Manny Ramirez Trade Deadline Thread (renamed)

[Anuj09]

is bay signed through next year?

[msubulldogs21]

is bay signed through next year?

 

Yes. I think he's making in the $7 M range.

[Gom]

Lin is nasty. I'd heard of him, but not until I got to see him go deep at Yankee Stadium during the Futures Game did I realize just how legitimate of a prospect he was. Did some research after that and he looks like a real promising kid.

You went to the Future's game? Gay.

[example1]

So, a lot of people here are very close to the ledge and are drawing lines in the sand in terms of this deal. Jason Bay is an excellent pickup for Manny if it is true, given the current situation.

 

Here's the deal folks: (contest any of the following premises if you want)

 

1) We all love Manny's antics and his bat, over his career with the Sox in particular. However, if a deal does not happen then Manny Ramirez will be with the Sox through this season only. After that he will be gone.

 

2) Manny Ramirez makes 20,000,000 a year but plays like someone who deserves 13-14m.

 

3) Manny has asked for trades explicitly numerous times

 

4) Manny has called out the FO, accusing them of disrespecting him despite being a top-5 paid player in baseball

 

5) Despite attempts to claim otherwise, Manny did NOT single handedly win the World Series for the Red Sox. Without Dave Roberts the Sox lose. Period. (and Roberts didn't do it single handedly either, same could be said of Schilling, Mueller, Foulke, etc.,)

 

6) The Red Sox continually tried to meet Manny's request, but have been largely unable to do so for anything approaching equal value (equal value = progressively: 5 yrs of Manny, 4 yrs of Manny, 3 yrs, etc.,).

 

7) Manny's current value is NOTHING OTHER THAN August, September and part of October of 2008 Manny. His current value is not his HOF numbers, it is not his 2004 performance or his 1.097 OPS of 2002. His current value is his .932 OPS and his mediocre defensive play. It is mitigated by his off-field absurdities.

 

8) Jason Bay is not an "average" outfielder--as some have claimed here. He has a career .892 OPS. Let's put that in some context: that places him 72nd ALL TIME, just below Magglio Ordonez and just above Nomar. It is also above Willie McCovey, Willie Stargel, Eddie Matthews, Harmon Killebrew, Derrek Lee, Pat Burrell, Derek Jeter, Alfonso Soriano, Carlos Lee, Fred Lynn, Aramis Ramirez, Paul Konerko, Kirby Puckett, Andruw Jones or Miguel Tejada... to name a few. He has the 4th best SLG in Pirates history.

 

9) As far as I know, all of the above was done with no noticable steroid or HGH usage (no power surges, no growth, etc.,).

 

10) We would also have Bay for 2009, allowing us to go after a guy like Matt Holliday if that makes anyone feel better.

 

11) Bay costs 7.5m in 2009, was the 2004 ROY, has driven in 100+ runs twice (on a s***** team).

 

12) Bay is not represented by Scott Boras, and may sign for a reasonable deal if he is worth keeping.

=========

 

I could go on and on about why the Sox making a deal to bring back Bay for a year-plus is more than reasonable given the time constraints and the limits of players available.

 

Again, please lay out other plausible scenarios for the remainder of this season and the post-Manny era and why they are better than getting Bay.

 

Would people be okay here if Manny hadn't played for most of the rest of the season by putting himself on the DL in an effort to pout about not having his TWENTY MILLION dollar option picked up?

 

 

There is no doubt that Jason Bay is not Manny Ramirez overall. Manny is one of the best hitters of all time. However, he is not CURRENTLY one of the best hitters of all time and his time with the Sox is precarious and very short.

 

Please offer something better before slamming someone as good as Jason Bay. Anyone else ask themselves why other teams weren't willing to part with other good talent to get Manny? (hint: it's bcause he's not as good as he used to be).

 

Finally, a particular Yankees fan made the point that it was disgraceful that Sox fans were booing Manny. f*** that. Yankees fans were booing Alex Rodriguez last year when he didn't do what fans wanted. Get over yourself. It is fair for fans of ANY TEAM to want their players to hustle and to shut up and play.

 

Again, Manny Ramirez makes $40,000 PER AB (assuming he gets 500 plus ABs per year) (we all acknowledge that Manny is paid to hit, right? He would be the DH if we had an open spot, right?).

