Red Sox Pre-Offseason Mega Thread

[mvp 78]

55 minutes ago, drewski6 said:

Plenty of people were saying no, no, no, no, no to Alonso and Bregman and pointing to guys like KC and Casas as the role fillers.

Nobody wanted KC going into 2026. I don't believe that. 

[drewski6]

5 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

There has been a lot of frustration, especially with some recent ones like Mayer and KC, and to a lesser extent with Roman, but none of these guys are over 550 PAs yet.

Can we count it as frustrating that we got Crochet, Contreras, Gray, Durbin, AR & Mead for several top prospects? (Early B4 his trade, too, and others in previous seasons.)

I'm not frustrated with Tolle & Bennett. I wasn't last year with Narvaez, and guys like Rafaela, Abreu, Duran and even Casas for a bit, before that.

I like Arias a lot, but I'm not planning on even .725 in 2027. I've suggested trading him a lot.

Others seem more sure of his success than I am, but I haven't heard one poster say they are expecting even .750 from him year one. Some like him more than Story, but that's more a slight on Story than a big confidence boost for Arias, IMO.

Im confused about the point you are making , and suspect its because Im not making my point well.

We were very good on pitching and very good on defense.  For multiple years in a row, we have gotten rid of good hitting, a lot of that was justified by "the kids will step up", that didnt happen, and so now Im a little skeptical when I hear it.  

I think you also may be thinking some of the "posters" are directed at you.  But its a little insulting when you claim that nobody here ever said stuff that I am saying they said.  ITs more likely you didnt register it.

There are posters who are extrememly concerned about blocking kids or overpaying for hitter FAs.  And I think our teams have been built through that lens.  And I am just saying that the results we've had since we've gotten rid of DD have not been good.  

I am telling you that since we started being so concerned with how a contract will look 4 years down the line, or we cant sign player x that blocks player y (wehtehr it be dont sign alonso because then masas money would go to waste or dont sing player x when we have a prospect) - since that has been our modus operando, we have struggled.

Im not saying all prospects are useless or never work em in.  I am saying dont let them stop you from getting elite talent.  And if you are so worried that player x may block prospect y, then you are living in the past.  Because positions dont matter.  

If Arias is good enough he'll get on teh field.  It may not be at SS.  IT may not be in April.  But who cares.  You dont pass on Elly cuz you have Arias.  Arias has options , he can wait his turn.  And he'll get his turn.  Because if hes a good defender then he can play ss, 2b, 3b, 1b, lf, cf, rf....And at some point, an opportunity will arise.  

You dont stop yourself from getting Suarez, and Gray because you have Early.  You just say great Early becomes our sixth or seventh starter, who we can park in the minors. And if I said but Early is good, youd say dont worry , we'll use him.

What I am telling you is that Id like a bit more of that on teh position player side.  If Durbin and Arias dont have spots reserved for them, its okay.  Theyll get in there.  Injuries will happen, guys will fall off.  

Your prospects have options which means they make for great depth.  Thtas how you can take advantage of that. By parking them in the minors and making sure they can play 5 positions.  So when you inevitably get injuries, you dont need to play the waiver wire.  You dont need to go into the playoffs with a guy you got off the scrap heap hitting fourth like we did a couple years ago with Lowe.

Options are very valuable.  This is why guys like Criswell get packed up and sent out when they are out of them.  Give me 15 good hitters.  And ARias and Durbin can be in the top 15.  But Im not letting them stop me from getting more good hitters.  I want you to reconsider your quality over quantity and realize that we need both.  Just like how 5 SP isnt enough.  7 good hitters isnt enough. Because by the end of the season its 4, and you have 5 noodle bats.  

[moonslav59]

Just now, mvp 78 said:

Anyone pinning "lots of hopes" onto Arias is misguided. He's a good prospect, but is a bottom of the order bat right now. He's got a better glove than Story, but his bat could be a downgrade. 

Id there a single poster who is highly confident Arias will be a real good batter?

Second Q: If someone says yes, how confident are you he will hit over .750 or .775 in 2027?

[drewski6]

Joe Brady put out his lineup recently and it had Abreu hitting third.  Abreu wasnt at 3 to start last year, so this means that Brady wants to subtract from the offense yet again. Yet again.

Kimmi absolutely said that she would rather go into the season with KC as an opening day starter for 2026 then give out a deal of 4 or more years.

