Done to a Crisp and Gonzalez Too

[example1]

If I were in the Yankees shoes I'd rather see Marte. He's never played well on the MLB level and really hasn't proven anything. As I've stated before, I'm not a big fan of hitting prospects, most of them fizzle out. Crisp is a proven hitter with a decent track record against the Yankees. Riske is an improvement over Mota.

 

The Red Sox won out on this deal, BIG TIME.

 

I think both teams got what they were looking for from the deal. We won't know how great a deal it is for the Sox until we see how good Marte is. The sox got a few needs addressed, adding a key bullpen arm and a leadoff/switch-hitting CF for the future. I don't think the sox will be disappointed with this trade at any point.

 

Marte is more valuable to a team like Cleveland than Boston, at this point. Crisp is more valuable to a team like BOS than Cleveland given their needs.

 

I'm very happy about this.

[yankeessuck013]

Exactly, Guardians ONLY got the better deal if Marte makes it at the ML level. Not every propsect makes it in the Majors.

 

Riske > Mota

Bard

Crisp ? Marte

[ORS]

I like Dom Perignon champagne, but I don't like the price you have to pay to drink it. I feel the same way about Coco Crisp.

 

Elsrbueno, I peaked around a few of the usual sites (BP, BR, THT), and I'm sorry to say that no defensive stats paint a favorable picture of Crisp as a CF. That said, pretty much every defensive statistical system is full of holes and cannot be taken at face value. They give you an idea, but they don't tell the whole story. The Sox have control of him for 4 years, and it would surprise me very much if he was much worse than Damon will be for the next 4 years. So we got that going for us......which is nice. [/carl spangler]

[guapo34]

Good trade, obviously not a great one. If Marte flops though this looks like a steal for us. Even if Marte reaches his full potential, which i think is 30-35 HRs and a .275 BA, Crisp improves our club a lot this year. If you compare what Crisp will cost over the next 4 years to what damon cost its probably a $32 million difference, and I think Crisp will be better than Damon. You can use that $32 million to make up the loss of a cheap young 3b like Marte.

[26 to 6]

If I were in the Yankees shoes I'd rather see Marte. He's never played well on the MLB level and really hasn't proven anything. As I've stated before, I'm not a big fan of hitting prospects, most of them fizzle out. Crisp is a proven hitter with a decent track record against the Yankees. Riske is an improvement over Mota.

 

The Red Sox won out on this deal, BIG TIME.

Marte has never played well in the Majors? Well lets address that one

...Hes played 24 games. I dont think its very fair to base that on 24 games. According to all the scouts, experts, etc he is supposed to be very good. Im sure not all of them are wrong.

[26 to 6]

I think both teams got what they were looking for from the deal. We won't know how great a deal it is for the Sox until we see how good Marte is. The sox got a few needs addressed, adding a key bullpen arm and a leadoff/switch-hitting CF for the future. I don't think the sox will be disappointed with this trade at any point.

 

Marte is more valuable to a team like Cleveland than Boston, at this point. Crisp is more valuable to a team like BOS than Cleveland given their needs.

 

I'm very happy about this.

Good post. Both sides got what they needed.

[riverside sluggers]

To all who were against trading Shoppach, wasnt trading him close to 100% possible and most talked about for the longest time? The guys is close to major league ready but has varitek blocking him for the next 3 seasons, and him being 25 is not fair to Kelly. I'll wager he will be traded again as a chip to another team who actually is in need of a starting catcher, as Victor Martinez is primed to be a cornerstone of that team.

 

Two words: Jonathan Egan. He was drafted last season and will start in Lowell this April. He has been projected by several scouts as a power hitting catcher, very solid defensively with a Yadier-Molina type throwing arm to nail runners down.

 

----------------

Besides that, as you can see from my avatar I'm plain and simple ecstatic about this acquisition. Like someone had said before, he fits the "dirt dog" mentality and cares 100% about baseball, organization and city he plays for, especially the fans. Mota or Riske, for me its hands down Riske. Yea sure his K's were down last season but still compiled a 3.10 ERA in 73 innings and a 0.95 WHIP. He's also got what I eblieve could be the best infield defense of the AL East to back him up.

[AlexanderTheGreat13]

I like Dom Perignon champagne, but I don't like the price you have to pay to drink it. I feel the same way about Coco Crisp.

 

Elsrbueno, I peaked around a few of the usual sites (BP, BR, THT), and I'm sorry to say that no defensive stats paint a favorable picture of Crisp as a CF. That said, pretty much every defensive statistical system is full of holes and cannot be taken at face value. They give you an idea, but they don't tell the whole story. The Sox have control of him for 4 years, and it would surprise me very much if he was much worse than Damon will be for the next 4 years. So we got that going for us......which is nice. [/carl spangler]

I love the anology and I agree. I think you guys might have overpaied for Crisp. IMO I'd rather overpay money wise to get a player(Damon) then overpay and give up a very talent prospect for a player like Crisp. Who would you rather have? Damon and Marte or just Crisp?

