Done to a Crisp and Gonzalez Too

[MC Hammer]

from Buster Olney's blog on ESPN

My ******* knows more about baseball than Buster Olney

 

I'm so tired of people on ESPN pretending like they talked to someone just because they need a story. Buster didn't talk to anyone.

[Optimist]

uhh whats ur say i dunno not to be a pecimist but we got a cereal box for our center fielder....

 

 

http://www.cereal.com/Breakfast-Cereals/cocoakrispies.jpg

 

:what:

[MC Hammer]

crisp i heard is young and up n coming...i think he can help us young wise and so is gonzalez we could build up for a 07/08 champ

Alex Gonzalez is hardly a building block for a franchise. He's an average SS. There's no reason to be excited about him.

[Ray10]

So what's happening with Gonzalez are the Sox still going to go after him even though the Crisp trade fell through at the last minute or are they just not intersted in him anymore because of this.

[Redguitar985]

They've always got Cora if it doesn't.

[schillingouttheks]

uhh whats ur say i dunno not to be a pecimist but we got a cereal box for our center fielder....

 

 

http://www.cereal.com/Breakfast-Cereals/cocoakrispies.jpg

I'm sorry, but I couldn't help but laugh at you when I saw this...

 

OH s***...I JUST realized why RS has that avatar. Ok lol whatev...

 

Gonzalez, I'm actually beginning to like this idea. Elsrbueno made me think differently about it when he reminded me about the '03 Marlins. We're piecing together Lowell, Beckett, possibly Gonzalez (all members of that world series team), and then some members of our '04 world series team. I'm beginning to like the looks of this.

[yankeessuck013]

If we don't get Crisp--what other options are the Sox looking at (if they are)?

 

How many think this Crisp deal will get done, using a different reliever (Delcarmen).

 

I am both excited and nervous about this season--it's really almost a whole new team. Most of the 2004 faces are gone but there are some exciting new possibilities.

 

I think we lost a lot of momentum when Theo declined the offer--and that really hurt the progress of the off-season. I hope the Sox FO can make up some ground quickly.

 

I am pretty sure the Crisp deal will get done. I think the only way the Guardians would back out of this deal would be if Marte was not included.

[ksushi]

The Guardians I don't think really want to do a deal.

 

Giving up Delcarmen would be horrible. Thats too much. I'm pretty sure this gets done too though. Don't get me wrong, if it gets done with Delcarmen, thats to much unless we get a Garko or a Miller back in return. I do think though that a Coco Crisp for Marte and Shoppach deal will be floated around for awhile and I think that might be something the Guardians do.

[jsinger121]

i think this deal is going to fall apart.....they have issues with mota plus the leaks of the trade coming from boston about the trade.

[Strotorious]

There is another option at centerfield that makes a lot more sense then giving up Marte to get Crisp. My second team is the Phillies so I've seen a lot of Jason Michaels. He is a very good player who has been underused his entire career. He's a consistent .300 hitter with a very good eye that bumps his OBP to .400. He's a great situational hitter and a great clutch hitter. He's only average defensively and doesn't steal a lot of bases. The Phillies are making him available and are in dire need of pitching. If we offered Clement/Arroyo/Wells for Michaels they might even throw in some prospects too. But as much sense as it would make for both teams, I still don't see it happening.

[Rdsxmbnt]

Yea i agree, reports im hearing is that at the moment its not happening. If the Red Sox can get a solid OF like Kearns/Micheals/ or even Matos AND keep Marte then id be very happy with teh decision.

[schillingouttheks]

Matos should not be used as anything more than a 4th OF.

 

Jason Michaels has been discussed on here a lot, but if Crisp is available I'd rather him. I also don't like what Michaels does off the field...<_>

[a700hitter]

Kearns, Michael? A big step down. Crisp brought a legit lead-off bat and speed. I hope Marte turns out to be a stud, but I am not going to hold my breath.

[a700hitter]

Kearns, Michael? A big step down. Crisp brought a legit lead-off bat and speed. I hope Marte turns out to be a stud, but I am not going to hold my breath.

