2011-2012 Offseason Thread

[User Name]

Anyone who believes the Red Sox have done what is needed to get back to the top next year is living in a dream world. Right now we are worse off than we were at the end of the 2011 season and I would like to see you VA or my fellow Dago buddy or anyone else tell me we are not. Last season was a total embarrassment for the Red Sox and should be for their fans. It's no fun bitching about it but it is equally frustrating to see what happened and the little we've done to rectify it. Killing one of the messengers isn't going to get the job done' date=' and if we don't spend the money to get that closer, that solid starting pitcher and that RH hitting outfielder we need so badly, we can all sit back and watch other teams in October. I don't want that and neither should you or anyone else.[/quote']

 

You actually have an option.

 

You and your entourage of negativity can actually shut up with your baseless conjecture about how the FO operates and Ben's capabilities until the team is constructed. Basing the outcomes of the 2012 season on an incomplete team is like trying to ride a bicycle missing a wheel: An exercise in futility.

 

The fact is, you've all been wrong on a number of things, most notably and importantly the willingness of the Sox to blow the cap.

 

Now all of you (and all of you know who you are) can stop your incessant, annoying,insufferable bitching, or you can keep making this site utterly unreadable until the team is finally constructed, a juncture in which we can actually make an appraisal of the team that is not sprinkled with the delusion of knowledge of the inner workings and running of the Boston Red Sox.

 

/endrant.

[Elktonnick]

So maybe the Red Sox aren't playoff contenders for one season.

 

Oh the horror.

 

If not this year that would make three years in a row. BTW, I share Muggah and Fred's view that ownership is trimming its sails and reducing longterm commitiments. That is a fact. What it means is open to debate. We three aren't the only ones who believe ownership is re assessing its long term position.

[VA Sox Fan]

You actually have an option.

 

You and your entourage of negativity can actually shut up with your baseless conjecture about how the FO operates and Ben's capabilities until the team is constructed. Basing the outcomes of the 2012 season on an incomplete team is like trying to ride a bicycle missing a wheel: An exercise in futility.

 

The fact is, you've all been wrong on a number of things, most notably and importantly the willingness of the Sox to blow the cap.

 

Now all of you (and all of you know who you are) can stop your incessant, annoying,insufferable bitching, or you can keep making this site utterly unreadable until the team is finally constructed, a juncture in which we can actually make an appraisal of the team that is not sprinkled with the delusion of knowledge of the inner workings and running of the Boston Red Sox.

 

/endrant.

 

 

This ^ YES ^

 

AMEN to that post! :thumbsup:

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

If not this year that would make three years in a row.

 

First, oh the horror.

 

Second, I said not playoff contenders. They've been contenders the past two years.

[VA Sox Fan]

If not this year that would make three years in a row. BTW' date=' I share Muggah and Fred's view that ownership is trimming its sails and reducing longterm commitiments. [/b'] That is a fact. What it means is open to debate. We three aren't the only ones who believe ownership is re assessing its long term position.

 

OF COURSE you do. You three are constantly agreeing, patting each other on the back and high fiving each other. No big revelation there.

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

You three are constantly agreeing' date=' patting each other on the back and high fiving each other.[/quote']

 

I guess that's a PG way to put it.

[Elktonnick]

You actually have an option.

 

You and your entourage of negativity can actually shut up with your baseless conjecture about how the FO operates and Ben's capabilities until the team is constructed. Basing the outcomes of the 2012 season on an incomplete team is like trying to ride a bicycle missing a wheel: An exercise in futility.

 

The fact is, you've all been wrong on a number of things, most notably and importantly the willingness of the Sox to blow the cap.

 

Now all of you (and all of you know who you are) can stop your incessant, annoying,insufferable bitching, or you can keep making this site utterly unreadable until the team is finally constructed, a juncture in which we can actually make an appraisal of the team that is not sprinkled with the delusion of knowledge of the inner workings and running of the Boston Red Sox.

 

/endrant.

 

Conjecture is what the Hot Stove is all about. If you don't like what we post or think you can either disagre or ignore. But I at least will continue to post what I think if nothing else because lively discussion about baseball is enjoyable. Who know we ll may learn something in the process. It is better than all posting only consensus opinions.

[a700hitter]

I woke up from my nap just in time for Let's Hate the Posters that We Don't Agree with Night. How very fascist of you all.

[seabeachfred]

So maybe the Red Sox aren't playoff contenders for one season.

 

Oh the horror.

