Theo Epstein Resigns as GM (merged threads)

[riverside sluggers]

Cano and Wang will sure help out the Yankees in the long run, as well as Duncan who will probably make his debut sometime in 2006.

 

New York just needs to maintain their farm, and stray less from the big long contracts that have hurt them in the recent years

[SchillingIsTheNatural]

Cano and Wang will sure help out the Yankees in the long run, as well as Duncan who will probably make his debut sometime in 2006.

 

New York just needs to maintain their farm, and stray less from the big long contracts that have hurt them in the recent years

 

Same can be said for the Red Sox...in the race for the top farm system we are ahead of them and we need to continue that. In the end I want to see half the Red Sox team composed of farm talent and the rest built on smart proper signings..not having to overpay and paying close attention to hard working baseball players....get away from the big name signings. I dont care what a guy has done in the past...i want guys who, if put into the Red Sox organization, will flurish. Kinda like David Ortiz although that doesn't happen all the time.

[He Hate Me]

nods, we've at least moved away from the 5+ year contracts. If Cashman were left up to his own schemes, he would work with Gene Michael (the architect of the farm system that spawned jeter, Mo, etc.) and we would have a solid small-ball team. Unfortunately, we got idiots in Tampa Bay who sips wine with Georgie and come up with brilliant decisions like lowballing Petite, and passing on Vlad for Sheff.

 

I think if both ownerships left Theo and Cashman alone, we as fans would be much more happy and wouldn't wind up with contracts or acquisitions that don't make sense.

[riverside sluggers]

Red Sox GM Theo Epstein and president Larry Lucchino indicated in a joint statement that it's unlikely anything would be decided today. Epstein's contract expires on Oct. 31 and it looks like it could go down to the wire on whether a new deal is agreed to. "We had a meeting over lunch today to continue our discussions and to conduct other business as well," the statement read. "We made progress, but we anticipate no further statement until there is something to announce. We are hopeful that these discussions will work out for the best. In the meantime, we continue 'business as usual.'"

 

so more waiting for us to hear if Theo will be back...

[26 to 6]

I love how Yankee fans nonchalantly say, "you guys seem to forget that you have the 2nd highest payroll", without any mention of the magnitude of the difference between the two. The Yankees spent $80+M more than the Red Sox. Twenty, yes 20, teams spent less than the difference (including the WS Champ White Sox and runner-up Astros).

 

 

 

I really fail to see how this is such a "WOW" job by Cashman, but Theo gets no credit for the job he did in ARod talks. He got ARod to agree to more deferments and a salary cut in exchange for more marketing rights and eligibility to be a FA after 2005. If the union doesn't intercede, the deal was done.

 

IMO, neither of these guys deserves much credit for ARod because Texas was desperate to get rid of his contract and was accepting pennies on the dollar.

 

 

Enough with the innocent victim routine. Your name (26 to 6) and the Clemens quote in your sig ("It was a blessing" ~ about leaving Boston) are direct insults to Sox fans, so just by being here you are being confrontational.

You guys are ridiculous, you act is if because there is a difference in our payroll that you're still free and clear. You have the second highest payroll in the game, deny it all you want my friend, but its a fact. And it could easily be stated that you guys "won your title" like you used to say to all of us. Fact of the matter is, you're hypocrites. A big payroll is a big payroll whether its 200mil or 150mil.

...regardless, though, if you have the resources then use them, and that its what both teams do.

 

The ARod deal...I think it is a wow because he got it done in a WEEK, where it took Theo months to get done what he got done (which wasnt enough). Say all you want, but ask any of the experts and they will tell you that that was a job well done by Cashman.

 

And about the sig and username, about half of you guys have anti-yankee sigs. And I didnt make the username to be confrontational, i made it because when I was looking around the site before I joined I noticed how guys here were towards Yankee fans because of last year, so its just sort of a way to stand up for myself and Yankee fans alike to let you guys know that regardless of last year, we still have a lot on you.

