...and whoever's playing the Yankees - 2008 Game Thread

[26 to 6]

Individuals who use the phrase "the fact of the matter" when describing their opinions, not facts, diminish their credibility. Do yourself a favor: don't do it, and watch who does.

Appreciate the advice. However, it isn't a fact that the Yankees are chock-full of talented and experienced players? Those combined with the mental aspect (attitude) is what typically determines the outcome.

 

Let's watch what happens, as you request. I predict trades for veterans and a Yankees team that earns about 90 wins in the highly competitive AL East--I do not predict a static team that suddenly becomes competitive. I may be mistaken, and, of course, YMMV.

I'm not dumb, I know the Yankees are gonna go out and get a veteran or two, as will probably the Red Sox, and a dozen other teams. I still think that we have a good team out there now that can only get better with such an addition.

 

If anything has taught ALL of us since 2003......

 

It's a long, long way 'till September.

THANK YOU

 

Rasner reminds me so much of Kennedy and the success he had last year.

Rasner reminds you of Kennedy? Another stellar outing by Rasner tonight should tell you that he and Kennedy; as we know him NOW, are polar opposites. Rasner is a real talented pitcher who has been overlooked for so long. Washington overlooked him and in what was even at the time a puzzling move let him hit the waiver wire, and the Yankees got a steal. I'm not saying he's Don Drysdale, but with a little experience and seasoning he could turn out to be quite a good starting pitcher in the Major Leagues for a few years to come. After all, he is what, like 27 now? Some players develop at a different rate than others, and Rasner has shown in each year he has seen time with the Yanks (3 seasons, like 8 different uniform numbers lol. Anyone remember what he wore in Spring Training, because I can't remember it for the life of me. Been trying to figure it out for weeks. It may have been, but I dont believe it was his current 43) that he has something. It's just a matter of polishing it and channeling it with some consistency, which he looks to be in the process of doing. I'm sure he'll get roughed up a few times this year, but so far, SOOOO good. I expect it will be that way more times than not.

 

The bridge to Mo looks very fragile now.

Sure does. Very disappointing. Just like a week ago when asked about it Joe said in a fit that there were no plans etched in stone, and they would proceed with him as they felt best fit their needs. And it's no question that he fits best in the bullpen right now. That's where we need him.

[Gom]

Are you not the guy who generally give up on your team by summer?

The Red Sox didn't concern me. I had zero doubt that they'd be in the playoffs. What makes me feel better is that the Yankees strong point going into the season, their hitting, has been what has let them down. I have little doubt their hitting will come around.

 

The other thing is that the other teams that were supposed to be competing with the Yankees for the wild card [along with the Red Sox] were the Tigers and Guardians. They are not doing well either. Do I think the Yankees will have a better record than one of those two teams come October.

 

Yes.

 

Last year, I wasn't so sure.

[CrespoBlows]

JHB can probably confirm it, but weren't the Yankees way off of their projected record in May, last year?

[Jayhawk Bill]

JHB can probably confirm it' date=' but weren't the Yankees way off of their projected record in May, last year?[/quote']

 

I can even give you the link for finding this sort of stuff:

 

http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/NYY/2007_sched.shtml

 

The Yankees were 22-29 at the end of May last year.

 

The key reasons for their recovery included a strong summer by Melky Cabrera, a strong second half by Robinson Cano, two of the best seasons in the history of MLB for players at their positions by A-Rod and Posada, and strong starting pitching (29-11) in August and September.

 

But...

 

1) Robinson Cano has never looked this bad;

2) A-Rod and Posada won't be repeating their 2007 magic; and

3) Pitch f/x showed some interesting things regarding ball-strike calls by umpires late last summer. Now MLB knows that every game is being watched by folks who know how to access the Pitch f/x files--I don't expect Ian Kennedy, for instance, to post an annual ERA of 1.89 ever again in his MLB career.

 

***

 

As constructed, the 2008 Yankees are roughly a .500 team. I expect trades, and I expect improvement to follow.

[TheKilo]

I can even give you the link for finding this sort of stuff:

 

http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/NYY/2007_sched.shtml

 

The Yankees were 22-29 at the end of May last year.

 

The key reasons for their recovery included a strong summer by Melky Cabrera, a strong second half by Robinson Cano, two of the best seasons in the history of MLB for players at their positions by A-Rod and Posada, and strong starting pitching (29-11) in August and September.

 

But...

 

1) Robinson Cano has never looked this bad;

2) A-Rod and Posada won't be repeating their 2007 magic; and

3) Pitch f/x showed some interesting things regarding ball-strike calls by umpires late last summer. Now MLB knows that every game is being watched by folks who know how to access the Pitch f/x files--I don't expect Ian Kennedy, for instance, to post an annual ERA of 1.89 ever again in his MLB career.

