Boston Red Sox Looking For An Upgrade Over Jarren Duran

[Hugh2]

3 minutes ago, 5GoldGlovesOF,75 said:

Points taken. But can you also appreciate the need for a balance of young and untested talent with veteran regulars hungry for rings while they can still contribute? 

The Red Sox need a solid second baseman and a good righthanded bat. The industry word is that Marte needs a change of scenery. Boston sounds like the perfect fit...

And that's why I loved the Bregman signing last year, but I wouldn't want to trade away the farm for a veteran presence.  And I get just trading Duran for Marte doesn't run the well dry. 

[mvp 78]

13 hours ago, moonslav59 said:

I think some teams would prefer the younger, less expensive, longer controlled, higher ISO, better defender Abreu over Duran.

That's not what the rumor mill says. Teams are calling for Rafaela, then Duran and not really for Abreu.

[mvp 78]

11 hours ago, notin said:

I hope the Sox can hold on to Early.  It won’t be long before he is outpitching Ryan.

That can be interpreted two ways…

I think Early peaks as a decent 3rd starter unless his velo really picks up. I don't think his 1.86 BB/9 will hold much longer. His whiff and chase skyrocketed in BOS from WOO. I'd expect regression in 2026. I've liked him for a long time, but people need to have realistic expectations. 

Because of Tolle's velo, he's a more valuable commodity due to the higher upside. He has a lower floor though with reliever risk. 

[mvp 78]

1 hour ago, Hugh2 said:

I get that "Anthony" is the upgrade by the definiton of some and I don't disagree with that take but it's just an odd way of framing it.  Like, the guy is already on your roster so how exactly are you "looking for".

Could the Sox possibly move TWO outfielders this offseason and sign Kyle Tucker?

LF Tucker

CF Rafaela

RF Anthony

Not going to speculate further on this comment about who you get back for Duran/Abreu (or maybe it's Duran/Garcia) but packaged up with some prospects you can imagine the possibilities of plugging up 3B and SP2. 

Could, but very unlikely. 

[moonslav59]

10 hours ago, JoeBrady said:

I rarely project any single player to be in the top-4.  But who are going to acquire that is an upgrade to Duran?  And trading an outfielder for an equal player at a different position, isn't upgrading from Duran.

I see it this way: I think we waste value by playing Duran or Anthony at DH. I'd be okay trading Rafaela or Abreu, but both are excellent defenders in very difficult Fenway positions. Anthony may outhit Duran in 2026 and is a better defender, so we likely lose no value in LF.

Would Duran be a better DH than a Masa-Romy platooned DH? I'd say yes, but how large is that upgrade versus the upgrade we get at the #2SP'er slot by trading Duran? To me, it should not be close. Simply put, Duran is worth more to other teams as a LF'er than to us as a DH.

[moonslav59]

33 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

That's not what the rumor mill says. Teams are calling for Rafaela, then Duran and not really for Abreu.

I've mentioned Rafaela a few times, too. I do think Duran brings back more than Abreu, but some teams might want the cheaper option.

[moonslav59]

24 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

I think Early peaks as a decent 3rd starter unless his velo really picks up. I don't think his 1.86 BB/9 will hold much longer. His whiff and chase skyrocketed in BOS from WOO. I'd expect regression in 2026. I've liked him for a long time, but people need to have realistic expectations. 

Because of Tolle's velo, he's a more valuable commodity due to the higher upside. He has a lower floor though with reliever risk. 

That's a good assessment, and I often am critical when people make judgments based on small sample sizes, but I was really impressed with Early's approach, confidence and control of several pitches. It might have been an outlier, but I kinda like Early and Tolle about the same. 

I do think Tolle has more upside, but it's the "lower floor" that worries me. I'd like to keep both by trying to include 1-2 pitchers from this group instead, but GMs may balk at the offer:

Crawford & Perales

Dobbins & Fitts

Harrison & Clarke

(Mix and match)

So many teams need 2-3 SP'ers that maybe offering quantities of promise could outweigh a solo, high upside pitching prospect.