 

This all goes back to money. Do you have any idea how awesome my baseball teams are in MVP 2005 for xbox. They are so good cause I don't have a budget. If I was the GM of the Yankees I could do almost anything I wanted and I certainly wouldn't have invested in old men like Randy Johnson, Tony Womack, Tino Martinez, Ruben Sierra, Gary Sheffield....then gone out and traded for a self centered "me first" attitude Alex Rodriguez. Are you aware a majority of the NY Yankees do not like him. They have developed a horrible club house where there top starting pitcher can't stand there top catcher. Instead of the Yankees siding with the guy who has been on the team durring there World Series victories...they side with Johnson...PUKE!

 

...has Brian Cashman made some good moves?? Sure...they only make about 50 transactions a season...how many starting pitchers and relievers did he have to go through to get it right this season??? Eventually...odds are...he will get one right...but WOW what a mess it makes

 

X-Box bro...its a video game. None of the stuff you did in that game could you do in reality (i.e trading for whoever you traded for)....and by the way, why do you play with no budgets but you come and criticize the Yankees for having an unlimited budget??

 

...the reason for so many moves this year was INJURY...what would you like us to do, put injured guys out on the field. We're ientitled to make moves too ya know. And its not like we went out and picked up Barry Zito and Johan Santana for the rotation, we traded for SHAWN CHACON, and promoted AARON SMALL.

 

Also, where did you read that the Yankees have sided with johnson? Just because he has a personal catcher doesnt mean they've sided with him.

 

the reason why the yankees had won those 4 world series from 96 to 2000 was because they had a great farm system producing up and coming solid ballplayers, along with a healthy rotation. as time went on the yankees tossed out their prospects like candy for aging all star players who are on the wrong side of 30.

but those werent all Cashman deciscions. All that started after we lost in 2001 and George went out and got Giambi.

 

anyways... whatever you say doesnt defend how a $200 million team was beaten up and tired by the ALDS. the big players with big contracts they have recently signed didnt live up to anything in the playoffs or even get that far (Johnson, Arod, Wright, Pavano). Those 4 players combined in 2005 had made $58 million.

you act like because of the salaries, that they are not human. This was a rough season, having a payroll that big doesnt guarantee us a Championship. I find it odd that you guys, with the second largest payroll in baseball (argue it all you want, it is what it is) can come on here and criticize us for not making it, but yet you guys got swept in the ALDS.

[26 to 6]

so more waiting for us to hear if Theo will be back...

I cant wait until all of this GM stuff is settled so we can get this offseason underway

[ORS]

You guys are ridiculous, you act is if because there is a difference in our payroll that you're still free and clear. You have the second highest payroll in the game, deny it all you want my friend, but its a fact. And it could easily be stated that you guys "won your title" like you used to say to all of us. Fact of the matter is, you're hypocrites. A big payroll is a big payroll whether its 200mil or 150mil.

...regardless, though, if you have the resources then use them, and that its what both teams do.

I never made the claim that it makes us free and clear from being considered a big market team, and I don't know where you learned how to read, but nobody here has suggested that we don't have the 2nd highest payroll. If it makes you feel better about the Yankee's opulence to say, "Well, the Red Sox spend the 2nd most", then go ahead and keep deluding yourself, because the Yankees are in a league by themselves when it comes to spending.

 

The ARod deal...I think it is a wow because he got it done in a WEEK, where it took Theo months to get done what he got done (which wasnt enough). Say all you want, but ask any of the experts and they will tell you that that was a job well done by Cashman.

And do you know what those months amount to? You probably don't, but I'll tell you anyway. Groundwork. Once the deal fell through it's pretty easy to step in a say, "What was the deal, and how do we fit in?". It happens in business everyday.

 

And I didnt make the username to be confrontational...... to let you guys know that regardless of last year, we still have a lot on you.

I don't think you could have contradicted yourself any more blatantly. I don't care how you try to justify it, when you throw the Yankee's past success in our faces, you are being confrontational.

[26 to 6]

I don't think you could have contradicted yourself any more blatantly. I don't care how you try to justify it, when you throw the Yankee's past success in our faces, you are being confrontational.

So what is it called when you guys throw your success/our failure in 2004 in our face?