[damonwho]

We got COCO

[ksushi]

I don't know if we really over paid that badly so don't get too excited. Marte is big, but in Theo I Trust. If Marte turns out to be a 30/100 guy in 07, then we overpaid big time, but I don't think thats the case. I would have loved to keep Marte, but Riske is better than Mota and Shoppach for Bard doesn't matter at all, its a complete wash because of how unimportant a role either of those guys would have with the Sox. So it isn't like we traded Marte for Jim Edmonds who would give us great numbers for maybe 2 years, we traded for a 26 year old who hit .323 on the road last year and .270 in one of the best pitchers parks in the majors.

 

I fully expect his offensive output to be very comporable with Damon's next season, its his defense I worry about. Whether we overpaid, we'll find out eventually.

[Rdsxmbnt]

I think its a good deal, Coco is a solid player who plays a premium position in CF and if he posts a .850 OPS (which i think is very possible) than I think hes going to be an outstanding pickup. Besides theres more offensive 3B in the league than CFs so we could probaly find a good 3B via FA or switch Youk to 3B and sign a 1B like Derek Lee and were all set, add in the fact that we upgraded our pen with Riske and basically just swapped C's (when shoppach had little role this season).

[AlexanderTheGreat13]

If Marte turns out to be a 30/100 guy in 07, then we overpaid big time, but I don't think thats the case.

 

See thats the thing......you dont know if thats the case. I dont know if thats the case. If I were to go by people scouting reports ETC then I would think that is the case. The final word on wheather this is a good trade or not as usual when it involves prospects wont be writen untill they play in the majors consistantly. I also dont think you guys upgraded that hugely in Riske. Wedge the manager of the Guardians stopped using Riske in pressure situations last season because he couldnt get it done. The Sox are in pressure games all the time. Just in case you dont believe me here: http://rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_main.asp?sport=MLB&id=6309

[Beckett95]

hopefully bard will end up backing up v-tek instead of flaherty. Earlier in the off season, the Padres were trying to get Bard to be there starter. He seems to be like a younger Mirrabelli. Hes been a good AAA player but only played in 34 games last year because of victor martinez. If he does catch Wake and does what mirrabelli did last year, he'd probably get around 50 games.

 

bard scouting report--

 

Hitting, Baserunning & Defense

 

Bard is a switch-hitter with a line-drive swing. He hit better late in the season after hitting coach Eddie Murray convinced him to open his stance and be more aggressive when he was ahead in the count. Defensively, Bard calls a good game and threw out 31.7 percent (19-for-60) of the basestealers he faced. But at times he struggled to catch the ball cleanly and block balls in the dirt. Bard worked with catching coach Joel Skinner to cut down his movement behind the plate. Bard runs like you'd think a sore-kneed, 215-pound catcher would.

 

http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/B/josh-bard.shtml

[riverside sluggers]

See thats the thing......you dont know if thats the case. I dont know if thats the case. If I were to go by people scouting reports ETC then I would think that is the case. The final word on wheather this is a good trade or not as usual when it involves prospects wont be writen untill they play in the majors consistantly. I also dont think you guys upgraded that hugely in Riske. Wedge the manager of the Guardians stopped using Riske in pressure situations last season because he couldnt get it done. The Sox are in pressure games all the time. Just in case you dont believe me here: http://rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_main.asp?sport=MLB&id=6309

 

Thank you on giving us the lowdown. Sox do win out here considering they have acquired an outfielder that is improving his game each season (offense/defense), and is just 26.

 

Lets just wait until Marte is fully a starter in the majors, which is so far looking like 2007 as Cleveland will have him in Triple A for this season.

 

Riske is an improvement over Mota. How is that not clear? It has also been noted that the Sox are going to have Riske in the middle relief role. They can leave the close late innings to Julian Tavarez, Rudy Seanez, Mike Timlin, maybe Papelbon and a more in focus Foulke.

 

No injury questions, such as what has been surrounding Mota.

Has proven himself in the AL.

3 consecutive seasons of ERAs under 4, and WHIP of under 1.

[Beckett95]

Crisp has a rap on this CD called "we got that thing". hes going to have to compete with arroyo to see whos got better music

[AlexanderTheGreat13]

Lets just wait until Marte is fully a starter in the majors, which is so far looking like 2007 as Cleveland will have him in Triple A for this season.

