2011-2012 Offseason Thread

[a700hitter]

Several us post on several sites. I post on four sites. I do so because I love the game and devour information about it.

I think she is trying to tell you that we don't like your type around here. Seriously, we've agreed and disagreed strongly at times, but we kept it civil and we kept the discussion focused on the issues not each other. That's the way it should be.

[Muggah]

Conjecture is what the Hot Stove is all about. If you don't like what we post or think you can either disagre or ignore. But I at least will continue to post what I think if nothing else because lively discussion about baseball is enjoyable. Who know we ll may learn something in the process. It is better than all posting only consensus opinions.

 

Well put, Elk. Seems as though there's some posters here too who think they own sole rights to opinion.

 

Boy are they sadly mistaken.

[VA Sox Fan]

People should be disagreeing with their point of view instead of objecting to the posters.

 

It's very hard to find much positive to extoll right now when the biggest positive move is Melancon. He ain't Papelbon or Bard no matter how much we would like to wish it to be, and I am really hoping that the guy will be good. Benny Boy has been honest all along which is the most positive thing that I could say about him thus far. He said that he would understand if papelbon got a deal that he couldn't turn down. He made it clear that Paps wasn't on the team's radar. He said that they wouldn't make any big moves at the Winter Meetings and they didn't. He said that they would make moves after the meetings that would be "under the radar" and that too was accurate. Other than that, he has done little positive. The Ortiz arbitration offer was a ridiculous blunder. We are waiting for the positive. He has an entire bullpen to rebuild. If he is able to build a good bullpen, they will have a very good team. He hasn't yet. When he does, he will get his props.

 

I think you find it hard to be positive, no matter what. And the entourage helps you in some instances. But, seriously, 2012 has got to be better! My 2011 wasn't as bad as yours by far but it sucked.

 

I'm looking forward to a new year and season. Shoot me.

[VA Sox Fan]

Or' date=' we could just choose to ignore your insufferable whining and continue to point out the flaws we see in their methodology. There's room for both, my friend. If you don't think so, there's always the ignore button.[/quote']

 

And there is always Sauxheads and whatever other sites for you guys. Insufferable whining? Sounds more like some of you. Most notably Fred.

[User Name]

I think she is trying to tell you that we don't like your type around here. Seriously' date=' we've agreed and disagreed strongly at times, but we kept it civil and we kept the discussion focused on the issues not each other. That's the way it should be.[/quote']

 

I find this ironic since you (and some in the Sauxhead cast) love to take cheap shots at other posters and flaunt their self-assessed "superior intelligence", or flat out call names like sugarcoaters, sycophants, etc etc etc . You disagree with everything said before because the glove fits. True story.

 

Countdown until iortiz enters the thread to defend his master: 3.......2......1.......

[VA Sox Fan]

'Night all. Sleep well. Hope all is well with you and yours!!

[iortiz]

I woke up from my nap just in time for Let's Hate the Posters that We Don't Agree with Night. How very fascist of you all.

 

While some posters make opinions about the team and the game, other posters, the only thing that do is insult and post annoying things about other posters called "pessimist". The funny thing my friend, is that they claim themselves optimist and die-hard fans. They also order to stop annoying and bitching like if they were or had authority or something, interesting how this board works

 

I just get used to that crap

[mvp 78]

I have no problem with other people's opinions.

 

I just think some people have a fundamental misunderstanding about how the offseason works. A 25 man roster isn't created overnight.

 

Also, the whole "other board" gag is getting old. Let's stop posting about it please.

 

Also also, not to speak for VA but I believe her problem is with the attitude not the opinion.

[Bellhorn04]

'Night all. Sleep well. Hope all is well with you and yours!!

 

And the same to you.

[a700hitter]

I think you find it hard to be positive, no matter what. And the entourage helps you in some instances. But, seriously, 2012 has got to be better! My 2011 wasn't as bad as yours by far but it sucked.

 

I'm looking forward to a new year and season. Shoot me.

Baseball brings me enjoyment. I love to watch the game and discuss the game. That's positive I don't need to wave pom poms to feel positive about something. I always root for the Red Sox, no matter what players have been run out on the field. That doesn't translate into me having to be a fan of the FO or deluding myself into thinking the FO is doing a great job. I root for the guys on the field, not the guys in the suits in the offices. With regard to them the only interest I have is for them to give us a good team. If they don't, they will get my criticism.

[User Name]

Back to the Red Sox:

 

Red Sox Continue Pursuing Bailey, Others

By Ben Nicholson-Smith [December 15 at 8:15am CST]

 

The Red Sox strengthened their bullpen yesterday and they aren’t done yet. Boston continues pursuing relievers, including A’s closer Andrew Bailey, even after adding Mark Melancon, according to ESPN.com’s Buster Olney (on Twitter).

 

Boston may move Daniel Bard to the rotation and Alfredo Aceves might also start, so Boston's interest in relievers is no surprise. They've been linked to left-handers such as Darren Oliver and right-handers such as Ryan Madson throughout the offseason. Melancon joins Matt Albers, Scott Atchison, Bobby Jenks and Franklin Morales in Boston's projected bullpen.

 

GM Ben Cherington sounds comfortable with Melancon as a closer, according to Rob Bradford of WEEI.com (on Twitter). However, Bailey recently told Scott Lauber of the Boston Herald that he won't be surprised if the A's send him to an East Coast team like the Red Sox.

 

Thoughts on old-as-dirt Darren Oliver?

[Emmz]

I didn't think Buehrle's contract was that bad.