Duran plus any 2 of the 6 pitchers I listed should net us an excellent SP'er.

I'm not sure Duran, Fitts plus 2 from these guys gets the same pitcher:

Fajardo, Valera, Sandlin (maybe Witherspoon/Phillips added in this mix choice)

[Malcolm White]

14 hours ago, moonslav59 said:

I think some teams would prefer the younger, less expensive, longer controlled, higher ISO, better defender Abreu over Duran.

They should, esp. if they want to dodge Duran's .600 OPS vs. lefties (Abreu .676).

[moonslav59]

11 minutes ago, Malcolm White said:

They should, esp. if they want to dodge Duran's .600 OPS vs. lefties (Abreu .676).

Prior to 2025 Abreu was worse vs LHPs, so I'm not sure we can say he's better going forward, but I think it's safe to say they are close. Both would not be platooned on many teams- maybe most.

 

[notin]

5 hours ago, Hitch said:

Well, rumour has it, we're allowed to trade prospects, too. I'll have to do some more digging to be sure on this fancy notion. 

Getting a No 2 off a contending team will be difficult for obvious reasons. Getting a No2 off a non contending team makes no sense if the return is Duran. The Twins for example are clearly in sell mode, so they won't want Duran. 

You're being quite the contrarian with some posters recently. On some topics that really don't require it. 

Sorry for fostering the discussion.  
 

And since you’re countering a specific question, vague answers are unacceptable.  Which prospects?

[notin]

29 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

Prior to 2025 Abreu was worse vs LHPs, so I'm not sure we can say he's better going forward, but I think it's safe to say they are close. Both would not be platooned on many teams- maybe most.

 

They’re both weak vs LHP.  Also, neither should be platooned…

[Hitch]

54 minutes ago, notin said:

Sorry for fostering the discussion.  
 

And since you’re countering a specific question, vague answers are unacceptable.  Which prospects?

Saying we can't trade for a 2 if we've traded Duran is not fostering conversation, it's acting obtuse for self gratification. 

Your specific question was what do I propose we do (instead of trading Duran). I've answered. You trade prospects. You know, the way everyone else does.

[moonslav59]

1 hour ago, notin said:

They’re both weak vs LHP.  Also, neither should be platooned…

I agree on no platoon for both, but I would choose to give off days vs lefties. If I had to platoon one, I think it would be Duran.

Masa and casas do not need platoons, but Romy is so damn good vs lefties, I'd do it.

[mvp 78]

2 hours ago, moonslav59 said:

That's a good assessment, and I often am critical when people make judgments based on small sample sizes, but I was really impressed with Early's approach, confidence and control of several pitches. It might have been an outlier, but I kinda like Early and Tolle about the same. 

I do think Tolle has more upside, but it's the "lower floor" that worries me. I'd like to keep both by trying to include 1-2 pitchers from this group instead, but GMs may balk at the offer:

Crawford & Perales

Dobbins & Fitts

Harrison & Clarke

(Mix and match)

So many teams need 2-3 SP'ers that maybe offering quantities of promise could outweigh a solo, high upside pitching prospect.

Duran plus any 2 of the 6 pitchers I listed should net us an excellent SP'er.

I'm not sure Duran, Fitts plus 2 from these guys gets the same pitcher:

Fajardo, Valera, Sandlin (maybe Witherspoon/Phillips added in this mix choice)

I'd keep Tolle and Early at the expense of the other pitchers in the org too. Third in line to me is Fajardo. I think I'd want to have Witherspoon/Phillips/Eyanson in the system for a year before I moved them as well. 

[moonslav59]

1 hour ago, mvp 78 said:

I'd keep Tolle and Early at the expense of the other pitchers in the org too. Third in line to me is Fajardo. I think I'd want to have Witherspoon/Phillips/Eyanson in the system for a year before I moved them as well. 

I agree, totally. I don't think the rookie pitchers have much trade value, anyway.

My keeper order is...