[26 to 6]

And do you know what those months amount to? You probably don't, but I'll tell you anyway. Groundwork. Once the deal fell through it's pretty easy to step in a say, "What was the deal, and how do we fit in?". It happens in business everyday.

and so I guess thats sort of the case with the Schilling deal for you guys, huh?

 

If you cant give Cash credit for ARod then dont give Theo credit for Schilling, because even though we didnt spend months on it, we did spend some time working on getting him.

[ORS]

So what is it called when you guys throw your success/our failure in 2004 in our face?

The exact same thing, being confrontational. I don't take issue with people being confrontational. I take issue when someone is, but then acts like an innocent victim when the response comes. You made your bed, so lay down in it.

[ORS]

and so I guess thats sort of the case with the Schilling deal for you guys, huh?

 

If you cant give Cash credit for ARod then dont give Theo credit for Schilling, because even though we didnt spend months on it, we did spend some time working on getting him.

I have never made a comment on the Schilling deal.

[26 to 6]

Not you, but Red Sox fans in general.

[26 to 6]

Please, saying that you cant deny that the A-Rod deal was a good deal, though some of you will is not playing a "victim routine", its making a statement. You most certainly have a problem with people being "confrontational" (though, regardless of my username, not my intention), only when I point out how Boston fans act the same way do you change the tune.

[ORS]

If forced to guess, I'd say it is because Schilling originally said he only wanted to be traded to NY in the 2003 offseason, whereas ARod just wanted to go to a contender. Therefore, it took a little more work to get Curt to accept a trade to Boston.

 

Personally, I'm not one who is generally proned to giving a lot of credit to GM's in trades like that. Yes, it takes some talent to get the deal done, but the opportunity essentially fell into their lap. I prefer to grade GMs on their ability to acquire someone who was previously undervalued. Epstein and Cashman have both shown an ability to do this; therefore, both are quality GMs in my book. Trying to compare the two is assinine in my book, as they operate under different contraints/budgets.

[26 to 6]

=One red SeatEpstein and Cashman have both shown an ability to do this; therefore, both are quality GMs in my book. Trying to compare the two is assinine in my book, as they operate under different contraints/budgets.

 

Fair enough.

 

You guys who have read this thread know I have nothing but respect for Theo, as he has done a remarkable job. Lets leave it at that.

[ORS]

Please, saying that you cant deny that the A-Rod deal was a good deal, though some of you will is not playing a "victim routine", its making a statement. You most certainly have a problem with people being "confrontational" (though, regardless of my username, not my intention), only when I point out how Boston fans act the same way do you change the tune.

Every time you add little remarks like, "though some of you will", or, "I know some of you will jump on me for this", you are in essence acknowleding that your idea will be challenged, but that the challenge is unwarranted. Hence the "victim routine" comment.

[26 to 6]

I am acknowldeging that the comment would be challenged, because I know it will because there are some things Red Sox fans wont admit about the Yankees and vice versa of coarse. The reason isnt to express that I feel that I'm going to be challanged.

Its hard to explain, but I catch your point.

[example1]

http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/articles/2005/10/28/epstein_sox_are_closing_in_on_new_deal/

 

Sounds positive. C'mon Theo!!!

[SchillingIsTheNatural]

X-Box bro...its a video game. None of the stuff you did in that game could you do in reality (i.e trading for whoever you traded for)....and by the way, why do you play with no budgets but you come and criticize the Yankees for having an unlimited budget??

 

Actually I don't play with "no budget." In fact I don't even have an X-Box haha. I was just making a point that having almost unlimited resources makes your job very easy.....Cashman is not a good GM because of the moves he makes....he is a good GM cause he is one of the very few who can put up with that stupid pathetic old man running the sinking ship loaded with other old men. Its amazing George wastes so much money without completely thinking it through...but hey as he always says..."its all for the great fans of NY"

 

I like Theo Epstein because he understands the city of Boston. The Boy Wonder label makes him seem like a prodigy. He just has that trust aura around him but the fact is Theo makes quite a few dumb moves as well. Look back and really think about some of the stuff he did....not all great moves...however, he won a World Series...for that I am forever happy and would like to see him stay until he becomes President of the United States. If we want to argue about Cashman vs. Epstein I'm taking Epstein everyday of the week unless I'm the Yanks cause I don't see Epstein becoming George's bitch. If we are taking one GM in the whole league I'm taking Billy Beane (best GM in the league as far as I'm concerned).

