

Don't you guys get it? While I am sure they were not choreographed Beckett's and Crawford's first moves toward Valentine are independent responses from each player to the notion that V is going to "straighten them out". That notion was already advanced in the media by the time Beckett and Crawford had anything to say and that is their response. In fact for his part Crawford has no rational whatsoever for responding to V this way other than the one I just posed. He was not even identified as a bad apple last season, just as an underperforming player.

 

We keep looking forward to this season pointing to the baseball skill set represented by this team and ignoring the fact that they are still a bunch of *******s! It is a team full of f***ing losers and they are getting perilously close at least in my case to being a team that I will find hard to support. That has not happened in 58 years!

 

To be honest I am even beginning to come around to the "blow it up" option proposed by some of our posters. These guys are a joke.

 

There are times in people's lives, in the life spans of organizations when the only way up is to first hit rock bottom. Since we as fans and every other Tom, Dick and Harry has decided to help the Sox excuse and make excuses for the September collapse as some sort of anomaly this team has not as yet hit bottom. As Bill Parcell's often says "you are what you are" and that team was a third place AL East team. I am almost hoping they start 2012 and go right in the tank because I am not sure we are going anywhere with this bunch of chumps.

 

My God it is so bad, it is almost a Hollywood script. "Aging overpaid, underperforming athlete loses track of the reason why he ever started playing the game in the first place. He is instead totally consumed by media conscienceless, appearances, getting his props and his paycheck." Unfortunately the Sox have about ten of these idiots.

 

Geez Jung...you are more of a pessimist than I am!

I have faith in Bobby V to turn this around. He is off to a good start, making it known to the media that Beckett insulted him on their first phone call and that Crawford is refusing to return his calls. How do you think that will play with those two losers? They have two choices: either come around and tow the company line or endure an entire season of being made asses of in the media. Assuming they are not totally devoid of intelligence, I think they will come around, sooner or later. Valentine will give them the chance to do that, but if they fail, its going to be very tough on them. The media here can be vicious. And eventually, if they pout, they will sit. And thats just fine with me.

[iortiz]

I don't care if Beckett makes his thing (take 20 s or whatever) as long as he puts 2011 numbers again, I think V won't bother either anymore.