[schillingouttheks]

Right. If we're dealing Marte for a future stud who's only 26 and about to enter his prime soon enough in Crisp, I'm all for it. Not to mention we'd be killing 2 birds with 1 stone by filling the lead off spot and the CF hole. Matos can NOT lead off. And Michaels, well, I guess as a last resort. I'm in favor of Reed over Michaels, but it seems as though the Reed talks have died down.

[guapo34]

While I like Crisp I don't think Kearns is a big step down. Kearns is still young and has been inconsistent but has better patience at the plate. I think most defensive metrics rate him better too, but I'm skeptical of those.

[ksushi]

Yeah and Kearns middle name is DL and he doesn't play CF.

 

The Reed talks died down because the M's want Lester for him. Michaels would likely only cost us Mota. Mato's as far as I know has been discussed as a fourth outfielder, people need to realize as a fourth outfielder Mato's has a ton of value. He's a fourth outfielder now in Baltimore, and they have a need at second base with Roberts being a question mark right now. Graff for Mato's? You can't complain about that.

[26 to 6]

OH s***...I JUST realized why RS has that avatar. Ok lol whatev...

Little slow there, schil? j/p with ya

 

My ******* knows more about baseball than Buster Olney

Buster's the man!!

 

Yea i agree, reports im hearing is that at the moment its not happening. If the Red Sox can get a solid OF like Kearns/Micheals/ or even Matos AND keep Marte then id be very happy with teh decision.

I agree that it would be good for the Sox. Kearns is a pretty good, young player. Though not as good as Crisp, he could get the job done. But if thats the case, like 700hitter said, Boston still needs to go out and find a leadoff man.

 

So what's happening with Gonzalez are the Sox still going to go after him even though the Crisp trade fell through at the last minute or are they just not intersted in him anymore because of this.

Good question. I was thinking that same thing. It doesnt make sense to get Gonzalez, but hey..I wont be complaining

[26 to 6]

Yeah and Kearns middle name is DL and he doesn't play CF.

 

The Reed talks died down because the M's want Lester for him. Michaels would likely only cost us Mota. Mato's as far as I know has been discussed as a fourth outfielder, people need to realize as a fourth outfielder Mato's has a ton of value. He's a fourth outfielder now in Baltimore, and they have a need at second base with Roberts being a question mark right now. Graff for Mato's? You can't complain about that.

I think the Sox should just trade Mota for Michaels, like Cleveland was going to do. Granted, Crisp is better, but your holding onto the best prospect in baseball, and really not losing anything (If Mota failing Cleveland's physical is true...which I guess it is). He wont be in the Red SOx outfield for years to come, but a good guy to have there until Jacoby is ready.

[jsinger121]

mota did not fail the physical.....cleveland has concerns over his elbow.....and they were never going to trade mota to the phillies. it was arthur rhodes going to the phillies for michaels.

[yankeessuck013]

i like this deal a lot more, seems like everyone gets more for less, too bad it will never happen

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2305550

[riverside sluggers]

I think the Sox should just trade Mota for Michaels, like Cleveland was going to do. Granted, Crisp is better, but your holding onto the best prospect in baseball, and really not losing anything (If Mota failing Cleveland's physical is true...which I guess it is). He wont be in the Red SOx outfield for years to come, but a good guy to have there until Jacoby is ready.

 

This is what the Guardians and Phillies had agreed to do, not exactly how the Sox trade would be. IMO expect Phillies to ask a lot more than just a reliever if the Crisp trade falls through and the Sox are thrust back into "panic mode"

[MC Hammer]

Buster's the man!!

Well of course a Yankee fan would think so.

[nueva]

this trade definitly reminds me of the renterina trade.. some people didn't like marte some did i think if they get it done it would be fine by me but id be sad given up mart ...but its up to theo :thumbsup:

[SchillingIsTheNatural]

this trade definitly reminds me of the renterina trade.. some people didn't like marte some did i think if they get it done it would be fine by me but id be sad given up mart ...but its up to theo :thumbsup:

 

I'm not sure if people were upset giving up Renteria or creating a hole at SS. I was not impressed with Renteria in Boston. I thought his batting was mediocre and his defense was obviously horrific. Add all that with the money involved...eww

 

I was more upset we have a huge hole at SS then they were talking about Julio Lugo who is just as bad defensively. On that note I'm happy they are talking about Alex Gonzalez cause he makes his living in MLB through defense. Its like Pokey Reese....they are a sure thing at defense otherwise they wouldn't have been in the league this long.