 

***

 

As constructed, the 2008 Yankees are roughly a .500 team. I expect trades, and I expect improvement to follow.

 

The Yankees were 4-17 in games decided by two runs or less during that run. That's a lot of bad luck they endured last year.

 

This year, they are right in line where they are supposed to be.

[TheKilo]

The Red Sox didn't concern me. I had zero doubt that they'd be in the playoffs. What makes me feel better is that the Yankees strong point going into the season, their hitting, has been what has let them down. I have little doubt their hitting will come around.

 

The other thing is that the other teams that were supposed to be competing with the Yankees for the wild card [along with the Red Sox] were the Tigers and Guardians. They are not doing well either. Do I think the Yankees will have a better record than one of those two teams come October.

 

Yes.

 

Last year, I wasn't so sure.

 

Can you not say their pitching will regress then (especially Rasner, and the loss of Joba from the pen?)

[Mr Crunchy]

this chamberlain move reeks of panic and is influenced by the steinbergs embarrasment.

the idea of moving him into the starters role is solid in theory but in practice it shouldve been done in march not may.

hopefully he doesnt hurt himself when he attacks farsnworth after ole kyle f***s up a few of his starts...why is this guy still counted on anyways?

he's been a blister on every team he's pitched for and inspite of decent #s the yankees are the only place he's been able to hang his hat for a few years.

this move should help ny long term but in the now it reeks of desperation.

[jacksonianmarch]

this chamberlain move reeks of panic and is influenced by the steinbergs embarrasment.

the idea of moving him into the starters role is solid in theory but in practice it shouldve been done in march not may.

hopefully he doesnt hurt himself when he attacks farsnworth after ole kyle f***s up a few of his starts...why is this guy still counted on anyways?

he's been a blister on every team he's pitched for and inspite of decent #s the yankees are the only place he's been able to hang his hat for a few years.

this move should help ny long term but in the now it reeks of desperation.

 

Not really. I think the point was to have him starting come the end of the yr rather than converting him back to relief when he nears his pitch limit. If their intent was that the playoffs would be in sight, then it is a sound plan. With the yankees playing so poorly, it may not end up mattering at all. It all depends on how they decide to use Joba. If he goes 2 innings every 4 days then up to 3 every then to 4 every 5 or so then it will work. Kinda like how the dodgers did it with Billingsley. Get high end innings out of a great arm at the MLB level. If this were a club hell bent on rebuilding, then this would be done at the AAA level. Since the yankees seem to have a few people tugging in different directions, then I think this needs to be done in the bigs. Regardless, I love the fact that Joba is being transitioned. We'll see how much I love it when they put it into practice. If done right, this would be awesome for our future. But there are plenty of areas to f*** up.

[jacksonianmarch]

Can you not say their pitching will regress then (especially Rasner' date=' and the loss of Joba from the pen?)[/quote']

 

our pen has been damn good thus far and Joba is certainly part of the reason. At the same time, our rotation has had its good days and its bad day. And this has resulted in our pen being needed to hold a deficit rather than protect a lead. Add to that the fact that the offense is hitting like a 90 yr old granny, and you have your reasons why this needs to be done. We have the arms out there. Plenty of high end arms with Mo closing the fort. Not a bad way to go. Also, we are seeing this move coincide with the promotions of Robertson and Cox to AAA and Melancon to AA. Those three will see big league time this yr, you can count on that.

[Mr Crunchy]

theyre in the botton 1/2 of the a/l in pitching stats,not that i put a lot of credence in these#s.

the yanks are 5-4 in 1 run games,11-12 against the al east,7-11 against the floundering al central and 3-0 against the west.

its fairly consistant anyway you word it.

what this move does in my opinion is open up trade talks for the untouchable phil hughes and the underachieving ian kennedy...it also lets these kids know that in ny you're only as good as your last start and the concept of working out the kinks and taking the lumps with the youngsters is fantasy.

i wonder how much this move was influenced by lester and lowries efforts or the sox starting pitching in general?

i will again say that the ny yankees are rudderless,theyre being run by reactionary douchebags who could f*** up a wetdream and i have 35 years of watching the steinbrenners do just that...

they need to keep the fredo brothers out of the mix and give brian cashman a chance to do what he planned on doing...they didnt get santana because they wanted to build for the future,making joba chamberlain a starter on may 22nd isnt a sound baseball decision and it goes against everything cashman has said in the press up till last weekend.

this is an order from steinbrenner after watching the sox kids shine this week and nothing will convince me otherwise.

[Paradisecity]

they need to keep the fredo brothers out of the mix and give brian cashman a chance to do what he planned on doing...they didnt get santana because they wanted to build for the future,making joba chamberlain a starter on may 22nd isnt a sound baseball decision and it goes against everything cashman has said in the press up till last weekend.

this is an order from steinbrenner after watching the sox kids shine this week and nothing will convince me otherwise.

