drewski6

This aint a scene, its a goddamn arms race. You dont remember when the sox and yanks would match move for move? Well sub out red sox, sub in blue jays. Or we can get serious again and have a 3 teams arms race. It will at least be a a 2 team scramble for talent, we can make it a 3 team scramble for talent or let the gap between us and the best teams widen. The Jays and Yanks are building a big rivalry and the yanks went home bitter with vlad rubbing it in all the way. You dont think they want revenge? You think the yanks are going to let the jays get cease and bring back bo (even if its a neutral move) without a counter? And the jays beat the yanks , so really its on the yanks to improve (granted they should have G.cole coming back). I can see the yankees jumpin in on schwarber or bellinger or trading for someone. And the Phils are like no so fast. And the Mets are like hey, forget about us? And then a team with an owner that wants to win more than ours does jumps in and makes a splash. And suddenly we're begging "at least get polanco, everyone else is gone" and the boot lickers are rejoicing that henry can get another yacht. And people are telling us that the dodgers are ruining baseball, but also that spending doesnt equate to success (reconcile those 2, cuz I cant). Also, when there are only 4 or 5 big time free agents, and one comes off the board, teams start scrambling. If the Jays retain Bo, its one less bat available and I expect things to heat up. I think things are going to heat up and theres more teams looking for talent than there is talent. Someone is coming away disappointed.

I think the blue jays are going to get bichette or tucker, which is going to push the yankees to make a splash, the phils are going to want someone, even small market teams may take one of the 4 or 5 (only) big FA bats away. Its not gonig to be easy to get one. We should try to get one (at least) but cant make em sign. And if we come away wiht no Bregman, Alonso, Schwarber, bichette, and on top of that we trade duran for a backup and a pitching prospect..... Well, I asked the people (in other threads) that dont seem to be really concerned about adding a bat but still want to trade Duran for pitching prospects (and wont trade cedanne for anybody nad have no interest in Marte)...Ive asked these people what they expect or what they want with that lineup that really doesnt have any hitters who were top 50 last year ....And they responded Casas and Yoshida and fans are greedy to want more than that and really we should be thankful for ownership.

I agree with you 100%. I dont think this trade happens. But the people jumping on it, who have also poo-poo'd the need for Marte and said that Hamilton should start as strong side platoon and Casas and Yoshida are going to more than makeup for the losses of Duran, Devers ,and Bregman And Im just rolling my eyes at the boot licking and lack of desire to have a better offense. There are three types of teams: 1. Teams that have a top 3 offense 2. Teams trying to improve their offense 3. Non-serious teams

The conversation that I joined was a few people envisioning an infield of Casas, Vientos, Mayer, Story And I agree with UtahSox that if thats 2026 (along with abreu, anthony, cedanne, yoshida) than 2026 is a skip.

Okay replace would with should lol A C+ baseball team that are has all minimum wage players does not usually win a playoff series against an A- team paid accordingly even if the WAR for each dollar spent is better for the C+ team. Most sucessful teams have had great players.

Ketel Marte doesnt need to resurge. He can even surge less than he surged last year and still be extremely helpful to our ballclup. But I agree with you.

THere are people advocating for this trade who believe: Hamilton should be a strong side platoon Casas and Yoshida will replace Bregman and Devers production Homeruns dont matter We should all be thankful for John Henry and he should be cheap because boots taste delicious We're in silly land. Non serious. Me? I see a team that keeps subtracting from their offense (really since Betts) and I just dont think its wise to keep subtracting from the offense without adding. So Im with you. If you wanna trade Duran for Vientos and Tong, I dont, but if someone knows something I dont and Tong is actually ELITE and they make the trade....You just have to go add bats. Not trade Duran and be happy with an offense that revolves around guys who get hurt every year and arent really 1-4 hitters even when healthy.

Right, but not as much trouble as you'd be in if he would have been one of your 2 best hitters but you flipped him and now you just have Anthony and 0 other hitters in the top 60 in baseball.

My point is that if we make the trade (duran for vientos and tong, and pencil vientos into a spot as was mentioned) Then we look like this Anthony Yoshida Abreu Vientos Story Casas Mayer Nav Cedanne And Vientos struggled hard last year, and I dont think casas stays healthy or is getting healthy or is someone we should count on (but I do agree dont give him away and his options provide value). And Story isnt particularly healthy, and I could very much see this being a bottom 10 offense.

I agree that Ragans and Duran are hard to project and value is more than just production too, which only adds another complication.

Vientos at 3b, Mayer at 2b, and Casas (who becomes a waiver claim when he gets hurt and hes likely to again, because hes not athletic) , and no Duran. SIGN ME UP (said nobody except the condescending boot licking noodle bat lovers)

Yup lets trade one of our 2 best hitters for our third best pitching prospect, genius.