 

Well Jacoby, we didn't make the playoffs this year in the biggest collapse in regular season Major League history, we didn't make it in 2010, and in 2009 we made a cameo appearance and were swept in the ALDS. So if you're fine with missing out again next year it will be four miserable seasons in a row. It may be acceptable to you and to Scarlett O'Hara but it's not acceptable to a lot of us. Quality players cost money and trying the reclamation route won't work any better than it did in 2009.

 

I do not accept the Red Sox not being in the Playoffs. We are a big value team with plenty of money and we should be able to spend what's needed to win, or at least spend it wisely.

[VA Sox Fan]

I guess that's a PG way to put it.

 

Did you mean PC?

[VA Sox Fan]

I woke up from my nap just in time for Let's Hate the Posters that We Don't Agree with Night. How very fascist of you all.

 

Well, I guess napping at your age makes sense;)

 

I think some of us are just tired of the entourage from the other board. So we're not allowed to express our opinions/objections?

[Elktonnick]

OF COURSE you do. You three are constantly agreeing' date=' patting each other on the back and high fiving each other. No big revelation there.[/quote']

 

Actually that's not true. Fred, Muggah, Pumpsie et al have had lively debates over the years. We have been arguing and discussing the Red Sox since 2004 by my count. We've had our battles but I confess I've learned a great deal in the process and had one heck of a good time doing it too.

[a700hitter]

All Hail Red Sox Nation!!! I pledge my life and loyalty to the leaders of Red Sox Nation!!!

 

What interesting discourse that would make.

[User Name]

Conjecture is what the Hot Stove is all about. If you don't like what we post or think you can either disagre or ignore. But I at least will continue to post what I think if nothing else because lively discussion about baseball is enjoyable. Who know we ll may learn something in the process. It is better than all posting only consensus opinions.

 

There is no such thing as a consensus here. Everyone is antsy (me included) to see what they actually do with this team for 2012, however, the constant name calling and know-it-all attitude of some posters is unbearable.

 

Btw, even though i argue with you i find your stances and overall knowledge of the game a lot more palatable than some of the negativity mongers, meaning i don't group you with them.

 

What i mean is, that there can be a differing opinion that doesn't turn the site into a whine-fest. Just sayin'.

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

Well Jacoby' date=' we didn't make the playoffs this year in the biggest collapse in regular season Major League history, we didn't make it in 2010, and in 2009 we made a cameo appearance and were swept in the ALDS.[/quote']

 

The CALAMITY!

 

So if you're fine with missing out again next year it will be four miserable seasons in a row.

 

Of what, not making it to the ALCS? Oh, imagine the thought!

 

I do not accept the Red Sox not being in the Playoffs.

 

That's unfortunate.

[mvp 78]

I woke up from my nap just in time for Let's Hate the Posters that We Don't Agree with Night. How very fascist of you all.

 

Kings are allowed to complain about fascism?

[VA Sox Fan]

Actually that's not true. Fred' date=' Muggah, Pumpsie et al have had lively debates over the years. We have been arguing and discussing the Red Sox since 2004 by my count. We've had our battles but I confess I've learned a great deal in the process and had one heck of a good time doing it too.[/quote']

 

Well I am happy for you all. What happened at Sauxheads again?

[User Name]

Well I am happy for you all. What happened at Sauxheads again?

 

Ooooooh, buuuuuuuuurn.

[Elktonnick]

Well I am happy for you all. What happened at Sauxheads again?

 

Come on over and see for yourself!

[User Name]

Kings are allowed to complain about fascism?

 

You do know you're like, my favorite poster both here and at TalkPats right?

[VA Sox Fan]

All Hail Red Sox Nation!!! I pledge my life and loyalty to the leaders of Red Sox Nation!!!

 

What interesting discourse that would make.

 

Go back to sleep Clint.

[Elktonnick]

There is no such thing as a consensus here. Everyone is antsy (me included) to see what they actually do with this team for 2012, however, the constant name calling and know-it-all attitude of some posters is unbearable.

 

Btw, even though i argue with you i find your stances and overall knowledge of the game a lot more palatable than some of the negativity mongers, meaning i don't group you with them.

 

What i mean is, that there can be a differing opinion that doesn't turn the site into a whine-fest. Just sayin'.

 

People express themselves differently. I guess I have become more tolerant with age.

[seabeachfred]

Maybe we should all just respect the rights of others to express their opinons without getting all huffy about it. I don't expect total agreement and all that would do would make this an echo chamber. Some of us are more vocal than others. There were some posters making critical remarks before our bunch came back on board. At any rate, see you all later. I want to tune into the GOP Debate, or is being an ardent and passionate Republican cause for criticism as well?

[VA Sox Fan]

Come on over and see for yourself!