 

enough said right there buddy.

[rician blast]

What I find interesting, yet sad in in light of its predictability, is that once the Sox "young guns" threw some quality innings --coupled with the struggles of the Yankees future aces --

I remember my buddy and I both commenting that this would ripple through the Yankees organization.

 

The Yanks FO just can't get the Sox outta their heads....and you know what? "It's beautiful man, beautiful"

[26 to 6]

What I find interesting, yet sad in in light of its predictability, is that once the Sox "young guns" threw some quality innings --coupled with the struggles of the Yankees future aces --

I remember my buddy and I both commenting that this would ripple through the Yankees organization.

 

The Yanks FO just can't get the Sox outta their heads....and you know what? "It's beautiful man, beautiful"

That isn't true. Maybe to an extent, but forever it's been the other way around. Sox fans, players, broadcasters and brass are infatuated with the Yankees. They make every move aronud what the Yankees do and what they anticipate the reaction. NESN postgame analysis used to revolve around the Yankees (idk if it still does because I stopped watching it because Tom Carron makes me want to pull my f***ing hair out).

[26 to 6]

Here's to hoping that Kennedy can at least give us somewhat of decent outing tonight....

[SchillingIsTheNatural]

That isn't true. Maybe to an extent' date=' but forever it's been the other way around. Sox fans, players, broadcasters and brass are infatuated with the Yankees. They make every move aronud what the Yankees do and what they anticipate the reaction. NESN postgame analysis used to revolve around the Yankees (idk if it still does because I stopped watching it because Tom Carron makes me want to pull my f***ing hair out).[/quote']

 

That was once the case but hasn't been since I would say...2005. The Red Sox focus heavily on scouting and drafting. While the Yankees wanted to sign Johnny Damon, the Red Sox wanted the draft pick. Since that draft the Yankees have changed focus to younger home grown players as opposed to going after the Santana's of the world. They are now playing catch up to the Red Sox who are superior in the minor leagues and young prospects at the major league level.

 

Members of the Yankee organization talk up Joba, Kennedy, Hughes, Cano, Cabrera as if they are the games next great players.....Robinson Cano will win a batting title? Melky Cabrera was mentioned in the same breathe with Carlos Gomez and Jacoby Ellsbury in the Santana deals? Kennedy is the next Mike Mussina? Phil Hughes is the future ace of the Yankees? Joba will be a Yankee ace once in the rotation? High hopes but it's more talk than anything. I've seen little to make me believe they will achieve the ceiling the Yankee officials have put ahead of them.

[redsoxrules]

Kennedy got lucky in that inning , O's up 1-0

[Jayhawk Bill]

Members of the Yankee organization talk up Joba' date=' Kennedy, Hughes, Cano, Cabrera as if they are the games next great players.....Robinson Cano will win a batting title? Melky Cabrera was mentioned in the same breathe with Carlos Gomez and Jacoby Ellsbury in the Santana deals? Kennedy is the next Mike Mussina? Phil Hughes is the future ace of the Yankees? Joba will be a Yankee ace once in the rotation? High hopes but it's more talk than anything. I've seen little to make me believe they will achieve the ceiling the Yankee officials have put ahead of them.[/quote']

 

My thought was, and remains, that Melky Cabrera (four years) plus Phil Hughes (six years) plus the leftover salary dollars (a big factor) were worth more than Johan Santana (five or six years). Melky's looking OK this year; Hughes, we now know, pitched injured. I expect that he'll look better in 2009.

 

Ian Kennedy, though, is getting pitches six inches off the plate called strikes tonight--sure, he's great given those calls, but so's Kyle Snyder. Chris Guccione is making left-handed Orioles batters defend a 26-inch-wide strike zone, and that's impossible.

 

By the way, Burres is NOT getting Ian Kennedy's strike zone.

 

By the way as well, the Yankees are 9-1 in the last ten games of theirs that Guccione has called, including two Shawn Chacon wins and one Aaron Small win.

[SchillingIsTheNatural]

My thought was' date=' and remains, that Melky Cabrera (four years) plus Phil Hughes (six years) plus the leftover salary dollars (a big factor) were worth more than Johan Santana (five or six years). Melky's looking OK this year; Hughes, we now know, pitched injured. I expect that he'll look better in 2009.[/quote']

 

Maybe but if Hughes doesn't match Santana's success for the next 5 to 6 years and Melky Cabrera remains OK...I'm thinking it was a mistake.

 

I remain skeptical about the future of Yankee prospects, I almost get the feeling they parade them through the minors quickly and talk them up to give them the appearance they are destined for greatness.

[Jayhawk Bill]

Maybe but if Hughes doesn't match Santana's success for the next 5 to 6 years and Melky Cabrera remains OK...I'm thinking it was a mistake.