 

All those who make ONE lazy-Manny-run to 1st in a year (40,000), raise your keyboards!!

 

All those who make TWO lazy-Manny-runs to 1st in a year (80,000), raise your keyboards!!

 

Anyone here make the equivalent of THREE lazy-Manny-runs to 1st in a year (120,000)? FOUR (160,000)? He did that in the last 3 days.

 

Do I begrudge him trotting down the line sometimes? No. I do begrudge him for acting as if this isn't part of it for fans who hear him saying he doesn't want to play for the Sox, or in Boston, or who say that someone who is willing to pay him that much to NOT be Albert Pujols or A-Rod is disrespecting him.

 

He says the Sox are disrespecting him for not picking up his 40m option for the next two years. DOES ANYONE ACTUALLY BELIEVE THAT HE IS WORTH 20m A YEAR?

 

Anyone who would pay him 20m with his current production should lose their GM job. Furthermore, anyone who would not trade those as-of-yet undetermined draft picks for a year and a half of Jason Bay when you have a gaping LF hole is also making me wonder about their sanity (ps... we can get draft picks if we let Bay go after 2009, so we can get other guys JACOBY ELLSBURY hasn't heard of <_>

 

Bay is not the only answer to the question of how to replace Manny so this team wins. That is the goal, isn't it?

 

Would anyone complain if the Sox made a push and replaced Wakefield with, say, Yu Darvish or spent their money in some other very productive way in the future? Jesus, let's get creative here with the 13m difference between them. Lord knows Theo would LOVE to have that possibility.

[BoSox34]

Who cares if he doesn't run out a few ground balls and has a few Manny moments per year. He is one of the most productive hitters in Red Sox history and the most entertaining player I have ever watched. I'm just pissed at the media for trying to make Manny out to look like a lazy player who doesn't care. This guy has put up HUUUGE numbers and has been a major part of two world titles. He has his bad moments, but the media doesn't appreciate him nearly enough. If the Red Sox really move Manny, I hope they sign Barry Bonds. Piss off this stupid out of touch media that has been helping to fuel a fire which is running Manny out of town.

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

This is what makes me confident that the FO knows the team and the trading possibilities better than you do.

 

Lin was the MVP of the futures game.

 

Who would you have had the Sox pick up for LF starting next year?

 

What would your plan have been when Hermeda went down with an injury in September and this team doesn't make it out of the first round? Just wondering?

 

Dont know what your problem is, but yeah, you're absolutely right. I don't know s*** about the Boston Red Sox, because I don't pay attention to what goes on in Pawtucket, Portland, etc.. OMG! The Futures Game! The f***ing Futures Game! I don't care about that or anything else that goes on during the all-star break! Who would I have the Sox pick up for LF next year? If I couldn't find any sufficient outside possibilities, I'd just pick up Manny's option. That's not difficult, seeing as Boston controls his future completely as long as they have him. Never thought of that, huh? And WTF do you mean WHEN Hermida goes down with injury? How the hell do you know whether someone will get injured or not? Can you see into the future? Are you a f***ing medium? You can't predict the future so don't even use that s*** on me. I think if anyone here was qualified to running the Boston Red Sox they'd have some kind of position with the team already. But no, we're just a bunch of geeks f***ing around on a message board.

 

 

f***, I've had an account here not even 12 hours and someone's already managed to make me crack. Unbelievable.

[BigPapiEnFuego]

I'm starting to like this Jacoby Ellsbury guy even more. Not only can he steal bases and s***, but he's a pretty cool forum poster.

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

I'm starting to like this Jacoby Ellsbury guy even more. Not only can he steal bases and s***' date=' but he's a pretty cool forum poster.[/quote']

 

I aim to please.

 

 

Ur not too bad either.

[Gom]

It's f***ing idiotic of fans who booed Alex. Trust me, the real fans know Alex and what he means. He busts his ass every day. It's like those idiot Yankee fans who feel that rooting for Alex is going against Derek Jeter.

 

Give me Arod any day of the week over Jeter. I love Jeter, but he's no Arod. Same way that you guys may love Tek, but he's no Manny.

