Done to a Crisp and Gonzalez Too

[Rdsxmbnt]

I read somewhere that the physical showed no new injuries that the Sox and Guardians didnt already know about, anyone else hear that?

[ksushi]

Its probably not any injury either, if Mota gets hit in the face Clement-style with a ball, they're obviously not going to compensate the Guardians for that. It has to be an elbow specific injury stemming from the same injury that landed him on the DL last year. If they're manager runs him out there until his elbow is in shambles, I doubt the sox would compensate for that either.

[Beckett95]

theres probably certain limits to it, like pitch count, how many innings he pitches, etc.

[ksushi]

Well, it most likely has to be stemmed from the prior injury so that really is the only limit you need.

[riverside sluggers]

BULLPEN

MRP—David Riske—R

MRP—Lenny Dinardo/Craig Breslow—L

MRP—Rudy Seanez—R

SU—Mike Timlin—R

SU—Julian Tavarez—R

CL—Keith Foulke—R

 

ROTATION

1. Curt Schilling—R

2. Josh Beckett—R

3. Tim Wakefield—R

4. Matt Clement—R

5. Bronson Arroyo—R

 

dont forget about Papelbon in the mix of the staff

[Beckett95]

ino, but for now i dont no were to put him. If someone gets injured or they suck, he'll be the first person called up to take their spot.

[riverside sluggers]

no offense, I dont really think they will start him off in Pawtucket

[Beckett95]

i dont think so either and i hope they dont but they'll need to either release or trade 2 pitchers for him to have a spot.

[Beckett95]

or maybe they go without a lefty in the pen and take 12 pitchers

[ksushi]

What are you talking about? Right now Papelbon is slated to be in the rotation. He will be with the big club from opening day on in some capacity.

[Beckett95]

schilling

beckett

wakefield

wells

clement

arroyo

riske

seanez

tavarez

foulke

timlin

dinardo/breslow

papelbon

 

they should only carry 11 pitchers and right now they have 13.

 

I AGREE papelbon should and hopefully will be in the rotation, but there going to need to trade someone or release someone for it to happen, which i think they will.

[Rdsxmbnt]

deal close to being done?

 

From Rotoworld.com

FOXSports.com's Ken Rosenthal believes the Red Sox and Guardians are close to completing a Coco Crisp trade.

Rosenthal doesn't have the particulars, though he believes the Guardians are still getting Andy Marte and Guillermo Mota. It's possible that the previous six-player swap, which included catchers Kelly Shoppach and Josh Bard changing teams and David Riske going to Boston, will go through after all. Jan. 27 - 4:35 pm et

[ksushi]

wells is not going to be on the opening day roster and arroyo will be in the bullpen before papelbon. papelbon isnt going to get the kevin youkilis treatment. he proved last year to be a very good pitcher and he will be on the opening day roster. i dont know what youre missing.

[Beckett95]

rotation

 

beckett

schilling

wakefield

clement

papelbon

 

pen

 

arroyo

riske

dinardo/breslow

seanez

timlin

tavarez

foulke

 

which reliever isnt on the roster on opening day? Id say either seanez or the lefties. Hopefully they dont have 12 pitchers on the roster.

[guapo34]

wells is not going to be on the opening day roster and arroyo will be in the bullpen before papelbon. papelbon isnt going to get the kevin youkilis treatment. he proved last year to be a very good pitcher and he will be on the opening day roster. i dont know what youre missing.

 

He'll obviously be on the roster but I wouldn't be surprised to see him start in the bullpen. The Sox like to limit innings on their young pitchers. He threw 148 innings last year. A full season in the rotation might bring him well over 200 innings. A month or two in the bullpen before a promotion to the starting rotation might be a the plan.

[guapo34]

rotation

 

beckett

schilling

wakefield

clement

papelbon

 

pen

 

arroyo

riske

dinardo/breslow

seanez

timlin

tavarez

foulke

 

which reliever isnt on the roster on opening day? Id say either seanez or the lefties. Hopefully they dont have 12 pitchers on the roster.

 

Definately the lefties, without question. Seanez is a major league pitcher who has been very good lately.