 

No thank you. Been happy out here since 2006. But do miss a lot of "missing" posters.

[win red sox]

Anyone who believes the Red Sox have done what is needed to get back to the top next year is living in a dream world. Right now we are worse off than we were at the end of the 2011 season and I would like to see you VA or my fellow Dago buddy or anyone else tell me we are not. Last season was a total embarrassment for the Red Sox and should be for their fans. It's no fun bitching about it but it is equally frustrating to see what happened and the little we've done to rectify it. Killing one of the messengers isn't going to get the job done' date=' and if we don't spend the money to get that closer, that solid starting pitcher and that RH hitting outfielder we need so badly, we can all sit back and watch other teams in October. I don't want that and neither should you or anyone else.[/quote']

 

It really just depends on how lucky we get with injuries. If Youkilis stays healthy and Crawford even comes close to his career numbers, and another year of experience for Reddick the offense is dramaticaly improved. If Buchholz can stay healthy as well Dice-k making it back around the all star break the starting pitching is improved, let's face it it wouldn't take much improve from Wakefield, Miller, and Lackey. The bullpen is a gamble every year, But if you get a healthy Jenks and Doubrant it would make a huge difference. This club already has the potential to be better than last year's it's just a matter of staying healthy. And all this BS about wanting to sign Buehrle for 15 million a year to be a number 4 is ridiculous he gets killed by the Yankees and is horrible in Fenway, Saunders would cost a 1/4 of what buehrle was paid and you would get basically the same thing. Don't forge that Gonzales was injured after the all star break so you can easily see his power numbers improving. Stop being so short sighted, the last two years have been unlucky with injuries and luck has major factor in every teams season.

[Elktonnick]

No thank you. Been happy out here since 2006. But do miss a lot of "missing" posters.

 

Several us post on several sites. I post on four sites. I do so because I love the game and devour information about it.

[Bellhorn04]

If not this year that would make three years in a row. BTW' date=' I share Muggah and Fred's view that ownership is trimming its sails and reducing longterm commitiments.[/b'] That is a fact. What it means is open to debate. We three aren't the only ones who believe ownership is re assessing its long term position.

 

nick, they took on two enormous 7-year contracts last year...this offseason they're in the position of being close to the luxury tax threshold without even doing anything...I can't see how that signals what you're suggesting...the Yankees haven't made any big moves yet either, does that mean Hank and Hal are getting ready to sell?

[a700hitter]

Well, I guess napping at your age makes sense;)

 

I think some of us are just tired of the entourage from the other board. So we're not allowed to express our opinions/objections?

People should be disagreeing with their point of view instead of objecting to the posters.

 

It's very hard to find much positive to extoll right now when the biggest positive move is Melancon. He ain't Papelbon or Bard no matter how much we would like to wish it to be, and I am really hoping that the guy will be good. Benny Boy has been honest all along which is the most positive thing that I could say about him thus far. He said that he would understand if papelbon got a deal that he couldn't turn down. He made it clear that Paps wasn't on the team's radar. He said that they wouldn't make any big moves at the Winter Meetings and they didn't. He said that they would make moves after the meetings that would be "under the radar" and that too was accurate. Other than that, he has done little positive. The Ortiz arbitration offer was a ridiculous blunder. We are waiting for the positive. He has an entire bullpen to rebuild. If he is able to build a good bullpen, they will have a very good team. He hasn't yet. When he does, he will get his props.

[VA Sox Fan]

Several us post on several sites. I post on four sites. I do so because I love the game and devour information about it.

 

That's good for you. I don't. I do love the game very much but don't need to get my info that way. If it works for you, good. I prefer watching as many of the 162 games I can to see what actually happens. Never have been into predictions, speculations and second guessing. Let's see what happens in 2012. One season at a time.

[Muggah]

You actually have an option.

 

You and your entourage of negativity can actually shut up with your baseless conjecture about how the FO operates and Ben's capabilities until the team is constructed. Basing the outcomes of the 2012 season on an incomplete team is like trying to ride a bicycle missing a wheel: An exercise in futility.

 

The fact is, you've all been wrong on a number of things, most notably and importantly the willingness of the Sox to blow the cap.

 

Now all of you (and all of you know who you are) can stop your incessant, annoying,insufferable bitching, or you can keep making this site utterly unreadable until the team is finally constructed, a juncture in which we can actually make an appraisal of the team that is not sprinkled with the delusion of knowledge of the inner workings and running of the Boston Red Sox.

 

/endrant.

 

Or, we could just choose to ignore your insufferable whining and continue to point out the flaws we see in their methodology. There's room for both, my friend. If you don't think so, there's always the ignore button.