[example1]

Who cares if he doesn't run out a few ground balls and has a few Manny moments per year. He is one of the most productive hitters in Red Sox history and the most entertaining player I have ever watched. I'm just pissed at the media for trying to make Manny out to look like a lazy player who doesn't care. This guy has put up HUUUGE numbers and has been a major part of two world titles. He has his bad moments' date=' but [b']the media doesn't appreciate him nearly enough.[/b] If the Red Sox really move Manny, I hope they sign Barry Bonds. Piss off this stupid out of touch media that has been helping to fuel a fire which is running Manny out of town.

 

1. "Has" put up huge numbers. Last year were Gom and Jacksonianmarch reveling in their 26 World Series Championships while the Sox were dancing in Coors? Perhaps you don't understand that baseball is a business. It is all about what have you done for me lately, and the owners (who ultimately fork out the 20m per year for a guy like Manny) have every right to demand nothing but the best. Know how you feel when you order a Filet Mignon and it comes to the table charred and dry? Multiply that by 500,000 and you'll see where John Henry is coming from here in the 8th year of Manny's career.

 

2. The media doesn't appreciate him enough? The only person not appreciating is Manny. How much money would it take for you to hustle when you're trying to PROVE that you're worth 25m a year? Is he worth 25m (100/4) because he plays hard every day, or because his knees are too sore to run down the line? He can't have it both ways.

 

3. Want to see what a player who cares looks like? Look at Varitek after he K's recently, or Ortiz.

 

I'm not a Manny hater. I'm really not. He's always been one of my favorites. I just think it is important that people look at the various players individually. Jason Bay is not 'average', he has been very, very good and his age and current level of production seem to indicate that he will continue for awhile at a considerably lower cost.

 

Why don't you criticize Manny for saying he'll get 25m a year as a FA instead of taking less to stay with the Sox? If everyone acknowledges that he's a mid-900 OPS guy, that his best season from here on out will likely be 30 HR/120 RBI, then why should the Sox SETTLE for draft picks if they can get a Jason Bay?

 

This discussion should really be about Jason Bay, not Manny Ramirez. Manny leaving was inevitable, and Bay is likely better than anyone the Sox would have acquired as a FA in the offseason.

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

It's f***ing idiotic of fans who booed Alex. Trust me, the real fans know Alex and what he means. He busts his ass every day. It's like those idiot Yankee fans who feel that rooting for Alex is going against Derek Jeter.

 

Give me Arod any day of the week over Jeter. I love Jeter, but he's no Arod. Same way that you guys may love Tek, but he's no Manny.

 

It has bugged me too how the NY fans swarm A-Rod the minute he makes even the most negligable mistake, and how the NY tabloids blow up his personal life for all the public to see. Really disgusting stuff.

[Gom]

I second the motion on this Ellsbury guy. I like him too. Sounds a lot like me.

 

Hey Jacoby.

 

Bite me you loser. There. That's the welcome I wanted to give you.

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

I second the motion on this Ellsbury guy. I like him too. Sounds a lot like me.

 

Hey Jacoby.

 

Bite me you loser. There. That's the welcome I wanted to give you.

 

I feel accepted now. :thumbsup:

[BoSox34]

1. "Has" put up huge numbers. Last year were Gom and Jacksonianmarch reveling in their 26 World Series Championships while the Sox were dancing in Coors? Perhaps you don't understand that baseball is a business. It is all about what have you done for me lately, and the owners (who ultimately fork out the 20m per year for a guy like Manny) have every right to demand nothing but the best. Know how you feel when you order a Filet Mignon and it comes to the table charred and dry? Multiply that by 500,000 and you'll see where John Henry is coming from here in the 8th year of Manny's career.

 

2. The media doesn't appreciate him enough? The only person not appreciating is Manny. How much money would it take for you to hustle when you're trying to PROVE that you're worth 25m a year? Is he worth 25m (100/4) because he plays hard every day, or because his knees are too sore to run down the line? He can't have it both ways.

 

3. Want to see what a player who cares looks like? Look at Varitek after he K's recently, or Ortiz.

 

I'm not a Manny hater. I'm really not. He's always been one of my favorites. I just think it is important that people look at the various players individually. Jason Bay is not 'average', he has been very, very good and his age and current level of production seem to indicate that he will continue for awhile at a considerably lower cost.