[yankeessuck013]

which reliever isnt on the roster on opening day? Id say either seanez or the lefties. Hopefully they dont have 12 pitchers on the roster.

 

unless seanez gets injured during ST he'll be on the O.D Roster no doubt.

[ksushi]

I see what you're saying, but I don't think they can do that. I mean, sure theoretically thats a good way to do it but who do you yank from the rotation to make a spot for him?

 

I don't think the Sox look to limit innings, especially not when hes going to be 25. They were careful with him last year because he used to be a relief pitcher and he had thrown a lot of innings already. I think they're confident with him in the rotation.

 

I highly doubt Seanez will be dropped off the roster. I have no idea who Breslow is, but I assume Dinardo will be on the roster too. I don't see whats wrong with 12 pitchers. I'd prefer to have Seanez on my roster than Willie Harris to be honest. Seanez had an excellent year last year and he could be a very valuable additon.

[RedSoxRooter]

Anyone think that Riske, Tavaris or Seanez could close instead of moving Timlin or Paps into the spot if Foulke goes down again?

[Beckett95]

i dont think they need a lefty as long as Seanez stays healthy. Seanez can get out lefties as good as right handed hitter. Arroyo and Timlin also are pretty even when it comes to lefty vs. righty. Tavarez and Riske are not good against lefties.

 

Seanez's splits in '05

 

against lefties--2.45 era, .230 avg

against righties--2.90 era, .212 avg

[ksushi]

Tavarez could definetly make that move, but I think Papelbon might be better suited for that than any of them. Its yet to be seen what Hansen can do, but papelbon might assume that role should foulke s*** the bed.

[guapo34]

I see what you're saying, but I don't think they can do that. I mean, sure theoretically thats a good way to do it but who do you yank from the rotation to make a spot for him?

 

I don't think the Sox look to limit innings, especially not when hes going to be 25. They were careful with him last year because he used to be a relief pitcher and he had thrown a lot of innings already. I think they're confident with him in the rotation.

 

I highly doubt Seanez will be dropped off the roster. I have no idea who Breslow is, but I assume Dinardo will be on the roster too. I don't see whats wrong with 12 pitchers. I'd prefer to have Seanez on my roster than Willie Harris to be honest. Seanez had an excellent year last year and he could be a very valuable additon.

 

Stern needs to be on the roster for 18 days. He will weather anyone likes it or not, and after keeping him on the roster for so long last year while he contributed nothing, it would be foolish to lose him over 18 games. If you carry 12 pitchers, and stern, that leaves you with one backup catcher, one backup infielder, and one more guy. I think the one more bench guy will contribute much more than whoever the 12th pitcher is, and I'd expect dinardo to be the odd man out.

[elsrbueno]

Am I still the only person who hates this trade?

 

Johnny's FP, RF, and ZR last year: .985 2.93 .874

Coco Crisp's 2004 numbers (as a CF) .981 2.32 .865

 

That looks like a pretty big decline in zone rating and range factor from Coco to Johnny. ORS-- you have other defensive stats that make me feel better about this?

 

Maybe I'm overrating Marte, but some scouts were comparing him to Manny Ramirez "without the attitude problems." Man it sucks giving him away.

 

It just seemed like Jeremy Reed was a better defensive player with some decent offensive upside who wasn't going to cost us Marte. Plus we trade Shoppach, who hit 25 homers last year in this deal, for Josh Bard who hits like crap.

 

Seems like we're getting ripped off here.

[Rdsxmbnt]

It just seemed like Jeremy Reed was a better defensive player with some decent offensive upside who wasn't going to cost us Marte. Plus we trade Shoppach, who hit 25 homers last year in this deal, for Josh Bard who hits like crap.

 

Seems like we're getting ripped off here.

 

From all indications Reed is not available and the M's arent going to take Arroyo or Clement for him, that makes no sense from their stand-point so if we want Reed then it would probaly cost Lester/Papelbon/ or Marte which the Red Sox arent gonna do. So if the only way to get a CF is by trading Marte then Theo better make sure its Crisp as hes hte best option out there.