Gosh I coulda swore I said the final chapter of this trade wont be written untill the prospects play consistantly in the majors. Also I said you might get an upgrade with Riske but it wont be much at all. Hard to reason with a Red Sox apologist anyway :dunno: .

[a700hitter]

Finally, it is done! Now, it's time for the FO to put the full court press on Clemens.

[ACL BoSox]

I still can't believe how much people are upset about losing a PROSPECT. Get this through your heads, most of them fail. A lot of them do well, but most simply do not live up to their potential.

 

Great trade, makes the Red Sox many times better IMO.

[riverside sluggers]

Finally, it is done! Now, it's time for the FO to put the full court press on Clemens.

 

That would be a nice cap off to the offseason. Its looking like it will be during Spring Training that Wells will be dealt off to interested teams who will be desperate for starting pitching, in come prospects. A trade of Matt Clement also cant be ruled out as of yet. If at all possible, it would be a great thing if Roger's first game were to be May 1 (notably Damon's return to Fenway).

[jsinger121]

Finally, it is done! Now, it's time for the FO to put the full court press on Clemens.

 

I don't think the Red Sox will pursue clemens. The sox have 7 starters already and Clemens is either going to retire, sign with the Rangers, or wait to May 1st and resign with the Astros.

[SchillingIsTheNatural]

I believe Roger Clemens opened up a restaurant somewhere in Texas and he wants to be close durring operations. Meaning he would obviously stay in Texas. However, a trip by Theo may be able to convince Roger otherwise. If he was able to convince Roger to go to Boston one more season I bet that influences David Wells to want to stay. Imagine the rotation with three future hall of famers in Curt Schilling, Roger Clemens, and David Wells. Not to mention the end of the rotation in Josh Beckett and Tim Wakefield. Put Papelbon and Arroyo in the pen and trade off Matt Clement.

[riverside sluggers]

A perfect sendoff to Roger's career, ending it full circle in Boston. Theo's the man to get it done, cmon the guy brought us our ace in Schilling who helped salvage the ALCS and then was able to bring back together the Coco Crisp trade when all reports were that the deal was just about dead.

 

IMO Roger would be more productive if he came to Boston than Ameriquest Field. He of course knows the division and ballpark, but what really sticks out is the fact of how many balmy 100+ degree games happen at Ameriquest. That factor mixed with Rog's age this season dont go well together. Minute Maid Park, it wasnt an issue because of the roof. Im sure any manager would be cautious giving the ball to a 43 year old pitcher whose had some back issues on a 100-105 degree day, even if it is the great Rocket.

[yankeessuck013]

The one thing Damon is far and away better than Crisp is taking pitches and working the count. How many times did Johnny have a 10 pitch AB? I guarentee it was more than Coco. I have faith that Papa Jack can work with him on this and make him the "tablesetter" Damon is.

 

also anyone know what the status of A-Gonz is?

[riverside sluggers]

All indications are that it will be announced shortly. According to WEEI, the Sox will announce such signing after they hold a press conference welcoming the newest additions. I cant wait to see that, Beckett said in a recent interview that he's leaning towards the #19

[KeepTheFaith1229]

I think A-Gon in Fenway can be a much better player than people think he will be. He actually hit 23 homers in '04 at Pro Player, a major pitcher's park. We just need to get him to walk.

[riverside sluggers]

Though Crisp is a first pitch type of player, Im surprised by this stat that he doesnt strike out a lot really. This past season he had just 81 Ks in 145 games played. An average of a strikeout every 7th/8th at bat.

[Ray10]

Wow I was surprised when I saw that Mota was still a part of this deal. Considering he failed his physical. But either way a deal that is really going to help the Sox. Next all the need is a SS.

[MANNYHOF24]

Crisp is a great find for the FO, this is the closest to replacing Damon they could have done. Plus with losing Marte who knows what he is going to be. Yeah the experts say he is going to be great, but the Experts also said that Michael Olawakandi was going to be like Tim Duncan

[Cityofchampions33]

Yeah, not every prospect pans out in the end, plus there's gotta be something wierd with Marte that would lead to him being traded twice and rejected by the TAMPA BAY DEVIL RAYS for Julio Lugo. As i said before combining the Fenway factor, along with Papa Jack, and how he has steadily been improving over the past couple of years, he has the potential to hit .315+ with us and hit some more HRs.

[Beckett95]

All indications are that it will be announced shortly. According to WEEI, the Sox will announce such signing after they hold a press conference welcoming the newest additions. I cant wait to see that, Beckett said in a recent interview that he's leaning towards the #19

 

http://shop.mlb.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2191268&cp&sGroup=MLB&keywords=beckett&searchId=10506936673&clickid=topnav_search_txt&parentPage=search