 

Why don't you criticize Manny for saying he'll get 25m a year as a FA instead of taking less to stay with the Sox? If everyone acknowledges that he's a mid-900 OPS guy, that his best season from here on out will likely be 30 HR/120 RBI, then why should the Sox SETTLE for draft picks if they can get a Jason Bay?

 

This discussion should really be about Jason Bay, not Manny Ramirez. Manny leaving was inevitable, and Bay is likely better than anyone the Sox would have acquired as a FA in the offseason.

 

I'd rather seeing Manny hitting home runs, driving in runs, and being a player who opponents work their gameplan around than seeing Varitek "care" when he strikes out...which is a lot. Varitek is more of a problem than Manny.

[Gom]

Last year were Gom and Jacksonianmarch reveling in their 26 World Series Championships while the Sox were dancing in Coors?

Truthfully, I was s***ing a brick that Arod was opting out.

[Cityofchampions33]

Seems like what else the Sox would receive are iffy, some reports indicate Grabow going to Florida. If this means we get Stanton I am ALL for it.

 

Manny, prospect (hopefully not of significance)

 

for

 

Bay, Bay's 2010 replacement

 

Yes please.

[Cityofchampions33]

now i'm just flat out confused

 

The Red Sox, Marlins and Pirates continue to talk seriously about a three-way trade involving Manny Ramirez, but a deal still is not assured of being completed, major-league sources say.

 

"If anyone thinks this is a slam dunk, that's not the case," says one source with knowledge of the discussions.

 

The teams still have yet to agree on the players in the deal, though the basic framework for the blockbuster is in place.

 

The Marlins would trade outfielder Jeremy Hermida and a prospect for Ramirez, and the Red Sox then would flip Hermida and prospects to the Pirates for left fielder Jason Bay and possibly left-handed reliever John Grabow.

 

Two prominent Marlins prospects who have been mentioned — Class AA right-hander Ryan Tucker and Class A outfielder Michael Stanton — will not be traded, multiple sources say.

 

For Bay, who turns 30 on Sept. 20, the Pirates presumably would need to exceed the offer they received from the Braves last week — Class AAA outfielder Brandon Jones, Class AAA shortstop Brent Lillibridge and two pitchers in the low minors.

 

The Pirates, one source says, want an "appropriate return for an All-Star caliber left fielder" — and one who is affordable at $5.75 million this season and $7.5 million in 2009.

 

link:http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/8398172/Teams-should-still-consider-trading-for-Dunn

[example1]

Dont know what your problem is' date=' but yeah, you're absolutely right. [/quote']

 

My problem is that you're dominating the board with innane discussion about the greatness of Mannys past instead of the actual present without understanding how the system works. You need a counter balance so this board stays intelligent.

 

 

I don't know s*** about the Boston Red Sox, because I don't pay attention to what goes on in Pawtucket, Portland, etc..

 

Without knowing how the system works you can't understand why decisions are made. For instance, the Red Sox let go of Pedro Martinez and got a draft pick. Who did they sign with that draft pick?

 

The Sox let go of Orlando Cabrera (but he did SO MUCH FOR THIS TEAM!!! YAY!!) and who did they get (hint... you call yourself by his name).

 

If the Sox FO didn't care about any of this, if they didn't care about the draft or the minor leagues then a lot of these decisions would not have made sense. By understanding how the rules work and how the FO attempts to construct its team to get THE MOST FOR THEIR MONEY then one is bound to judge everything based on very superficial ideas...

 

Who would I have the Sox pick up for LF next year? If I couldn't find any sufficient outside possibilities, I'd just pick up Manny's option.

 

And I would counter that for the money (20m), and with some smart draft picks, the Sox could pay for the following signed/developed talent (approx 2008 salary):

 

Jacoby Ellsbury: 400,000

Dustin Pedroia: 450,000

Jonathan Papelbon: 800,000

Kevin Youkilis: 3 million

Josh Beckett: 9.5 million

 

and still have enough to pay, say, David Wright (Mets) (5m).