[He Hate Me]

Actually I don't play with "no budget." In fact I don't even have an X-Box haha. I was just making a point that having almost unlimited resources makes your job very easy.....Cashman is not a good GM because of the moves he makes....he is a good GM cause he is one of the very few who can put up with that stupid pathetic old man running the sinking ship loaded with other old men. Its amazing George wastes so much money without completely thinking it through...but hey as he always says..."its all for the great fans of NY"

 

I like Theo Epstein because he understands the city of Boston. The Boy Wonder label makes him seem like a prodigy. He just has that trust aura around him but the fact is Theo makes quite a few dumb moves as well. Look back and really think about some of the stuff he did....not all great moves...however, he won a World Series...for that I am forever happy and would like to see him stay until he becomes President of the United States. If we want to argue about Cashman vs. Epstein I'm taking Epstein everyday of the week unless I'm the Yanks cause I don't see Epstein becoming George's bitch. If we are taking one GM in the whole league I'm taking Billy Beane (best GM in the league as far as I'm concerned).

 

I agree with your post. except the part about Cashman being George's bitch. I've worked for demanding bosses before, and when they would yell at me, I'd just brush it off my shoulders. Doesn't make anyone a bitch to take s*** as long as it pays the bills for those you love and yourself.

[SchillingIsTheNatural]

I agree with your post. except the part about Cashman being George's bitch. I've worked for demanding bosses before, and when they would yell at me, I'd just brush it off my shoulders. Doesn't make anyone a bitch to take s*** as long as it pays the bills for those you love and yourself.

 

Ok I'll concede to that, you are right. Anyone in our shoes would certainly deal with what Cashman does for the money. Hell I'd do a lot more for a million a year.

[He Hate Me]

Ok I'll concede to that, you are right. Anyone in our shoes would certainly deal with what Cashman does for the money. Hell I'd do a lot more for a million a year.

 

I'm afraid to ask.

[SchillingIsTheNatural]

I'm afraid to ask.

 

I'm not A-Rod or Jeter so keep the sick ideas to a gay Yankee forum...I'm sure there are plenty out there.

[riverside sluggers]

still having us wait...

 

GM wait continues

By Steve Silva, Boston.com Staff

It looks like we'll know Theo's fate on Monday.

 

Red Sox officials have told The Boston Globe that there will not be an announcement regarding Theo Epstein and the Red Sox general manager situation today, or over the weekend. The team is expected to make an announcement on Monday. There was no indication if another meeting took place today between Epstein and Red Sox CEO Larry Lucchino.

 

"We're not expecting any news today," Red Sox spokesman Glenn Geffner said according to the Associated Press. "I wouldn't imagine we'll have an announcement over the weekend." The Red Sox prefer not to announce deals such as this on weekends, especially with the Patriots playing the Bills in Foxborough Sunday night and linebacker Tedy Bruschi expected to make an emotional return to action following a stroke in February.

 

The Globe's Gordon Edes wrote today that Epstein and Lucchino met multiple times yesterday, and by last night there was every indication an agreement will be reached that will keep Epstein as GM for the next three years. According to Edes, Epstein and the Sox were believed to be only $300,000 apart earlier in the week. On Tuesday, Lucchino offered Epstein $1.2 million per year for three years, upping the club's initial offer of $850,000 per season. Epstein, whose contract expires Monday, is believed to have made $350,000 this season and desires a bump to $1.5 million per year. That would position him among the league's most well-compensated general managers.

