2011 Yankee Gamethread

[BornToRun]

C.C looks like the front runner for the Cy Young award though.Beckett can compete if he finishes strong.

 

You ever hear of a dude named Justin Verlander? Or some other guy, Weaver or something like that?

[d-money]

True,true, forgot those guys lol.I hope Beckett finishes strong here.He doesnt have quite the wins though.

[BornToRun]

Plus, I'm pretty sure there's a weight restriction for the Cy Young. You have to be less than a Ford F-250.

[Cocos Disciples]

Jered Weaver is clearly the front-runner at this point, IMO. He's on pace for 21 wins and has a 1.81 ERA, so he'll probably get it too.

[yankees228]

Going into tonight CC had the highest WAR for any starting pitcher in baseball this year. The case for him winning the AL CY can certainly be made.

 

Anyway, CC and Shields split their two head to head match-ups, which is exactly what you'd expect. The two games they lost this series were certainly disappointing, but they needed to split to maintain their WC lead and they did just that. The offense just isn't producing right now, but the return of A-Rod and Tex's inevitable hot streak should help. I don't love this team, but I have to give them their due. Even with all the crap they've thrown out there on a nightly basis, they've been far and away better than any team in the AL besides Boston.

[yankees228]

I don't think there's any debate as to the fact that the majority of his value comes from his defense. With average defense he'd be a 2.4 WAR player. I'm not penalizing him for playing multiple positions' date=' I just think his UZR is far to generous in caparison to his positional adjustment in left field.[/quote']

 

Well now you changed your wording. It went from Gardner's value being almost entirely coming from his defense (which isn't true), to the majority of Gardner's value coming from his defense (which is true). And just to preempt a possible rebuttal ... that isn't a semantical issue, those are two significantly different statements.

 

And you are penalizing him for something very similar to that. You're essentially saying that UZR is too generous towards him because his skills are much better than his positional peers.

[RedSoxfanforlife305]

Yankees should have won the series 3-1. They played in a stupid circus and Granderson can't make the easy flyball catch. I'm talking about the 2nd game btw. Boone Logan error kind of hurt too but 2 runs don't get scored had Granderson made that catch.

[yankees228]

Yankees should have won the series 3-1. They played in a stupid circus and Granderson can't make the easy flyball catch. I'm talking about the 2nd game btw. Boone Logan error kind of hurt too but 2 runs don't get scored had Granderson made that catch.

 

True, but at the same time, the Rays handed them game one of the series.

[RedSoxfanforlife305]

I can't put my finger on it, what happened that game?

[yankees228]

I can't put my finger on it' date=' what happened that game?[/quote']

 

The Rays just had a million opportunities to blow the game open and didn't ... and then they handed the game to the Yankees by walking the ballpark.

[Divinity]

Going into tonight CC had the highest WAR for any starting pitcher in baseball this year. The case for him winning the AL CY can certainly be made.

 

 

Its a 3 man race between him, Weaver and Verlander.

[jacksonianmarch]

I just dont get how you play a series with TB and you throw out a lineup like that last night. How do you not at least DH your best offensive player in a game against the team right behind you in the Wild Card race? I just dont get it. Then, after resting him for 6 innings, you go ahead and throw him out there when we were down. Did Girardi not think we'd be down with the s*** lineup thrown out there? He's so f***ing clueless.

[AtWork]

Well now you changed your wording. It went from Gardner's value being almost entirely coming from his defense (which isn't true), to the majority of Gardner's value coming from his defense (which is true). And just to preempt a possible rebuttal ... that isn't a semantical issue, those are two significantly different statements.

 

And you are penalizing him for something very similar to that. You're essentially saying that UZR is too generous towards him because his skills are much better than his positional peers.

 

Nearly 2/3rds of his WAR value the last couple of years has come from his defense. The wording you want to use to describe that is a matter of semantics. As for his UZR rating, that not what I said. I said I don't think the positional adjustment that WAR uses correctly adjusts for his UZR. And many of the other similar defensive metrics out there don't rate Gardner as high as UZR, so perhaps it's UZR that's actually the issue.

[AtWork]

Yankees should have won the series 3-1. They played in a stupid circus and Granderson can't make the easy flyball catch. I'm talking about the 2nd game btw. Boone Logan error kind of hurt too but 2 runs don't get scored had Granderson made that catch.

 

The Rays also handed them the third game, I believe they walked in the winning run. And in the last series they played, Shields handed the Yankees a game on an error trying to pick someone off of third. That stuff evens out.

[jacksonianmarch]

He's a .285-ish hitter right now with an OBP over .360 and he leads the league in steals and I believe he also leads in P/PA. He's worth his tiny weight in gold

[yankees228]

Nearly 2/3rds of his WAR value the last couple of years has come from his defense. The wording you want to use to describe that is a matter of semantics. As for his UZR rating' date=' that not what I said. I said I don't think the positional adjustment that WAR uses correctly adjusts for his UZR. And many of the other similar defensive metrics out there don't rate Gardner as high as UZR, so perhaps it's UZR that's actually the issue.[/quote']

 

'Almost entirely' means close to 100%. That's not the case. It dismisses his offensive contributions, which are quite valuable.

 

As for other defensive metrics, as the article points out, DRS has him third among all players (regardless of position) and Total Zone has him fourth (both from 2010 on).

[AtWork]

'Almost entirely' means close to 100%. That's not the case. It dismisses his offensive contributions, which are quite valuable.

 

As for other defensive metrics, as the article points out, DRS has him third among all players (regardless of position) and Total Zone has him fourth (both from 2010 on).