The we need profits more than bats contingent is very real.

[mvp 78]

53 minutes ago, drewski6 said:

The last 7 years, the sox have mostly avoided getting elite free agnet position players, and mostly avoided trading for elite position players.....Instead we've been more focused on subtracting position players and trying to fill em in with young, homegrowns like KC, Mayer, RA....

And the results have not been pretty.  And no, neither Story nor Yoshida were considered elite when we got them.  Maybe Story, but thats not enough to convince me that we should be cheap forever more with position players.

7 years ago was 2019. Roman, Mayer and KC hadn't even been drafted yet. 

They weren't dumping Mookie and others "to make room for prospects." They dumped all those players because they didn't want to pay large salaries anymore (and still don't). Do you consider Franchy Cordero a homegrown player, because that's the type of player they ran out from 20-23? They youth movement didn't really start until '24 with Rafaela, Abreu, Duran, Bello given fulltime roles and some extensions handed out. That was all under Breslow. 

[mvp 78]

4 minutes ago, drewski6 said:

Joe Brady put out his lineup recently and it had Abreu hitting third.  Abreu wasnt at 3 to start last year, so this means that Brady wants to subtract from the offense yet again. Yet again.

Kimmi absolutely said that she would rather go into the season with KC as an opening day starter for 2026 then give out a deal of 4 or more years.

The we need profits more than bats contingent is very real.

Abreu started hitting 3rd 106 times last year. 

[drewski6]

8 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

I'm not for wily nilly trying to fundamentally change the approach of a good batter. I'm just not.

K's have never bothered me, if the guys gets on base and /or smacks HRs. Anthony does enough of both to not concern me about too many Ks. I don't think tweaking a player's general approach is a simple matter. It involves great risk of destroying the good the player was doing.

I literally laughed when people would say, "They need to teach Papi to not swing at low and outside pitching." To me, that is an idiotic statement. (Sorry, if tat was you, because you are not an idiot.)

I have no issues with Rafaela, and he just topped out at .761. Fred still can't stop suggesting we replace him or that he needs to change his approach. He's fine as is.

I'm not saying to never try to offer advice or get someone to try a little tweak here and there. but this sounds like a major approach change request, and I'm 200% against even trying it. Maybe he cliff-dives like KC and I eat crow. I like Anthony's approach. I like his swing. I like his eye. I think he ends up over .800 and probably over .850 for his prime years.

I'm actually more bothered by batters swinging for Hrs every time than guys like Roman.

Its all a small tweak.  Im saying be more aggressive.  Thats it. 

Look, a curveball at your ankles, that you pick up the spin on - is a meatball.  A changeup inside, even if its a ball, is a meatball.  A first pitch fastball in your red zone is a meatball.

Swing at the meatballs.  And you LA, EV, OBP, SLG, OPS, HH%, Barrell rate, HR, RBI, RUns will all go up.

[drewski6]

2 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

Abreu started hitting 3rd 106 times last year. 

But he wasnt projected to be third or fourth at the start of the year.

[Hugh2]

3 hours ago, Old Red said:

Who else had as much HYPE, and EXPECTATIONS?🤔

I think what I didn't clarify early was I'm not just talking about the Boston Red Sox, but rather I'm talking about prospects in general.  Prospects being "suspect" is not exclusive to Boston. 

BUTTTTTT Since you asked, here are some top RED SOX prospects who have either dissapointed or completely busted this century:  

Jorge De La Rosa

Freddy Sanchez

Lars Anderson

Casey Kelly (I'm going thru a list but this is the first kid who came to mind)

Ryan Kalish

Will Middlebrooks

Blake Swihart

Jay Groome 

Michael Chavis

 

 

[drewski6]

5 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

7 years ago was 2019. Roman, Mayer and KC hadn't even been drafted yet. 

They weren't dumping Mookie and others "to make room for prospects." They dumped all those players because they didn't want to pay large salaries anymore (and still don't). Do you consider Franchy Cordero a homegrown player, because that's the type of player they ran out from 20-23? They youth movement didn't really start until '24 with Rafaela, Abreu, Duran, Bello given fulltime roles and some extensions handed out. That was all under Breslow. 

Thats fair.