 

Get the point? You would "just pick up Manny's option" which is one reason that you will never be a GM. NOBODY will pay Manny 20m, let alone the 25 he says he will get. Look at his numbers the past 2 years, look at his age. I'm not trying to be a downer, but seriously, get real. He's an aging star whose numbers have dropped over the past few years. He's still pretty good but he's not going to get better--given the talent listed above, I think it is pretty clear to see why the Sox FO thinks they can spend their money better than by signing Manny at 20m per.

 

 

That's not difficult, seeing as Boston controls his future completely as long as they have him.

 

How would you know? What do you know about controlling the future? Do you know what "options" are, or that Manny has a no-trade clause?

 

Never thought of that, huh? And WTF do you mean WHEN Hermida goes down with injury? How the hell do you know whether someone will get injured or not? Can you see into the future? Are you a f***ing medium? You can't predict the future so don't even use that s*** on me.

 

I predict injuries based on history of injuries. Hermida has a history of injuries and hasn't played more than 120 games in a season. Jason Bay (if he plays 15 more games this year) will have played in 120 games in 5 consecutive seasons--his ONLY 5 seasons in baseball.

 

I think if anyone here was qualified to running the Boston Red Sox they'd have some kind of position with the team already. But no, we're just a bunch of geeks f***ing around on a message board.

 

There's a heirarchy though:

 

1. Actual GMs

2. Wannabe GMs

3. Fans who understand how the business side of the game works but who know the actual GMs know it better.

4. Fans who don't understand how the business side of the game works, but who know it is an important--though complicated--system that explains many otherwise confusing moves.

5. Fans who don't understand how the business side of the game works, but who are too ignorant to know that it is important.

6. Fans who don't understand how the business side of the game works, who are too ignorant to know that it is important, and who MOCK those who DO care about how the business side of the game works.

 

7. Fans who don't understand business side, too ignorant to know it is important, mocking those who take the time to learn it, while also thinking they are smarter than the Actual GM's at the top of the heirarchy. (that's you, apparently)

 

f***, I've had an account here not even 12 hours and someone's already managed to make me crack. Unbelievable.

 

I like your enthusiasm (honestly, I do), but you really have to step up the depth of your analysis if you want to understand how the game works. Or, you need to step up your humility. I've learned a lot from people like ORS, Jacksonian and JHB, but only because I've stayed open to their analysis. Hopefully you will take some time to read about how the system works before thinking your brief inclinations reflect some abstract mastery of its intricacies.

 

I'm not saying that I'm "right", but usually if you think you know way better than the multi-million GM who has helped produce 2 WS rings, you should check (and then re-check) your logic before being so bold as to say so out loud. If you're starting with "Who cares about the minor leagues" I'd say re-checking your work is still pretty far away. Right now is the time for you to learn how teams work.

[example1]

I'd rather seeing Manny hitting home runs' date=' driving in runs, and being a player who opponents work their gameplan around than seeing Varitek "care" when he strikes out...which is a lot. Varitek is more of a problem than Manny.[/quote']

 

Oh, I'm sorry, I didn't know it was a Varitek OR Manny kind of thing. I just thought that people should care how they perform, or, at the very least, IF they perform.

 

Do you think Manny is worth 20m dollars? Real dollars, not monopoly dollars?

[BoSox34]

Oh, I'm sorry, I didn't know it was a Varitek OR Manny kind of thing. I just thought that people should care how they perform, or, at the very least, IF they perform.

 

Do you think Manny is worth 20m dollars? Real dollars, not monopoly dollars?

 

No I don't think a player who bats 1000 and hits 400 home runs a year deserves that much money. There are so many more important jobs which deserve more income, especially in today's day in age. I think players' contracts are so ridiculous that it's not even worth discussing who's worth what because in actuality, nobody in sports is worth their salary in my opinion. They play a game for a living and are pampered like royalty.

[yankees228]

No I don't think a player who bats 1000 and hits 400 home runs a year deserves that much money. There are so many more important jobs which deserve more income' date=' especially in today's day in age. I think players' contracts are so ridiculous that it's not even worth discussing who's worth what because in actuality, nobody in sports is worth their salary in my opinion. They play a game for a living and are pampered like royalty.[/quote']

 

Obviously...but the argument has to be based on market value.

