Done to a Crisp and Gonzalez Too

[ksushi]

Gagne likely isn't available. Just because he was hurt doesn't mean now the dodgers would deal him. They need him.

 

Zito is going to go with other young arms. Beane recycles his talent and then some and he will get the next Zito in a Zito deal along with his next great OBP guy who can hit and play D. Its what Beane does. We won't want to make a deal with him.

 

The more I read about this, the more I like it. I'm not on the verge of suicide anymore and my frown, while still slightly upside down, could turn into a smirk if I hear "marte" and "tommy john" any time soon in the same sentence.

 

While crisp still sucks at defense IMO, he could get better. The jury is out until june, but really, when you need to fill a CF hole getting a Zito or Gagne isn't on your to do list at all. We didn't have much to work with even if we had what it took to get those guys... which we don't.

[Beckett95]

miller has a great fastball and a dirty slider. I doubt the Guardians would let him go since hes been there best prospect the last couple of years.

[SchillingIsTheNatural]

Yeah I heard somewhere that kid can throw 100 MPH, is that true? If so begone with Marte for him!

 

According to one of my friends who saw him pitch...his velocity is down to around 95-96. He injured his arm and hasn't quite been the same but still effective. I guess his slider was something to be real scared of. He needs to develop another pitch I guess cause he mostly just uses the slider and fastball.

 

I guess he isn't in the class with Lester and Papelbon for a couple reasons: they have more pitches they can throw and there accuracy is better. None the less he has serious heat and good movement so he can become a hell of a pitcher. I always thought prospect pitchers are more valuable than position players so that would be a fair switch. Andy Marte is certainly in the top group of prospects while Adam Miller is probably int he second group....I would still put him in the top 10 for pitchers.

[Beckett95]

clevelands GMs angry over all the trade talk

 

CLEVELAND -- General manager Mark Shapiro flew to the Caribbean to get away for a few days. He came back to the United States on Sunday night to find word of his private trade talks spreading like wildfire.

"That was a heck of a time to go on vacation," Shapiro told reporters at Jacobs Field on Monday afternoon.

 

Indeed, because when Shapiro landed back in Cleveland, his voicemail and e-mail inboxes were flooded with interview requests.

 

Widespread reports have the Guardians sending popular outfielder Coco Crisp and two low-level prospects to the Red Sox for reliever Guillermo Mota and third-base project Andy Marte. Right-hander Manny Delcarmen is also rumored to be in the mix.

 

The club is also expected to make a second deal with the Phillies by sending a reliever -- possibly Arthur Rhodes, David Riske or Mota -- to Philadelphia for outfielder Jason Michaels.

 

Though several sources have confirmed the involved clubs have had serious discussions, neither deal is complete or 100 percent certain of happening. Physicals must be completed by any players involved.

 

So without a firm deal in place, Shapiro made it clear he would not be discussing the situation directly.

 

"When there's something to announce, I'll speak freely and openly about it," he said. "We're in constant conversations with other clubs about trades. Sometimes [the discussions] leak out, but most times they don't."

 

Given the private nature with which Shapiro prefers to do his business, his words reflected disappointment that wind of the trade conversations had been picked up nationally.

 

"It's not efficient to do business that way," Shapiro said, "and it's disrespectful to the players."

 

With that, Shapiro turned the floor over to manager Eric Wedge, who will be taking part in the team's Winter Caravan all week.

 

Wedge was equally evasive about the trade rumors, and he refused to speculate how the moves would affect the lineup.

 

Wedge did, however, refute the notion that the potential trades would seem to benefit the Guardians more in the long term than the short.

 

"Anything we do, we want it to be positive for this year and beyond," he said. "We're not doing anything that will have an ill effect on this year. We're not going to take any steps back."

 

For the Guardians, the trade with the Red Sox would address one of the organization's few areas of weakness in the farm system. The Tribe is without a legitimate third-base prospect, and Aaron Boone is only under contract through 2006, though the club does have a mutual option with Boone for 2007.

 

The 22-year-old Marte, who hit .275 with 20 home runs and 74 RBIs for Triple-A Richmond and saw 24 games of action with the Braves last season, has been listed by some publications as one of the top prospects in all of baseball, though he's not expected to be Major League ready for the opening of the 2006 season.

 

In Michaels, the Guardians would be getting a player who has never had an everyday job in the big leagues. Michaels, who shared time with Kenny Lofton in center field last year, hit .304 with four homers and 31 RBIs and a .399 on-base percentage in 105 games.