[Hugh2]

3 hours ago, drewski6 said:

Minor league players have options. Prospects have options.  I take advantage of options, and I count on injuries.  I dont try to make room for prospects , unless they are superstars at AAA.  I also make sure they are cross-trained to multiple positoins, so they can cover multiple spots.  And I dont rely on them to fix an offense that has been full blown bad since we traded Devers.

I don't disagree with that at all, but I'd add that I play a guy if he's the best option.  If I believe Arias is the best SS on this team and he can help us on day one......I'm starting him at SS

[Hugh2]

1 hour ago, drewski6 said:

And how do you protect yourself from this? By not counting on youngsters to hit above seventh in your lineup.  And if they are, you have too many youngsters and/or d-first players.

I agree, the Sox made a mistake by being very thin on offense. 

[moonslav59]

4 minutes ago, drewski6 said:

Im confused about the point you are making , and suspect its because Im not making my point well.

We were very good on pitching and very good on defense.  For multiple years in a row, we have gotten rid of good hitting, a lot of that was justified by "the kids will step up", that didnt happen, and so now Im a little skeptical when I hear it.  

I think you also may be thinking some of the "posters" are directed at you.  But its a little insulting when you claim that nobody here ever said stuff that I am saying they said.  ITs more likely you didnt register it.

I'll chunk my responses, and to be clear, I enjoy discussing this with you.

I don't agree we've had good pitching. Before Brez, our whole system sucked with pitching- farm, development, acquisitions- everything. IMO, we'd never have improved if Brez didn't fix that, and I was shocked how quickly he did it.

Now, dumping Devers, while logical and needed without replacing his offense was a bigger ding on Brez than the Sale trade. Bregman did well, but for 2/3 a season, then he let him go and barely replaced him with Contreras.

The need is clearly offense, now. Maybe everyone doesn't have the same sense of urgency on that as you do, or even to my level, but we both want an elite bat or one plus another good one. Not everyone think it's as important as we do. I'm not denying some posters don't agree, but I get the sense you overblow the amount and extent of contentment with our offense as is.

I also think it's not totally la-la land to have faith in Mead, AR and better seasons from Anthony and some others as "maybe" being enough. I disagree, but I don't think they are all wet and have no basis in reality.

I like our core. I'm not sure you do as much as I do, and that's fine.

IMO, we should upgrade our weakest slot (SS- DLC or Abrams.) Maybe DH (Sato) or 2B (BLowe) if Mead DHs or LF (Suzuki) if Anthony DHs. I'd like two adds, but don't think we have the budget and trade capital to pull it off.

I know many posters don't agree with me or you.

[drewski6]

Im not saying dont work in the prospects or that we need to sign anyone and everyone.  Im saying two years ago we lost Devers, last year we lost Bregman...And I dont think we are going to go from 25th best offense to top 5 next year (is that not the goal?) via subtraction.

I do agree with Moons point that adding Mead , Adley and Roman isnt starting with the same base. That there already have been additions. I get that.  I am saying though, that not everybody needs a set position.  Not everyone needs an opening day spot reserved.  Its okay if Arias, Durbin are not in our starting 9 on opening day next year.  In fact, it prob means we have a pretty strong position plyaer group if they are not.  The Pirates are always trying to work in there next young cheap player ASAP. 

[drewski6]

2 minutes ago, Hugh2 said:

I don't disagree with that at all, but I'd add that I play a guy if he's the best option.  If I believe Arias is the best SS on this team and he can help us on day one......I'm starting him at SS

Not always for me.  If I have a SS prospect who I think is an A+ with options, and a SS vet who I think is B+ , I may park the prospect in AAA and teach him 2b, 3b, ss, 1b so if any of those spots open (or DH) and they will, I got a very very good backup waiting in the wings.

Starting with 9 starters on the offensive side of the ball is like starting the year with 5 starting pitchers.  Its not enough.  GUys will get hurt.  Guys will fall off.  Having MLB players waiting for their turn is a good problem to have.  But if you make sure you have a spot for them, and then there is an injury (and there will be), you will find yourself playing the waiver wire.

If you make sure you can start all your guys who have options, and then injuries and fall offs cause you to noodle bat out of hte playoffs 2 years in a row and be like 25th in offense reg season, I dont think its fair to blame injuries.  It was a conscious decision to thin yourself out.  If you are shipping out STory for 4m in salary relief, you are thinning yourself out.  

[moonslav59]

16 minutes ago, drewski6 said:

I think you also may be thinking some of the "posters" are directed at you.  But its a little insulting when you claim that nobody here ever said stuff that I am saying they said.  ITs more likely you didnt register it.