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

My problem is that you're dominating the board with innane discussion about the greatness of Mannys past instead of the actual present without understanding how the system works. You need a counter balance so this board stays intelligent.

 

Well the ignore feature exists for this very reason I suppose.

 

 

 

 

Without knowing how the system works you can't understand why decisions are made. For instance, the Red Sox let go of Pedro Martinez and got a draft pick. Who did they sign with that draft pick?

 

The Sox let go of Orlando Cabrera (but he did SO MUCH FOR THIS TEAM!!! YAY!!) and who did they get (hint... you call yourself by his name).

 

Ah, OK, now I'm confused. You're stating how letting Martinez/Cabrera go bagged us rock-solid prospects that are in the majors right now. So wouldn't that just add a reason to keep Manny now, let him walk in free agency, and take our two draft picks?

 

If the Sox FO didn't care about any of this, if they didn't care about the draft or the minor leagues then a lot of these decisions would not have made sense. By understanding how the rules work and how the FO attempts to construct its team to get THE MOST FOR THEIR MONEY then one is bound to judge everything based on very superficial ideas...

 

Who ever said I don't care about the minor leagues? I don't care about the futures game, just like I don't care about anything that goes on during the all-star break. I don't follow the minor leagues as closely as I do the Sox for the simple reason that its difficult to get coverage and watch those teams and their players in action. If you can't see the games, what's the point? The Pawtucket Sox aren't exactly spewing coverage on every TV station.

 

 

 

And I would counter that for the money (20m), and with some smart draft picks, the Sox could pay for the following signed/developed talent (approx 2008 salary):

 

Jacoby Ellsbury: 400,000

Dustin Pedroia: 450,000

Jonathan Papelbon: 800,000

Kevin Youkilis: 3 million

Josh Beckett: 9.5 million

 

and still have enough to pay, say, David Wright (Mets) (5m).

 

Fair enough, this round is yours. I already know who David Wright plays for, by the way.

 

Get the point? You would "just pick up Manny's option" which is one reason that you will never be a GM. NOBODY will pay Manny 20m, let alone the 25 he says he will get. Look at his numbers the past 2 years, look at his age. I'm not trying to be a downer, but seriously, get real. He's an aging star whose numbers have dropped over the past few years. He's still pretty good but he's not going to get better--given the talent listed above, I think it is pretty clear to see why the Sox FO thinks they can spend their money better than by signing Manny at 20m per.

 

Manny's not going to get better but he still provides a damn good bat when his head's screwed on tightly. Call me crazy, but losing Manny and putting Coco Crisp or Brandon Moss in his place in left, and subsequently moving Youk or Lowell up to the 4 hole would hurt this team's lineup in a big way. What I'm saying is, obviously exhaust all options trying to bring a quality outfield bat in to replace Manny first, and if every single option falls through, just fall back to Manny for one more year. And trust me, I don't want that to happen, but I think we more or less would have too to ensure that Ortiz doesn't have as many walks as at-bats, and for the better of the team on the field. I don't have a business degree, I can't pretend that I do, that's what I'm going to college for. Right now I just see a gaping hole in left field and in the batting order if Manny departs. Letting him leave through trade is absolute idiocy because Jason Bay simply doesn't measure up and John Grabow, let's face it, sucks.

 

 

 

 

How would you know? What do you know about controlling the future? Do you know what "options" are, or that Manny has a no-trade clause?

 

Yes and yes. What I meant was, if we want to keep Manny, we can definitely do so. I wasn't referring to our ability to shop him.

 

 

 

I predict injuries based on history of injuries. Hermida has a history of injuries and hasn't played more than 120 games in a season. Jason Bay (if he plays 15 more games this year) will have played in 120 games in 5 consecutive seasons--his ONLY 5 seasons in baseball.

 

How long has Jeremy Hermida been around? 2+ years I think. Not much of a sample size.

 

 

 

There's a heirarchy though:

 

1. Actual GMs

2. Wannabe GMs

3. Fans who understand how the business side of the game works but who know the actual GMs know it better.

4. Fans who don't understand how the business side of the game works, but who know it is an important--though complicated--system that explains many otherwise confusing moves.

5. Fans who don't understand how the business side of the game works, but who are too ignorant to know that it is important.