 

He's a great fielder, I'm not saying he isn't. But having him rated third or fourth among fielders is a fary cry from having him rated as two or three times more valuable than any other defensive player the last two years. And considering defense makes up nearly 2/3rds of his value if you go by any of the other defensive metrics mentioned his value would be significantly less.

[yankees228]

He's a great fielder' date=' I'm not saying he isn't. But having him rated third or fourth among fielders is a fary cry from having him rated as two or three times more valuable than any other defensive player the last two years. And considering defense makes up nearly 2/3rds of his value if you go by any of the other defensive metrics mentioned his value would be significantly less.[/quote']

 

You seem to have made this into a discussion solely about WAR and UZR ... which I never intended for, and the article that started this conversation never mentioned WAR either. Gardner's contributions are brushed aside quite often, especially on this site. My only point, which I've never deviated from, is that Gardner is excellent defensively, quite good at getting on base, and excellent on the bases. These facts hold true by any measure.

[AtWork]

You seem to have made this into a discussion solely about WAR and UZR ... which I never intended for' date=' and the article that started this conversation never mentioned WAR either. Gardner's contributions are brushed aside quite often, especially on this site. My only point, which I've never deviated from, is that Gardner is excellent defensively, quite good at getting on base, and excellent on the bases. These facts hold true by any measure.[/quote']

 

If you were looking for a Gardner love fest, I don't think I need to explain to you that a Red Sox forum is not the place to get one. For as great as Gardner is, he still has a number of flaws (no power, the stolen base's influence on the outcome of games is highly overrated) and Red Sox fans are going to point that out. You must have known that when you posted a story about how great Gardner is on a Red Sox forum.

 

At the same time, I have no problem giving him credit where credit is due. I would say he is one of the best defensive players in baseball, he is one of the best in baseball at working the count and getting on base, he is one of the best in baseball at stealing bases and he has a very accurate throwing arm. But I think the discussion about him being the most valuable player on the Yankees the last couple of years is a bit silly.

[yankees228]

If you were looking for a Gardner love fest, I don't think I need to explain to you that a Red Sox forum is not the place to get one. For as great as Gardner is, he still has a number of flaws (no power, the stolen base's influence on the outcome of games is highly overrated) and Red Sox fans are going to point that out. You must have known that when you posted a story about how great Gardner is on a Red Sox forum.

 

At the same time, I have no problem giving him credit where credit is due. I would say he is one of the best defensive players in baseball, he is one of the best in baseball at working the count and getting on base, he is one of the best in baseball at stealing bases and he has a very accurate throwing arm. But I think the discussion about him being the most valuable player on the Yankees the last couple of years is a bit silly.

 

I'm not looking for Red Sox fans to gush over Brett Gardner ... but that doesn't mean objective discussion can't be had about his value and ability. When the topic has come up before, the general counter argument has been 'who cares about advanced stats, watch him play, etc etc'. But yeah, your analysis of him is fair ... he does all those things well, but despite what WAR says, he's not the most valuable member of the team.

[AtWork]

I'm not looking for Red Sox fans to gush over Brett Gardner ... but that doesn't mean objective discussion can't be had about his value and ability. When the topic has come up before' date=' the general counter argument has been 'who cares about advanced stats, watch him play, etc etc'. But yeah, your analysis of him is fair ... he does all those things well, but despite what WAR says, he's not the most valuable member of the team.[/quote']

 

Are you really surprised Gardner's accomplishments have been swept under the rug considering what kind of a forum this is? Asking us to compliment a Yankee is like asking us to swear in church.

 

As for the advanced stats, more often than not I trust them but there are times when common sense dictates otherwise. For example, I wouldn't say that Adrian Gonzalez is the third most valuable player on the Red Sox even though I can understand why WAR is coming to that conclusion.

[boston22407]

Go A's!

[yankees228]

Are you really surprised Gardner's accomplishments have been swept under the rug considering what kind of a forum this is? Asking us to compliment a Yankee is like asking us to swear in church.

 

Not surprising, just stupid. Who cares if the guy plays on a divisional rival? Acknowledging his accomplishments =/= rooting for him. If we're going to talk objectively about baseball, there's no reason to not be fair in our assessments of all players.

 

But then again, this is coming from someone who doesn't hate, or even dislike any sports teams, including the Red Sox. I root against them because if they don't do well, it benefits the Yankees, but other than that I have no problem with them. In fact, I really like a bunch of their players.

[AtWork]

BTW, Cahill is 0-3 against the Yankees with a 9.72 ERA.

[AtWork]

I just dont get how you play a series with TB and you throw out a lineup like that last night. How do you not at least DH your best offensive player in a game against the team right behind you in the Wild Card race? I just dont get it. Then' date=' after resting him for 6 innings, you go ahead and throw him out there when we were down. Did Girardi not think we'd be down with the s*** lineup thrown out there? He's so f***ing clueless.[/quote']

 

Granderson's a .079/.103/.158 hitter against Shields in 38 AB. This is a great example of why Girardi's the manager and a member of a baseball forum is not.

[jacksonianmarch]

Hughes sucked today.

[RedSoxfanforlife305]

BTW' date=' Cahill is 0-3 against the Yankees with a 9.72 ERA.[/quote']

 

I see why now.

[AtWork]

I see why now.

 

This start confirms it, he suffers from Chris Ray syndrome.

[AtWork]

Hughes has a 6.73 ERA and a 1.76 WHIP since coming off the DL. It doesn't appear that much has changed.

[RedSoxfanforlife305]

This start confirms it' date=' he suffers from Chris Ray syndrome.[/quote']

 

He got absolutely destroyed tonight. He needs to like pretend sick everytime he faces the Yankees to save himself from embarassment lmao.