1. Early

1B. Tolle

3. Fajardo

4. Valera

5. Perales

6. Clarke

With experience (not counting Crochet, Sandoval & Bello)

1. Harrison

2. Dobbins

3. Crawford

4. Fitts

[drewski6]

6 hours ago, moonslav59 said:

I see it this way: I think we waste value by playing Duran or Anthony at DH. I'd be okay trading Rafaela or Abreu, but both are excellent defenders in very difficult Fenway positions. Anthony may outhit Duran in 2026 and is a better defender, so we likely lose no value in LF.

Would Duran be a better DH than a Masa-Romy platooned DH? I'd say yes, but how large is that upgrade versus the upgrade we get at the #2SP'er slot by trading Duran? To me, it should not be close. Simply put, Duran is worth more to other teams as a LF'er than to us as a DH.

No way, Duran is a full time DH next year. Theyll put Cedanne in the infield before they do that.  Most likely it will be a rotation.

[drewski6]

5 hours ago, notin said:

They’re both weak vs LHP.  Also, neither should be platooned…

Why not?

[drewski6]

2 hours ago, moonslav59 said:

I agree, totally. I don't think the rookie pitchers have much trade value, anyway.

My keeper order is...

1. Early

1B. Tolle

3. Fajardo

4. Valera

5. Perales

6. Clarke

With experience (not counting Crochet, Sandoval & Bello)

1. Harrison

2. Dobbins

3. Crawford

4. Fitts

Early Tolle are non starters to me, as in Im not including them , not saying i see them as relievers (lol). Dont think it makes sense to move Crawford / Fitts. Just no value there, and they are useful depth.  Harrison is the one I would look to move.  Dont hate moving Dobbins either or Perales / Clarke.  Not sure the value gap between em, but if Harrison is third on the list in terms of trade value units, hes the one I think I would move.

[mvp 78]

Is Campbell going to be the "upgrade" for Jarren Duran? Seems like they are taking him completely out of the IF rotation and putting him in the OF going forward. 

[moonslav59]

34 minutes ago, drewski6 said:

No way, Duran is a full time DH next year. Theyll put Cedanne in the infield before they do that.  Most likely it will be a rotation.

They stuck Anthony there, last year.

Duran is the worst defender of the 4- five if you count Garcia.

[drewski6]

3 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

They stuck Anthony there, last year.

Duran is the worst defender of the 4- five if you count Garcia.

Still wont DH.  They'll trade an OF'er or play Cedanne infield.  They may do both and let one of Masa/Campbell play LF.

[moonslav59]

2 minutes ago, drewski6 said:

Still wont DH.  They'll trade an OF'er or play Cedanne infield.  They may do both and let one of Masa/Campbell play LF.

My point has been that Duran is worth more to another team as an OF'er than to us as a DH.

Rafaela should never play infield again, unless as a 1-2 game emergency.

[drewski6]

1 minute ago, moonslav59 said:

My point has been that Duran is worth more to another team as an OF'er than to us as a DH.

Rafaela should never play infield again, unless as a 1-2 game emergency.

Should vs shouldnt, my point is that the in order of likelihood

1. Someone is traded
2. There is a positional rotation where mutliple guys play DH sometimes, and outfielders move to infield sometimes

Rafaela will play inf again in his life.  Just like Betts.  Not saying that I would pencil him to inf right now, just saying that nobody is going to not use his versatility.  What happens if we trade Duran and then Campbell is hitting .400 in AAA in May and we are getting nothing from 2b?  Most likely, Cedanne goes to infield, Campbell takes over in OF.

Its not plan A, but it will happen at some point (maybe not next year). Guys move around.

[drewski6]

The chance that Duran is a full time DH next year, as in plays OF less than 20% of his games played is a far lower likelihood than Cedanne playing a lot of infield next year.  Not advocating for the latter, but teams arent pigeonholing on D anymore.  Good defenders are getting moved around.

[moonslav59]

4 minutes ago, drewski6 said:

Should vs shouldnt, my point is that the in order of likelihood

1. Someone is traded
2. There is a positional rotation where mutliple guys play DH sometimes, and outfielders move to infield sometimes

Rafaela will play inf again in his life.  Just like Betts.  Not saying that I would pencil him to inf right now, just saying that nobody is going to not use his versatility.  What happens if we trade Duran and then Campbell is hitting .400 in AAA in May and we are getting nothing from 2b?  Most likely, Cedanne goes to infield, Campbell takes over in OF.