[MANNYHOF24]

Theo needs to stay, in the three years he has been here, he was brought us a W.S. Title 3 striaght trips to the playoffs and a farm system full of talent, he is simply a genious that should be paid just as much as Cashmen at 2Mil per year

[riverside sluggers]

now this official :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

 

Epstein, Red Sox agree on a three-year contract

By Chris Snow and Gordon Edes, Globe Staff | October 31, 2005

 

Theo Epstein's contract expires tonight at midnight, but the 31-year-old general manager won't be looking for a new place to work for at least three more seasons. Epstein and the Red Sox have agreed to an extension of that length, keeping the Brookline native in place as the team's GM through the 2008 season, according to multiple major league sources. No news conference was scheduled as of last night, but the deal is expected to be announced either today or tomorrow at Fenway Park. It is believed that Epstein, who made $350,000 last season, ranking him near the bottom of baseball's GM pay scale, will have the chance to make close to what he was seeking ($1.5 million per year). That would position him among baseball's best-compensated general managers.

 

When the most recent round of negotiations began, Epstein received an initial offer of about $850,000 per year and a second offer of $1.2 million per year, both of which he rejected. Atlanta GM John Schuerholz, whose teams have won 14 consecutive division titles, makes $1.6 million per year. Brian Cashman recently accepted a three-year extension for close to $6 million to remain general manager of the Yankees. Tigers GM Dave Dombrowski earns a reported $2 million per year, but he also serves as club president. Oakland GM Billy Beane makes a reported $1 million-plus, though his compensation package includes an ownership stake in the club. Beane was offered $12.5 million over five seasons by the Sox before they hired Epstein, and that offer bolstered Epstein's resolve during negotiations.

 

With Epstein's deal done, and assistant GM Josh Byrnes now in Arizona as the Diamondbacks GM, the Sox are likely to undergo some reorganization within the baseball operations department. Jed Hoyer, the 31-year-old assistant to the general manager, is expected to assume Byrnes's role, though it wasn't clear last night when Hoyer's promotion would be announced.

 

Byrnes hasn't yet asked permission of the Sox to interview anyone in the organization, but he could be interested in bringing 29-year-old Peter Woodfork, a Swampscott native, to Arizona as assistant GM. Woodfork, the Sox' director of baseball operations and assistant director of player development, recently interviewed with the Texas Rangers to become GM Jon Daniels's assistant. Daniels chose to hire the only other candidate he interviewed, 33-year-old Thad Levine, formerly the Rockies' senior director of baseball operations. Woodfork, if he stays, might be in line for a promotion, as could Ben Cherington, Boston's director of player development.

 

Meanwhile, the Los Angeles Angels appear to be the likeliest partner if/when the Sox explore dealing unhappy slugger Manny Ramirez, who again has asked out of Boston. Ramirez representative Geno Mato told Sox owner John W. Henry Friday that Ramirez wants to be dealt and will not report to spring training if he remains a member of the Red Sox. The Sox' foremost need is pitching, and any conversation with the Angels is expected to begin with the Sox asking about 22-year-old Ervin Santana, the righthander who went 12-8 with a 4.65 ERA as a rookie. Los Angeles is looking to unload salary, specifically 40-year-old center fielder Steve Finley ($7 million in 2006) and 31-year-old Darin Erstad ($8.5 million).

 

The Sox aren't likely to touch Finley, but they might be willing to absorb Erstad's salary, given that he could play first base or center field. Ramirez, during an August visit to play the Angels, confided in a veteran teammate how much he liked Anaheim. Ramirez remarked that no one bothered him during a visit to a local mall. The teammate explained the lack of fan pestering by telling Ramirez that if he played in Southern California he might be making $20 million a year, but his next-door neighbor would be making $25 million.

 

thank god theo is here to stay for 3 more seasons.

 

personally Id say yes very much so if Sox were able to get Ervin Santana, impressed by his debut season in the bigs. But other than that... If Sox were to get Finley it would just be as a backup outfielder, would be 41 in 2006 and power numbers have recently taken a big hit. At first base Darin Erstad would actually be a step down from Millar offensively, though he has just made 29 errors in the field from 97 - 05

[BoSox84]

Glad this is over, now we can focus on singing some key guys.

[User Name]

Good, Theo's back, but we need to focus on keeping Manny, and if not, getting key players, and even if we do, get key players anyway.

[RedSoxRooter]

Word is that Theo just quit and is cleaning out his desk. According to WEEI.

[empirestrikesback26]

Theo resigned.