[ksushi]

Reed is better defensively and Coco really is pretty bad in the field. Giving up Marte is tough, but the Sox have shut him down apparently because of arm problems recently. So, I take that to mean there may have been some substance to the rumors of him needing tommy john surgery but the jury is still out on that.

 

Comparing him to JD at this point is unfair. The Sox went in the direction they did because JD was going to be declining and expensive so they opted to go with whatever contingency plan they could throw together.

 

IMO, I would have persued Reed. He's a better player. He has all the offensive upside and much better defensive skills. While Coco is more proven at the plate, Reed seems to have much more room to grow. Ofcourse now it comes down to cost, I would rather give up a hitting prospect than a pitching prospect so if the price of Reed were Lester or Papelbon, I probably would have turned to Coco too. Coco is a hard working player so maybe he even improves defensively.

 

I'm not crazy about the deal, but its better than giving up MDC too. I don't think Mota for Riske is a wash, I think Riske is an all out upgrade over Mota. I think Bard is a downgrade over shoppach, but with limited role shoppach was looking to play with the Red Sox, does it really matter?

 

Yeah, Marte for Crisp is lopsided in their favor. There are, however, in every deal the Sox do, factors we don't know about. Marte could be close to needing the Wonder Surgery, or maybe the Sox have little confidence he will come out of this slump he has been in since late July. We don't know yet.

[riverside sluggers]

It just seemed like Jeremy Reed was a better defensive player with some decent offensive upside who wasn't going to cost us Marte.

 

Last I checked, Seattle had stepped up offers of asing for a deal of Papelbon or Lester for Reed & Gil Meche. Cant say that wouldve been the better deal at all.

 

And about his D, note he's moving to a much smaller park for half of season and check back with me if you can on how coco's stats have been each continuing season. At 26, his stats and experience will be on the uptick, unlike Damon whose defensive stats will take a hit playing in the vast center field of yankee stadium. His offense will also take a hit compared to the past couple of seasons.

 

Crisp can hit leadoff, has a better arm than what we're used to, steal 15-25 bases, 100+ Runs scored, .315+/- avg, .355+/- OBP, 20+/- HRs, 75+ RBIs

 

---

Besides that, as it stands right now this deal works out better for the Sox in the 2006 season

[ksushi]

From all indications Reed is not available and the M's arent going to take Arroyo or Clement for him, that makes no sense from their stand-point so if we want Reed then it would probaly cost Lester/Papelbon/ or Marte which the Red Sox arent gonna do. So if the only way to get a CF is by trading Marte then Theo better make sure its Crisp as hes hte best option out there.

 

Actually, the M's interest in Marte was very little. They specifically wanted Papelbon in any Reed deal. Crisp is not the best option we had. To be honest, I'm not so sure our best option didn't sign with New York just before Christmas. Granted I hate aging expensive players, I might take that statement back but thats the mood I am in right now. Coco Crisp is not the super hero coming in to save the day. People seem to think this guy is the answer to everything and the key to the division. While he is a good lead off hitter, he plays terrible defense. He gets bad jumps and has bad instincts in CF and has trouble breaking back on balls hit behind him. I think maybe Michaels would have been the way to go, all things considered. We could have kept marte, and given up only Mota. Michaels hit .300 in 105 games last year and he plays much better defense than Crisp does. I don't know, I just am not sold on Crisp being the best option available. For the record though, I am happy this trade got done. It took some coming around, and I really was attached to marte, still am, but we kept MDC, and its not like Crisp is 36, he's 26. Riske's 0.96 whip went a long way in making me happy also. When the deal officially gets announced, if Riske isn't in it, my whole opinion on this deal changes completely.

 

edit, just want to throw this in to add insult to injury, there was a reporter from cleveland on EEI last week talking on the Big O about Crisp the first time we thought he was coming to Boston and he said not to expect much of Crisps arm and that at times it would seem to be just as bad as Damon's.... so yeah... about that arm.

[Rdsxmbnt]

Crisp to Boston Done

 

http://www.cleveland.com/newslogs/plaindealer/index.ssf?/mtlogs/cleve_plaindealer/archives/2006_01.html

[ACL BoSox]

yay!

 

Finally, a centerfielder!

[ACL BoSox]

and we keep MDC