6. Fans who don't understand how the business side of the game works, who are too ignorant to know that it is important, and who MOCK those who DO care about how the business side of the game works.

 

7. Fans who don't understand business side, too ignorant to know it is important, mocking those who take the time to learn it, while also thinking they are smarter than the Actual GM's at the top of the heirarchy. (that's you, apparently)

 

clearly

 

 

 

I like your enthusiasm (honestly, I do), but you really have to step up the depth of your analysis if you want to understand how the game works. Or, you need to step up your humility. I've learned a lot from people like ORS, Jacksonian and JHB, but only because I've stayed open to their analysis. Hopefully you will take some time to read about how the system works before thinking your brief inclinations reflect some abstract mastery of its intricacies.

 

I'm not trying to make enemies. Smart-ass tactics just don't do it for me though.

 

I'm not saying that I'm "right", but usually if you think you know way better than the multi-million GM who has helped produce 2 WS rings, you should check (and then re-check) your logic before being so bold as to say so out loud. If you're starting with "Who cares about the minor leagues" I'd say re-checking your work is still pretty far away. Right now is the time for you to learn how teams work.

 

I do care about the minor leagues. Anyone who doesn't is just stupid. Forgive the internet nobody for doing so, but my assessment of Theo is this: excellent drafter, knows when to let big-name players go, not good at picking guys to sign to replace the stars he let go of, below-average trader.

[jacksonianmarch]

So to recap. After I worked a depressing overnight shift, I get to see that nobody really knows what the f*** is going on.

 

I have read that the sox are giving up Manny and a deal has been submitted for the commish to sign off on. SO all we really know is Manny is leaving and greater than 1 mil in cash is involved.

 

But the rest? Who knows.

 

I have heard Grabow and Bay to the Sox with Manny going to the Marlins and the sox giving up 2 top prospects.

 

I have heard Manny and Lowrie leaving with Bay and Wilson coming to the sox.

 

I have heard Manny to the Marlins for Hermida and two top prospects.

 

Right now, the rumor mill is swirling.

[riverside sluggers]

http://www.projo.com/redsox/content/sp_bb_sean_mcadam31_07-31-08_UPB21FT_v17.41212cd.html

 

Nothing really new in the updates from Sean MacAdams. But he does note the Kansas City Royals have offered Ron Mahay to Boston for Brandon Moss. Thoughts?

[BoSox21]

http://www.projo.com/redsox/content/sp_bb_sean_mcadam31_07-31-08_UPB21FT_v17.41212cd.html

 

Nothing really new in the updates from Sean MacAdams. But he does note the Kansas City Royals have offered Ron Mahay to Boston for Brandon Moss. Thoughts?

 

I'd say do it. Moss will never be a regular here anyway

[jacksonianmarch]

Depends on the Manny deal IMO. If the sox deal away Manny and dont get Bay, you should keep Moss since he might even end up beating out Hermida in the long run. if the sox get Bay, then you should do it

[TheKilo]

what would the point of dealing Burrell for Manny be? They are right about equal in terms of performance right now' date=' while Burrell is younger and cheaper[/quote']

 

You just answered your own question.

[TheKilo]

********. If that's the type of trade we're making, we're getting ripped off. I just want to keep Manny.

 

The only one on the Marlins I'd trade Manny for is Hanley.

 

Why are the Marlins going to trade 2 months of Manny for Hanley Ramirez?

 

Do you people even think before you post?

[jacksonianmarch]

No I don't think a player who bats 1000 and hits 400 home runs a year deserves that much money. There are so many more important jobs which deserve more income' date=' especially in today's day in age. I think players' contracts are so ridiculous that it's not even worth discussing who's worth what because in actuality, nobody in sports is worth their salary in my opinion. They play a game for a living and are pampered like royalty.[/quote']

 

can I petition for a raise in this thread?

[BoSox21]

not that im trying to take this thread on a tangent but ive always felt athletes deserve what they make. they are directly responsible for the billions of dollars in revenue professional sports leagues make so why shouldn't they be paid in accordance to the revenue they generate?

 

sorry but 35,000 people don't pay $40 a piece to watch a doctor perform surgery, no matter how much more meaningful the doctor's profession is