 

Mota went 2-2 with a 4.70 ERA and two saves for the Marlins last season and missed several weeks of the season with a sore right elbow and sore right shoulder.

 

Though the Guardians had reportedly been talking to Crisp, who is eligible for arbitration, about a multiyear contract, no deal has been made with him for the 2006 season.

 

As talk of the potential trades continues to filter around town and around the country, the Guardians' only official reaction is one of disappointment that their private trade talks had leaked.

 

"Out of respect to the players, you want to keep things close to the vest," Wedge said. "It's unfortunate that anything is out there."

 

[RedSoxRooter]

It would be great if the Guardians pulled the deal off the table because the Boston media got wind of a leak from the Red Sox.

[SchillingIsTheNatural]

miller has a great fastball and a dirty slider. I doubt the Guardians would let him go since hes been there best prospect the last couple of years.

 

Fine....then Jeremy Sowers.

 

You have to think that since Andy Marte is a top 5 prospect...thats probably equal to a pitching prospect in the range of top 15.

 

Not to mention Hanley Ramirez was our top prospect for a while....so who cares.

[Beckett95]

mlbtraderumors

Obviously there are a lot of conflicting reports and general confusion surrounding this whole Crisp/Marte/Michaels/Rhodes thing. I've read several iterations, sometimes with catchers involved.

 

I apologize for contributing so little information on this one, but rest assured I've been trying. Here's what little I know:

 

A Cleveland source tells me the Guardians are really keeping a lid on everything. He's a lot closer to the team than I, and he hasn't been able to dig up details.

 

I also spoke to a source familiar with the inner workings of the Phillies. He's scrambling for information as well. He told me that the Phils have been dangling Jason Michaels for a while now, and it's quite possible that all they could get for him is Arthur Rhodes. Such an acquisition will facilitate Ryan Madson's move to the rotation.

 

He also mentioned that the Phils have had interest in Kelly Shoppach for some time now, though Carlos Ruiz is every bit as good if he can manage to stay healthy.

 

what would the Guardians/red sox get back in return for shoppach??

[jsinger121]

with the media saying this deal will probably be announced sometime later in the week there is still time for it to fall apart.

[Beckett95]

good article about Covelli Crisp http://www.ecnnews.com/cgi-bin/15/etstory.pl?-sec-Sports+fn-crisp.123

 

GM's always tend to get that way thought whenever a trade is going to happen. Im hoping if anything happens, we can end up with crisp and riske for marte and mota. Trade Riske to the Reds for Austin Kearns, who could platoon with Trot in RF.

[ORS]

I generally don't like to jump in with thoughts/feelings about trades until they are completed. That said, I agree with those that think it would make more since to just go after Michaels since that is who Cleveland is pursuing to replace Crisp. I think Michaels+Marte is better to have than Crisp. The rest of the filler rumored to be in the deal is just a swap of spare parts that doesn't affect the end equation too much IMO.

[Beckett95]

get riske in the deal with crisp, then trade Arroyo (maybe include randy beam or abe alvarez) to the Reds for Austin Kearns and Joey Votto.

 

this leaves the team with...

 

LINEUP

1. Coco Crisp—CF—S

2. Mark Loretta—2B—R

3. David Ortiz—DH—L

4. Manny Ramirez—LF—R

5. Trot Nixon—RF—L

6. Mike Lowell—3B—R

7. Jason Varitek—C—S

8. Kevin Youkilis—1B—R

9. Alex Gonzalez—SS—R

 

BENCH

Josh Bard—C—S

Austin Kearns—OF—R

Alex Cora—IF—L

J.T. Snow—1B—L

Willie Harris—UTIL—L

 

BULLPEN

MRP—David Riske—R

MRP—Lenny Dinardo—L

MRP—Rudy Seanez—R

SU—Mike Timlin—R

SU—Julian Tavarez—R

CL—Keith Foulke—R

 

ROTATION

1. Josh Beckett—R

2. Curt Schilling—R

3. Tim Wakefield—R

4. Matt Clement—R

5. Jon Papelbon—R

 

TRADED

1. David Wells for prospects

2. Tony Graffanino for a lefty reliever

 

possible deals...