Its not plan A, but it will happen at some point (maybe not next year). Guys move around.

Durans D has regressed where playing some DH will happen in his life.

I'd rather have Duran at DH than Rafaela at 2B, although if Brez does nothing to fill 2B/3B (Mayer at the other) I could see that being a better alignment, so point taken.

[drewski6]

1 minute ago, moonslav59 said:

Durans D has regressed where playing some DH will happen in his life.

I'd rather have Duran at DH than Rafaela at 2B, although if Brez does nothing to fill 2B/3B (Mayer at the other) I could see that being a better alignment, so point taken.

Sorry, meant Duran playing full time DH in 2026 is beyond unlikely.  And Cedanne never playing inf again is beyond unlikely.  There will be a time when it makes sense to move him there.  Hes a very good infielder, and if he isnt , he will be.

If you watch combat sports, MMA.  Some of the best submission guys turn into the best boxers.  Its crazy but its more about being "the dude" than it is about experience.  Whatever made Cedanne the best OF'er in the AL will make him the best infielder in the AL. It might be focus. It might be determination.  It might be work ethic.  Look how fast Betts took to SS and how fast Varsho took to CF (from Catcher) People who excel wind up excelling.  Cedanne would be a very good infielder.  Not saying we should put him there as plan A.

But my point is just about likelihood.  Theres a chance that Duran DHs some next year, theres also a chance he doesnt play against many lefties, theres also a chance someone is traded. Theres a chance that we use our OF overflow to cover 2b, 1b, even DH.  But it wont be Duran DH'ing every night. It will be someone sitting some nights, or someone playing a non ideal position some nights, or a trade.

 

[drewski6]

The one thing I know for sure is that it wont be every player playing the same position every night. There will be days off, platoons, injuries and yes, defensive versatility will get used.  Youll see plenty of guys play multiple positions.

[moonslav59]

3 minutes ago, drewski6 said:

Sorry, meant Duran playing full time DH in 2026 is beyond unlikely.  And Cedanne never playing inf again is beyond unlikely.  There will be a time when it makes sense to move him there.  Hes a very good infielder, and if he isnt , he will be.

If you watch combat sports, MMA.  Some of the best submission guys turn into the best boxers.  Its crazy but its more about being "the dude" than it is about experience.  Whatever made Cedanne the best OF'er in the AL will make him the best infielder in the AL. It might be focus. It might be determination.  It might be work ethic.  Look how fast Betts took to SS and how fast Varsho took to CF (from Catcher) People who excel wind up excelling.  Cedanne would be a very good infielder.  Not saying we should put him there as plan A.

But my point is just about likelihood.  Theres a chance that Duran DHs some next year, theres also a chance he doesnt play against many lefties, theres also a chance someone is traded. Theres a chance that we use our OF overflow to cover 2b, 1b, even DH.  But it wont be Duran DH'ing every night. It will be someone sitting some nights, or someone playing a non ideal position some nights, or a trade.

Got it.

Also, I said Rafaela should not play the infield again, except for a couple days as an emergency, NOT that he never would or in unlikely to. I know Cora: he'll play him there, next year for 5-10+ games, maybe more if we don't trade an OF'er. (A longshot no trade is made.)

[moonslav59]

35 minutes ago, drewski6 said:

Why not?

Yaz was a career .692 batter vs LHPs.

[Larry Cook]

49 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

Got it.

Also, I said Rafaela should not play the infield again, except for a couple days as an emergency, NOT that he never would or in unlikely to. I know Cora: he'll play him there, next year for 5-10+ games, maybe more if we don't trade an OF'er. (A longshot no trade is made.)

We do not have to trade any of our outfielders! 
 

ideally, bres-slow earns his money by enticing someone to take yoshida from us. 
 

hang’em Chaim is the perfect trade partner for this.