 

Whoa...you left out the salary difference.

 

If Santana goes, oh, 90-60 over these six years, Hughes goes 60-60, and Melky hits .280 with medium power while playing an average CF for four years, the Yankees win big time. Santana is being paid A LOT more money than the Yankees' kids.

[26 Reasons to Hate Us]

Whoa...you left out the salary difference.

 

If Santana goes, oh, 90-60 over these six years, Hughes goes 60-60, and Melky hits .280 with medium power while playing an average CF for four years, the Yankees win big time. Santana is being paid A LOT more money than the Yankees' kids.

 

Take the money you would have given Santana and give it to Sabathia, and the Yankees definitely win.

[Mr Crunchy]

big stones from the maligned kennedy this evening

battled and got some big pitches when he needed em

nice effort and i wont dismiss this against baltimore cause milford high wouldve croaked him last week

[Jayhawk Bill]

big stones from the maligned kennedy this evening

 

Did you mean, "Big zone for the maligned Kennedy this evening?"

[26 to 6]

That was once the case but hasn't been since I would say...2005. The Red Sox focus heavily on scouting and drafting. While the Yankees wanted to sign Johnny Damon, the Red Sox wanted the draft pick. Since that draft the Yankees have changed focus to younger home grown players as opposed to going after the Santana's of the world. They are now playing catch up to the Red Sox who are superior in the minor leagues and young prospects at the major league level.

 

Members of the Yankee organization talk up Joba, Kennedy, Hughes, Cano, Cabrera as if they are the games next great players.....Robinson Cano will win a batting title? Melky Cabrera was mentioned in the same breathe with Carlos Gomez and Jacoby Ellsbury in the Santana deals? Kennedy is the next Mike Mussina? Phil Hughes is the future ace of the Yankees? Joba will be a Yankee ace once in the rotation? High hopes but it's more talk than anything. I've seen little to make me believe they will achieve the ceiling the Yankee officials have put ahead of them.

For the sake of fairness lets say 2006. lol

 

And you really don't think Cano has the ability to win a batting title? What, because he's off to a slow start this season? Melky hasn't shown you that he's a good young center fielder with tons of potential? He's shown about as much, maybe more than Jacoby and Gomez have. Hits well, plays good defense (although he may zig-zag from time to time out there), has a good arm, runs well, etc. Kennedy has similar stuff as Mike Mussina and could one day be up there. If Hughes's performance this year is what you're basing that statement on, what about last year? Give him some time, he needs more than 19 Major League starts before we declare that he is a failure. I'm getting a whif of some good old-fashinoed anti-Yankee bias with this one.

[26 to 6]

Am I dreaming or did I actually see Ian Kennedy put up a quality start tonight? Generous zone or not, he still looked good tonight. Great if you want to compare him to his previous 6 starts this year.

 

And Mo is NASTY as usual. He got snubbed on that Cy Young back in '06, something tells me if he keeps it up he may be in contention for it this year.

[26 to 6]

Whaddya know, it's Robbie Cano comin' through in the 9th!

[Mr Crunchy]

well mr jayhawk in this strange game where the defense puts the ball in play ive come to realize the commodity of good luck is essential over 162 games and if the boy got some calls at home against a suck orioles team he may have had the karma coming.

i hate the yankees with a passion i reserve for cancer and diddlers,god help me i just cant help it but i do call spades spades and theyve been on the business end of some s*** luck for a while now

since tony womack and luis gonzales 120 footer in the desert the worm has been turning,the tony clark groundrule double and rivera walking millar and a host of other bizzare events have made me believe that the gods are back on our shoulder but it can only get so good for so long so if they catch a break tonight i'll contain my rage and enjoy the 7.5 game lead entering mem day weekend..

[ORS]

He's shown about as much' date=' maybe more than Jacoby and Gomez have. Hits well, plays good defense (although he may zig-zag from time to time out there), has a good arm, runs well, etc.[/quote']

Please stop. Nothing in the statistical record from the minors or majors supports the idea of equivalence between Ellsbury and Cabrera.

[26 to 6]

Please stop. Nothing in the statistical record from the minors or majors supports the idea of equivalence between Ellsbury and Cabrera.

Go look at your stats, I'll WATCH the game.

 

If you would like I'll return in 20 minutes with some analysis to satisfy your statistical desires.

 

..the point I was trying to make though is that if Melky hasn't proven anything, then what exactly has Jacoby proven?? s***!

[ORS]

Please do, show me something to back up that assertion. And, I watch the games too. The stats are right. Ellsbury is better.

[Mr Crunchy]

ellsbury gave the sox a huge spark last summer when he came up and we finally got the guy to replace damon at the top of the order plus he's a better base runner at his tender age than the numb damon ever was...ya thats a bold statement but so far its true