 

tony g to the rockies for Ray King

 

david wells to the padres for Chase Headley (3B, senior season at Tennesee had 63 BB and 23 K's) and Sean Thompson (lhp, casey fossum like talent)

[a700hitter]

with the media saying this deal will probably be announced sometime later in the week there is still time for it to fall apart.

If it falls apart, who will be the CF?

[jsinger121]

someone who will not require giving up marte

[a700hitter]

someone who will not require giving up marte

Who?

[jsinger121]

if the Guardians are getting jason michaels for arthur rhodes we surely could have gotten him ourselves. he might have the greatest range but he is a high obp guy.

[riverside sluggers]

if the Guardians are getting jason michaels for arthur rhodes we surely could have gotten him ourselves. he might have the greatest range but he is a high obp guy.

 

How many times do I have to say this? If its easy as Mota for Michaels straight up, the Red Sox & Theo would have gunned for that already.

 

The Phillies arent asking as muich from the Guardians then they would with the Red Sox. There's a difference in dealing with a team whose calm & collected, and another team who is in panic mode trying to fill holes before spring training.

 

The deal is set to be announced in the next several days most likely, so saying things like "I hope Cleveland pulls the deal off the table" or "I hope this falls apart" is just wishful thinking. I wager $20 if the Cleveland trade falls through, Theo then calls up the Phillies.

 

Theo- "Hi is Michaels available?"

 

Pat Gillick- "Sure throw in Lester with Mota, and you got yourself a deal"

[WildThing58]

So.......... when do we know if the deal is completely done?

[a700hitter]

if the Guardians are getting jason michaels for arthur rhodes we surely could have gotten him ourselves. he might have the greatest range but he is a high obp guy.

Jason Michaels would be your answer for 2006-07 until one of the farmhands is ready for CF? He has not shown that he can do the job on a full-time basis. He is not a starting CF for a contending team. I am thankful the the FO is not willing to sacrifice the possibility of a contending team in 2006 and 2007 to preserve a prospect that may never make an impact at the ML level.

[riverside sluggers]

So.......... when do we know if the deal is completely done?

 

well as i had said

 

The deal is set to be announced in the next several days most likely

[WildThing58]

OK sorry about that. Thanks

[jsinger121]

i hope mota fails his physical so the trade is squashed. i wouldn't be shocked if he failed his physical because he never even took one for us since he wasn't even in the states at the time of the trade.

[Cityofchampions33]

Yeah, I'd rather trade a reliever for Michales than get jipped like that, now that I have a much betetr perspective on the trade.

[gosox613]

why...you hope the sox have no CF????

edit: uh michaels, over crisp; no thanks

[jsinger121]

no i dont to give up marte. im sorry but i don't think he is worth giving up for crisp

[riverside sluggers]

Yeah, I'd rather trade a reliever for Michales than get jipped like that, now that I have a much betetr perspective on the trade.

 

Repeat post: How many times do I have to say this? If its easy as Mota for Michaels straight up, the Red Sox & Theo would have gunned for that already.

 

The Phillies arent asking as muich from the Guardians then they would with the Red Sox. There's a difference in dealing with a team whose calm & collected, and another team who is in panic mode trying to fill holes before spring training.

[a700hitter]

i hope mota fails his physical so the trade is squashed. i wouldn't be shocked if he failed his physical because he never even took one for us since he wasn't even in the states at the time of the trade.

So, to save a minor league prospect who has no chance of making an impact before 2007 or 08, you would be willing to field a team without a bona fide full-time ML CF for a couple of years and to have a lame armed guy in the bullpen with no trade value. Does anyone else see this as extreme?

[jsinger121]

if lowell shits the bed the sox are in serious trouble. marte needs about 3 months of minor league seasoning in triple A before being ready. the red sox have no one behind lowell who i would even consider a viable option. youkilis is not the answer longterm there either.

[a700hitter]

if lowell shits the bed the sox are in serious trouble. marte needs about 3 months of minor league seasoning in triple A before being ready. the red sox have no one behind lowell who i would even consider a viable option. youkilis is not the answer longterm there either.

The training staff will just have to plug his ass. If he still can't play, Graffinino could play there for the remainder of the year,

[jsinger121]

graffanino might not make this team if they end up acquiring alex gonzalez. he will likely be either traded(unlikely) or let go.

[a700hitter]

graffanino might not make this team if they end up acquiring alex gonzalez. he will likely be either traded(unlikely) or let go.

Not if management thinks ahead like you and realizes that they have no 3B if Lowell shits the bed.