 

he got almost the same deal that Lackey got, at the same age. -.-

[Muggah]

Baseball brings me enjoyment. I love to watch the game and discuss the game. That's positive I don't need to wave pom poms to feel positive about something. I always root for the Red Sox' date=' no matter what players have been run out on the field. That doesn't translate into me having to be a fan of the FO or deluding myself into thinking the FO is doing a great job. I root for the guys on the field, not the guys in the suits in the offices. With regard to them the only interest I have is for them to give us a good team. If they don't, they will get my criticism.[/quote']

 

 

Well put.

[a700hitter]

'Night all. Sleep well. Hope all is well with you and yours!!

And you called me old for taking a short nap. Jeez, it's 9:30.

[Elktonnick]

I think you find it hard to be positive, no matter what. And the entourage helps you in some instances. But, seriously, 2012 has got to be better! My 2011 wasn't as bad as yours by far but it sucked.

 

I'm looking forward to a new year and season. Shoot me.

 

Why does 2012 have to be better? I looking forward to the new year also. There is no contradiction in that.

[a700hitter]

he got almost the same deal that Lackey got' date=' at the same age. -.-[/quote']The problem with the lackey deal is that they gave him the deal on the heels of 2 seasons where he had arm problems. Buehrle has had no such issues.

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

Back to the Red Sox:

 

 

 

Thoughts on old-as-dirt Darren Oliver?

Isn't Oliver like 44?

[iortiz]

he got almost the same deal that Lackey got' date=' at the same age. -.-[/quote']

 

I thought that we agreed that they were not the same contracts Emmz.

 

60 vs 80 are almost the same? Not even close, regardless Lackey signed two years ago. On the other hand, if you mean year by year, still is not the best approach to compare their contracts IMO.

[Emmz]

1 more year on the Buehrle deal and it's the same, and Lackey won't even last his entire contract.

 

If you're opposed to one, you should be opposed to the other. I said I would never defend Lackey ever again, I did not say I think Buehrle wasn't overpriced.

[a700hitter]

Why does 2012 have to be better? I looking forward to the new year also. There is no contradiction in that.

It's funny that you should say that. Met fans thought the same thing after 2007, but 2008 ended the same way.

 

I remember that a Jet fan said to me after the 1995 season that it couldn't get worse. They had a 3-14 record. i told him that I wasn't so sure about that. In 1996, they had a 1-15 season.:lol:

[User Name]

Isn't Oliver like 44?

 

41.

 

Still, last season he put up a 2.29 ERA in 51 IP with a 1.13 WHIP, and 7.8 K/9. In Texas.

 

Even better, he managed to get both lefties and righties out last year, keeping them both to an OPS under .600.

[Emmz]

The problem with the lackey deal is that they gave him the deal on the heels of 2 seasons where he had arm problems. Buehrle has had no such issues.

 

You think your diagnosis of his arm problems is better than the Red Sox? Lackey's arm issues haven't even been a factor here, he's just sucked.

[a700hitter]

Isn't Oliver like 44?

We had him more than 10 years ago and he was a veteran then. He wasn't very good for us then, so I'm not high on him coming back to the Sox.

[Elktonnick]

Baseball brings me enjoyment. I love to watch the game and discuss the game. That's positive I don't need to wave pom poms to feel positive about something. I always root for the Red Sox' date=' no matter what players have been run out on the field. That doesn't translate into me having to be a fan of the FO or deluding myself into thinking the FO is doing a great job. I root for the guys on the field, not the guys in the suits in the offices. With regard to them the only interest I have is for them to give us a good team. If they don't, they will get my criticism.[/quote']

 

My thoughts exactly

[a700hitter]

You think your diagnosis of his arm problems is better than the Red Sox? Lackey's arm issues haven't even been a factor here' date=' he's just sucked.[/quote']Then why is he getting TJ surgery?

[Emmz]

I thought the issue was always that 'Lackey was paid like an ace even though he's not one'.

 

Buehrle is being paid like an ace by those same standards, and he's not.

[iortiz]

And you called me old for taking a short nap. Jeez' date=' it's 9:30. [/quote']

 

Naps are great to recover strength, I take naps as well sometimes

[jung]

I will consider it a better year if they play hard. That may be a pretty low standard to set but in fact playing hard for an entire season, presuming they have adequate subs for the inevitable injuries, can make a big difference in the outcome. Granted if they will need more BP muscle than they have now. But I would be amazed if they are not now trying to put together some trades that will bring them some added BP muscle. I don't think they have much of a choice but to trade salary to bring in salary.

[iortiz]

1 more year on the Buehrle deal and it's the same, and Lackey won't even last his entire contract.

 

If you're opposed to one, you should be opposed to the other. I said I would never defend Lackey ever again, I did not say I think Buehrle wasn't overpriced.

 

More accurate 82 vs 54, should I oppose as well? I don't think so Emmz.

 

I thought that we agreed that solid, healthy, proved SPs at FA is what usually make these days, didn't we?

 

54/4... For that guy, regardless is not prone to injuries seems fair to me Emmz.

 

are they overpaid?, IMO baseball players, all of them are overpaid, they make tons of money

[User Name]

I will consider it a better year if they play hard. That may be a pretty low standard to set but in fact playing hard for an entire season' date=' presuming they have adequate subs for the inevitable injuries, can make a big difference in the outcome. Granted if they will need more BP muscle than they have now. But I would be amazed if they are not now trying to put together some trades that will bring them some added BP muscle. I don't think they have much of a choice but to trade salary to bring in salary.[/quote']

 

The word out there is that they're going hard after several relievers that would cost them increased salary, as well as at least one starter.

 

That tells me that they are, in fact, willing to go over the cap, as Lucchino has stated before.