There are posters who are extrememly concerned about blocking kids or overpaying for hitter FAs.  And I think our teams have been built through that lens.  And I am just saying that the results we've had since we've gotten rid of DD have not been good.  
 

Yes, there have been posters who pre-slotted prospects into FT roles, but I don't think any expected greatness form day 1.

I was answering your point about posters not wanting Alonso or Bregman due to prospects pending rival. I disagree on that one. Nobody trusted Mayer before 2026. Nobody trusted KC before 2026. Nobody wanted a prospect over Bregman. Some liked Arias but not to start the 2026 season at SS and what Story at 3B over Bregman, and 100% confidence in Mayer at 2B or 3B? Sorry. I don't think anyone did.

There was no prospect for 1B or DH (instead of Alonso.).

[drewski6]

6 minutes ago, Hugh2 said:

I agree, the Sox made a mistake by being very thin on offense. 

I have 0 doubt that if Arias is here next year, we will use him.  But to me trading Story so we can start him game 1 is making ourselves thinner.

[Old Red]

11 minutes ago, Hugh2 said:

I think what I didn't clarify early was I'm not just talking about the Boston Red Sox, but rather I'm talking about prospects in general.  Prospects being "suspect" is not exclusive to Boston. 

BUTTTTTT Since you asked, here are some top RED SOX prospects who have either dissapointed or completely busted this century:  

Jorge De La Rosa

Freddy Sanchez

Lars Anderson

Casey Kelly (I'm going thru a list but this is the first kid who came to mind)

Ryan Kalish

Will Middlebrooks

Blake Swihart

Jay Groome 

Michael Chavis

 

 

Trey Ball comes to mind.

[drewski6]

3 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

Yes, there have been posters who pre-slotted prospects into FT roles, but I don't think any expected greatness form day 1.

I was answering your point about posters not wanting Alonso or Bregman due to prospects pending rival. I disagree on that one. Nobody trusted Mayer before 2026. Nobody trusted KC before 2026. Nobody wanted a prospect over Bregman. Some liked Arias but not to start the 2026 season at SS and what Story at 3B over Bregman, and 100% confidence in Mayer at 2B or 3B? Sorry. I don't think anyone did.

There was no prospect for 1B or DH (instead of Alonso.).

Before this year , Joe Brady and Kimmi both said they would rather go with Casas and KC then sign an expensive free agent.  That happened.

[moonslav59]

19 minutes ago, drewski6 said:

Joe Brady put out his lineup recently and it had Abreu hitting third.  Abreu wasnt at 3 to start last year, so this means that Brady wants to subtract from the offense yet again. Yet again.

Kimmi absolutely said that she would rather go into the season with KC as an opening day starter for 2026 then give out a deal of 4 or more years.

The we need profits more than bats contingent is very real.

Maybe it didnt "register," and I apologize if I did, but I don't recall anyone wanting KC as FT'er n 2026. Even if it's one, is it worth ranting about content fans, when it's one or two? (granted, I said name one."

I will say that the reality is we have a fixed winter budget, so what we spend here mean no spending there, so at times, we do have to choose where we skimp, if we spend all or money on an elite (bat) player. (Which both of us feel we need more than anything else.)

Kimmi hasnt been posting much, so I got caught up in recency. She does favor giving kids a shot. Joe seems to be more optimistic about the players/prospects we have than others, but I don't see him being overly reliant on prospects to carry us to a ring.

[drewski6]

16 minutes ago, Hugh2 said:

I think what I didn't clarify early was I'm not just talking about the Boston Red Sox, but rather I'm talking about prospects in general.  Prospects being "suspect" is not exclusive to Boston. 

BUTTTTTT Since you asked, here are some top RED SOX prospects who have either dissapointed or completely busted this century:  

Jorge De La Rosa

Freddy Sanchez

Lars Anderson

Casey Kelly (I'm going thru a list but this is the first kid who came to mind)

Ryan Kalish

Will Middlebrooks

Blake Swihart

Jay Groome 

Michael Chavis

 

 

Time out. Time out.  Flag on the play.  3x all-star Freddy Sanchez absolutely does not belong grouped in with these chumps.  

[moonslav59]

7 minutes ago, drewski6 said:

I have 0 doubt that if Arias is here next year, we will use him.  But to me trading Story so we can start him game 1 is making ourselves thinner.

