moonslav59

Huh? I'm all for trading one or two.

Top xFIP FA SP'ers in 2025 79 Valdez (18th) 86 Cease (22nd) 88 R Suarez (26th) 92 M Kelly & Bassitt (35th) Possible Trade options: 72 Nate (7th) 1st in ERA- 74 Sale (9th) 11th in ERA- 75 S Gray (12th) 87 Ryan & Bubic (23rd) Bubic was 8th in ERA-/Ryan 36th 88 Lodolo & E Cabrera (27th) Lodolo 25th in ERA-/ECab 37th 91 Gore (34th) 93 Peralta (39th) 14th in ERA-

I'm not really impressed by the 2026 FA SP'er class. I realize signing one means we don't have to trade major pieces or prospects to get a solid #2 SP'er, but most are older and or coming off frequent injuries or an off year or two. I like Lodolo & Ryan more than Cease, King, Valdez, Gallen and other FAs. I suggest we use the budget for Offense and trade capital for a #2 SP.

It is stunning that the last large and long deal for a FA was Price. Thatw as for the 2016 season- TEN YEARS AGO! The Story and Yoshida deals were not very large nor very long. JD was not either. The Sale and Devers extensions were significant, but that's not adding a player. When you look at the complete history of the Sox under JH, you'll see it's not really his MO. He does allow some major signings, but rarely like the Price one. Manny was signed before JH and was eventually traded. The two long extensions given out saw those players traded, too, with Devers dealt a little over 1 year into the time his extension kicked in. Carl Crawford was the next highest signing (2011) and he was traded away, too. Lackey was a pretty big signing, adjusting for inflation, and I guess 5 years can be counted as "long," but he was dealt away, too. Pablito & HRam's signings combined for a big splash but neither was a mega deal, and again, neither lasted their whole deals. This really is not anything new with JH. His MO is more about having GMs that make mega deals for top SP'ers and extending them. Pedro, Schilling, Beckett, Sale, Porcello and finally Crochet. He signs significant FA, like Damon, Mueller, Beltre, JD, Story and others but rarely very large AND very large. Most are not mega large (like Bregman) or mega long (like Price & CC.) I hope that changes, but maybe Alonso will go for a 5 year deal, but it will likely be mega "large."

I should not have mentioned him. Yes, he was an injured SP'er signing bit not over 30, which was what my list was about. My bad. I just want to add a pitcher that is neither old nor recently injured. I disliked the Gio signing, but pointed out that at least he was reliable, and look where that one got us! LOL.

Sandoval was not on my list. I mentioned him and his age as an afterthought apart from the list. I do not see his success or failure as part of the trend, since he was not over 30, but he does count in the trend of signing oft-injured or recently injured signings.

I'm not even a paying member of BTV, so I do not have access to the values of all players. I make suggestions all the time without using BTV, Sometimes others point out the BTV over/underpay. I knew you'd deliver a non answer. We are all fully aware that our suggestions have a teenie tiny chance of ever happening, but we like to get specific with our suggestions instead of just overgeneralized criticism of others' idea or actual Sox moves made. I have come out and said guys like Skenes, Greene, Brown and others are not available, unless a gross overpay is offered. I'm not sure how you take this to mean we can or will trade for one. I'm saying we won't. Deals like Crochet come along, every so often. We all knew he was available, so that makes that type of deal more predictable, and we saw plenty of predictions/suggestions (however you want to view them) and I don't think anyone came close to the actual haul needed to get him. I think most felt it was a lot to give, but we knew it would take a lot. Many felt we overpaid. Some who felt that (like me) thought it was still worth it. My own opinion was that it risked being a gross overpay, if we did not extend him at a reasonable cost. I still think that. We kinda wasted his first year with us by not going all in. Had we not extended him, we'd have a one year window with him, and a gloomy outlook for 2027 and beyond with a team without Teel and the others we gave the CWS. We all have differing views on value and trades made or suggested. Yous eem to indicate you don't care for much of what we discuss or suggest, but then seem to get upset when we do.

Well, it does sound contradictory to say he was an overpay but worth it, but that is my position. Overpays are needed, at times.

Agreed. I'm not sure anyone can feel confident enough to pencil in anyone to the 2 or 3 slot, let alone the 4-5 slots. Having so many choices improves the odds we end up with 5 decent SP'ers, but there are a few issues with that. Here are but a few: 1. We likely need better than "decnet" to advance farther than we did in 2025, and we are down our 2nd best SP'er in GIO before we even get started in 2026. 2. We may end up finding a better than decent 5, but if it takes us trial and error and until August to settle on the right 5, we may be too far behind to catch up. 3. We really need to count on injuries and or regressions, and having the depth we have now seems to address this, but it looked like we had that covered in 2025 and still ended up trading for DMay and relying on 2 rookies over the last 2 months of the season. 4. Even Bello seems questionable as a number 4, but he will likely be our #3, assuming we do add a #2. We may end up needing Sandoval, Crawford, Dobbins, Harrison, Early or someone else to be the #3, so that would make filling #4 and #5 that much harder. We felt so confident last year we traded Priester. For much of the season our top 3 SP'ers looked as good or better than most other teams top 3, but then Gio and Bello sputtered near the end. That should be a lesson to learn. The more #2-3 types you have the better. Loading up on 4-5's is a lot harder to make work. Here is the order we used our SP'ers in 2025: Crochet Houck (later on IL) Buehler (later DFA'd) Fitts (Giolito on IL) Later demoted Newcomb (Crawford on IL) Later traded away Dobbins (Doubleheader) Later on IL Bello Giolito Bernardino (opener) Criswell (1 start) Later demoted & IL D May (Later DFA'd) Tolle Early Harrison De Leon (1 GS at end of season)

How does Abreu play FT without trading an OF'er. Hell, we can't even platoon him and find enough playing time with Duran, Anthony and Rafaela. BTW, RA and JD are also LHBs and Rafaela has reverse splits. We are going to trade an OF'er, IMO.