[elsrbueno]

I'm not sure if people were upset giving up Renteria or creating a hole at SS. I was not impressed with Renteria in Boston. I thought his batting was mediocre and his defense was obviously horrific. Add all that with the money involved...eww

 

I was more upset we have a huge hole at SS then they were talking about Julio Lugo who is just as bad defensively. On that note I'm happy they are talking about Alex Gonzalez cause he makes his living in MLB through defense. Its like Pokey Reese....they are a sure thing at defense otherwise they wouldn't have been in the league this long.

 

I absolutely think Gonzalez is a better solution than Julio Lugo. Similar range, and Gonzalez makes more plays. Pokey was flat-out amazing with what he could do on the field, and I haven't seen a lot of Alex Gonzalez, but if he can come close to Pokey's glove and hit .270 with 10ish homers and 70 RBI he'll be a great pickup. And I don't think, in this lineup, those are unreasonable expectations.

 

On the Coco Crisp front, he's a guy I'd LOVE to have. Giving up Andy Marte might be something we'd have to swallow hard and suck it up to get him, and I'm OK with that because Coco is 26, and is already a dynamic player. Judging by the Cleveland fans' reaction, he's a guy Boston players are going to LOVE. It's when people start talking about Shoppach, Delcarmen, AND Marte for Crisp, Bard, and Riske that I start to wonder if it's worth it.

 

IF rumors are true, and Austin Kearns could be had for Matt Clement, I say the Red Sox get that done. I'd imagine the Red Sox might even be able to bleed the Reds of a little bit more considering the exceedingly high cost of pitching this winter. Austin Kearns or Willy Mo Pena (who I read the Reds were MORE interested in trading) and a prospect for Clement is a great trade for the Red Sox. Trading from depth to get a right handed hitting outfielder with some pop. This gives the Red Sox some serious negociating ability IMO, because NOW they have some options. Trot Nixon could be used in a potential deal with Seattle for Jeremy Reed, or in any deal for a young CF.

 

I don't know why people are so low on Austin Kearns. He hit 25 homers last year (combined AAA and MLB) and is just 25 years old. His defense, while not stellar, is servicable. We'd still need a leadoff hitter but we could offer Kearns to the Guardians for Crisp straight up, and if they decline we still still have the option of trading Marte if we so choose.

 

In the ideal world Crisp could come to Boston without having dealt Andy Marte, and the Clement deal seems like the one that is MUTUALLY beneficial to all 3 teams. The Reds get the top-end pitcher they desire, the Guardians get a young power bat who can contribute NOW (without trading extra pieces in addition to Crisp), and the Sox get a leadoff hitter. If Cleveland balks though I'd persue Kearns for Clement in a separate deal.

 

Am I the only one who's exceedingly confident that with Theo back at the helm the Red Sox will make the RIGHT decision?

[Americal Man]

Not a mention of murphy as part of a trade or a cf in waiting. has he just disappeared?

[SchillingIsTheNatural]

Not a mention of murphy as part of a trade or a cf in waiting. has he just disappeared?

 

He is 24 years old and it sounds like he still isn't done developing. Thats not particularly old by any means but from what I hear he is not ready for the major leagues. The deals the Red Sox are rumored in mostly consist of MLB players or MLB ready players. I did hear that Brandon Moss could be a part of a deal going to Cleveland along with Austin Kearns in that potential three-way deal. No backups to that rumor so take it for what its worth.

[Americal Man]

What I've read about him is that he's there with the glove but hasn't doen too well against better pitching. Since he was not a consideration in the crisp trade I just wondered about his projected value - he was a first round pick and they are usually sought after in trades.

[nueva]

Uhh, do you think it is possible to get Michaels and Crisp??? Though my main goal is crisp that guy i think has the potential to be very good.