I only trade Story, if we get some added budget space that allows us to get an elite bat over just a good one.

I'm not so sure he goes quietly to a bench role and $30M (counting the buy out) is a lot for a sub that may not even be as good as the $6M IKF was. I don't like him at SS, but I do like him better than Monasterio and maybe Cheng, too. We are "thin" there.

My suggestion is trading Arias and others for a solid big bat SS, and I really like Arias.

[drewski6]

4 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

Maybe it didnt "register," and I apologize if I did, but I don't recall anyone wanting KC as FT'er n 2026. Even if it's one, is it worth ranting about content fans, when it's one or two? (granted, I said name one."

I will say that the reality is we have a fixed winter budget, so what we spend here mean no spending there, so at times, we do have to choose where we skimp, if we spend all or money on an elite (bat) player. (Which both of us feel we need more than anything else.)

Kimmi hasnt been posting much, so I got caught up in recency. She does favor giving kids a shot. Joe seems to be more optimistic about the players/prospects we have than others, but I don't see him being overly reliant on prospects to carry us to a ring.

I can settle on this.

[Hugh2]

10 minutes ago, drewski6 said:

Not always for me.  If I have a SS prospect who I think is an A+ with options, and a SS vet who I think is B+ , I may park the prospect in AAA and teach him 2b, 3b, ss, 1b so if any of those spots open (or DH) and they will, I got a very very good backup waiting in the wings.

Starting with 9 starters on the offensive side of the ball is like starting the year with 5 starting pitchers.  Its not enough.  GUys will get hurt.  Guys will fall off.  Having MLB players waiting for their turn is a good problem to have.  But if you make sure you have a spot for them, and then there is an injury (and there will be), you will find yourself playing the waiver wire.

If you make sure you can start all your guys who have options, and then injuries and fall offs cause you to noodle bat out of hte playoffs 2 years in a row and be like 25th in offense reg season, I dont think its fair to blame injuries.  It was a conscious decision to thin yourself out.  If you are shipping out STory for 4m in salary relief, you are thinning yourself out.  

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this.  I think you have to do what is best for the player at times, if that maximize their value then that is ultimately what is best for the team. 

Just because you're opening yourself up to starting Arias at SS doesn't mean you're shipping Story off.  If Arias/Meade/Durbin go down he can start again, he can back up infield positions and he can DH a lot too.  Not that I wouldn't trade him if a team actually wanted to give up value for him......I just doubt that happens. 

 

[Hugh2]

12 minutes ago, drewski6 said:

I have 0 doubt that if Arias is here next year, we will use him.  But to me trading Story so we can start him game 1 is making ourselves thinner.

I actually never said trade Story, I said get either him or Yoshida off the roster and I have a strong preference for Yoshida being the odd man out.

[Hugh2]

10 minutes ago, Old Red said:

Trey Ball comes to mind.

Holly Hell yes, my list in incomplete.  

Yeah, I "dropped the ball on that one" 

 

[drewski6]

5 minutes ago, Hugh2 said:

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this.  I think you have to do what is best for the player at times, if that maximize their value then that is ultimately what is best for the team. 

Just because you're opening yourself up to starting Arias at SS doesn't mean you're shipping Story off.  If Arias/Meade/Durbin go down he can start again, he can back up infield positions and he can DH a lot too.  Not that I wouldn't trade him if a team actually wanted to give up value for him......I just doubt that happens. 

 

Thats fair. Im okay with starting Story in a bench role if Arias proves ready, but Im not giving Story away for someone who will eat 6m of his deal.  I am more likely to give Story the "C" then dump him.  I think we should give him teh "C"

[drewski6]

I think Story deserves teh C, and for that reason I think if you told him he was going to be a super sub and he needs to help Arias and Durbin and Mead with his experience and also setting an example by not drinking before game nights, showing up to the park early, time in the weight room....I think Story would be a good soldier.

[drewski6]

6 minutes ago, Hugh2 said:

I actually never said trade Story, I said get either him or Yoshida off the roster and I have a strong preference for Yoshida being the odd man out.

For sure. I can settle for this.  

[drewski6]

4 minutes ago, Hugh2 said:

Holly Hell yes, my list in incomplete.  

Yeah, I "dropped the ball on that one" 

 

Who are you , Duran in the 2025 playoffs?