Can you explain how we play 4 FT OF'ers in 3 slots? Do you want Duran, the worst defender of the 4 to DH most games? How is Duran at DH bring us the same value he'd have on another team as an OF'er? We have 4 very plus OF'ers along with 2 very good young depth pieces and the chance of bringing Ref back. We also have Yoshida, who the brass seems to think is meant for LF not DH. We have great needs at SP2, 1B and 2B/3B (or both.) It seems so simple to me. All the ingredients are in line for a trade.

No, We don't have a bad streak of aging pen arm additions, despite deals like Hendriks. We are discussing adding a SP'er. Most agree we need a solid and dependable #2. Adding depth SP'ers with injury history or aging issues is one thing, but most of the guys I listed from our past SP'er additions were added to be a big key to the rotation. Many of us were okay with Kluber, if he was the second best SP'er we added that season- same with others along teh way. I actually like Sandoval more than others, here and list him as out current #3, but he should be our 4 or 5.

My bad. I guess I felt like he was going to NYM all along, but we probably could have gotten him if we went large and LONG. The issue was JH's inability to go large enough and long enough on anyone before those two.

You crack me up saying you don't care about values then erupt over it. I said BTV or otherwise, meaning BTV doesn't really matter. I'm willing to give more than what many feel is warranted to get a guy like Greene, Skenes or Hunter Brown. "More than" may be subjective and mean something different to you over someone else. You don't think we understand that? What would you give for Skenes? Greene? Brown? I fully expect another non answer.

Waiting that long was reckless. That being said, the signing got us to the playoffs, despite dumping Devers (another reckless choice.)

We have the trade capital to add a solid #2. We have enough to get two. We may have to get creative with a 3 team deal to get Ryan, but we also have the "prospects" to get him without a third team, such as Campbell or Garcia, Arias or pitching prospects not named Tolle or early or some sort of mix and match. Duran for Lodolo is an overpay according to BTV, but I'd do it. I'm not against getting Sale, but not as THE #2. After Crochet and Bello (who has some questions too) almost all of our deep rotation depth are unproven youngsters (Tolle, Early, Harrison, Fitts and others) or pitchers coming off an injury (Crawford, Dobbins, Sandoval) or both (Perales.) I'd feel better having 3 dependable SP'ers- knowing that even those 3 are not a sure bet for 25+ GS'd.

At that point in the off season, he was the only one that could make us a playoff contender. It was an overpay but worth it. We should not have gotten to that point of desperation. We better not repeat that scenario this off season.

I'm not ignoring them or offering them in trades (hardly at all,) but we need a solid #2, and I'd prefer a younger guy than Sale, Merrill Kelly of some other 30+ pitcher.

I'm not against a massive overpay, BTV or otherwise. Most of the trades I suggest are BTV overpays. I'm not sure many of the younger pitchers I listed are "available," but I'd kick the tires. I thought the Crochet deal was an overpay, but I was fine with it. I did say, "We better extend him or risk it being a bad trade."

Wilson dropped off near the end, and I thought we were talking SP'ers. Chapman was a better RP'er example. SP'ers 30+ signed or traded for: '25: Buehler '24 Paxton '23 Kluber '22 Wacha & Hill (The only 2 that worked out okay, but missed key games.) '21 Richards & Paxton (Peacock) '20: Godley, Mazza & Kickham (Perez was 29) '19 Cashner & Chacin Great streak, huh? Maybe we get lucky, next time. Sandoval turns 30 next October. Why keep rolling the dice?

Best ERA- of younger pitchers 2024-2025 (150+ IP) 46 Skenes 63 Greene 64 Yamamoto 72 Crochet 73 H Brown 74 Abbott 76 Ragans & T Myers 77 Woo & Schwell. 83 Olson 87 Priester 88 Gil 90 L Ortiz & G Williams 91 Roupp 93 Bello 94 Kirby & Burke 95 J Soriano 96 Bibee 97 Gore 99 Bellozo

Who could be our next Crochet? I'd accept a 26, 27 or even 28 year old in a trade and extension. Peralta turns 30 in June and has 1 year left- not two like Crochet had. Ryan turns 30 in June, but he has 2 years left. Lodolo turns 28 before the season and has 2 years. Skubal just turned 29 and 1 year. None of these guys come very close to the Crochet situation. Skenes isn't even 24 and is pre arb (4 years to go) but PIT is not shopping him, HOU is not shopping 28 year old Hunter Brown (3 arbs to go) Ragans turns 28 soon. He has 3 years left. Hunter Greene is just 26 and is locked up for 3 years with options. I just don't see CIN trading him, unless we blow them away. Kirby turns 28 and Gore 27 in FEB, Bibee turns 27 in March. Woo turns 26 in Jan. None of these guys will be easy to pry from their current teams. Is it worth making a massive overkill offer to get one?

Indeed. Yankees fans in MA, Sox fans in CT and NY and even TEXAS! Hell, there might be more NYY+BOS fans in Tampa than Rays fans.

Wong's bat is not good enough to play 1B, unless in an emergency. Romy may need a position to get time. He's ahead of Wong on my 1B depth chart.

It seems that as much as we complain about adding oft injured or recently injured pitchers, every year, many posters suggest we add the next one.