It may be rare to have your best years after age 31, but dont let people move the conversation on you. Thats not the debate. Marte has 2 top 5 MVP finishes, and a third year (last year) where he got votes (but was not in the top 5). Over the last 3 years, he has the HIGHEST OPS among 2b (all of them), and even if a little decline, he's still very much a weapon and still very much one of the best hitting second baseman and hes adequate with the glove. Simply put, he doesnt have to have a career year for him to help us. Some people just look at WAR, age and salary and just want youngest/cheapest. But this overlooks the fact that you have a finite number of roster spaces and at-bats. You always pay a premium for stars, and of course, having the best players is highly correlated to winning. Otherwise, theyd be detriments. You should be willing to pay more to go from a 30 value guy to a 40 value guy than to go from a 5 value guy to a 15 value guy, because stars win. Heres my point: Lets say someone is worth 40m and is signed to a contract that pays them 30m for the next 3 years. Thats 10 excess value / year x 3 years = 30 excess value. Lets say that dude is 32 , so could even regress a bit. But hes still awesome at present.. Yes, this dude and his 30 excess value is worth more than 5 guys who are all 20m in value paid 10m over lets say 5 years. While those guys if you add them up give you more value for each buck spent (and are younger) that excess value is nerfed because its spread out. ANother words, if you have an 8 WAR superstar signed for 3 more years and trade him for 2 separate players with 4 WAR each (signed for 3 more years), you are not better off. If you flip him with 2 separate dudes who are 3 war players and signed for 4 years each, sure you are getting more WAR but you are spreading it out among the more players, more years and thus diluting it. Its too simplistic to just look at age and WAR and salary. Younger and cheaper isnt always better. More WAR for the buck isnt always better either. Any GM would rather have a 40m value guy making 30m than a 15m value guy making 1m. Because one is a superstar and elite talent and will carry you further, especially with roster size constraints. You dont trade a 40 HR bat for 5 10 HR bats and act like you gained 10 HRs. Thats not how it works, obviously.

Not bad but personally, Id rather just pay the extra 5m, and keep abreu and yoshida in lieu of Bader. Partly because injuries are so pervasive these days, and even if there isnt a spot for Yoshida right now, theres a good chance that in Aug/Sept we're in a dog fight for a playoff spot and we have a few injuries , some to our better hitters and Yoshida is hitting like 4 of 5 and doing decent.

I like this guy

Oh for sure.

Good for you, at 41 Im also aging in reverse. Drinking less and working out more.

Tolle and Early are hard to part with , for sure. I can see it falling apart because Marte is unique/special, so they prob feel justified insisting on one of our top 2 pitching prospects vs one of our top 5 pitching prospects. I can also see the Sox holding on to the pitchers for the reasons you mention. One thing Im not sure, is how close Arizona sees themself. If they are looking to get back to playoffs immediately, they could have interest in somone like Sandoval/Cutter K , especially if we eat money. Of course would have to include Harrison or something. But yeah, I can see it falling apart.

And in 2023? In 2023, Valdez was supposed to win 2b from Christian Arroyo. Arroyo got hurt for a month or 2 in the early season, leaving the position open for Valdez. Sox traded for (or claimed) Reyes for depth. Adding a waiver wire add in Reyes should have been of no concern to EV. Also, around that time, Kike went to absolute crap with the failed SS experiment, and Sox really had no middle infielders. So should have been wide open for EV to claim one of the vacant MI roles like he was expected to. But despite our middle infield going from from Arroyo and Kike to nobody, EV still couldnt grab a spot. The Sox soon after claimed Yu Chang, and EV found himself sitting most nights in favor of 0 offense Chang and AAAA Reyes. Then Arroyo came back from injury forcing the sox to make a move, so Valdez was sent packing to AAA as the sox elected to keep Reyes, Chang, Arroyo, and Kike as their MI rotation. Sox and fans wanted 23/24 yr old Valdez to grab a spot and not look back and gave him ample opportunity, but he couldnt out play Reyes (or even Chang) and was thus sent back to Worcester upon Arroyos return until Sept 1 roster expansion. None of these jokers were with the team by the end of 2024. Understood they tried again with Valdez at various points in 2024, but the luster was gone and it was more of a Hamilton situation where hes getting called up and hanging around due to lack of other options and maybe he even filled in for a spell, but nobody actually considered him a starter or on a path to eventually become a starter. That hope died in 2023 when he Valdez couldnt win a job against either pablo reyes or yu chang. And thus the complimentary piece in the deal (Abreu) became the headliner. And the dude who we thought was the headliner (Valdez) became.....honestly Im not even sure? He in Japan?

I dont think Id put Duran in the top 3 of players that RS fans seem to overrate but sure prob overrate him compared to non RS fans, sure.

Rats

Im not sure I want more than 70/80 PA's from Casas.

And then he lost his spot to pablo reyes (womp womp)

You think theyll get Tucker?

Correct, if this is how its going to look, and its a real possibility - then you simply cannot swap out Duran for Rafaella. Even if you swap Marte for Bregman.