Morosi: Jarren Duran Would Be A "Great Fit" With Detroit Tigers

[mvp 78]

48 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

How about this? Find out what Skubal told DET he wanted. Tell DET to sign him and here is what we'll give you once he signs.

That would really go up the DET fans sideways.

[Hugh2]

48 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

That's not really an answer, and Skubal is no Crochet. Much of Crochet was unknown, and that's why he didn't get mega bucks.

No it is an answer, I definitively believe exactly what I said.  Just because you don't have an extension in place when you trade a guy doesn't mean you haven't had conversations about what each side wants, or even have a framework. 

That's an entirely realistic situation that happens and this may be conjecture on my part but that's probably exactly what happened with Crochet. 

These guys all have agents, teams have relationships with these agents.  They're talking. 

[Hugh2]

53 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

Yes. I've documented it, posted about it and suggested we go the trade route on pitchers for many years because of it.

What did I say that makes you think I feel otherwise?

I'd love it, if we traded for Skubal and extended him. I'm just not sure the Crochet example is evidence JH will go super larger and longer on Skubal. I have zero trust in this. That is my reason.

Secondary, is the theory that trading for someone and then paying them NYM money seems like a bad idea. Just do the paying part and leave out the trade.

If someone else trades for Skubal and signs him for less than NYM money, I'll admit I was wrong, but even then, I'd still doubt that JH would have got it done.

 

It's funny you keep using NYM as an example of paying guy and exclude the LAD paying money to sign guys.  The LAD just won back to back world series.  

Pay premium players!

[Hugh2]

51 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

How about this? Find out what Skubal told DET he wanted. Tell DET to sign him and here is what we'll give you once he signs.

Is there any precedent for this in baseball?

[mvp 78]

15 minutes ago, Hugh2 said:

Is there any precedent for this in baseball?

Just go the Halladay route. Why complicate it further? DET knows the number. They can tell the number to BOS. BOS can be given a few days to negotiate or call off the trade.

[notin]

1 hour ago, moonslav59 said:

That's not really an answer, and Skubal is no Crochet. Much of Crochet was unknown, and that's why he didn't get mega bucks.

I don’t think Crochet was an unknown.  The White Sox liked him enough to make him a first round pick and the Red Sox liked him enough to give up two top 50 prospects.  As fans, Crochet didnt have the track record we like, but that’s not the same as being unknown…

[drewski6]

1 minute ago, notin said:

I don’t think Crochet was an unknown.  The White Sox liked him enough to make him a first round pick and the Red Sox liked him enough to give up two top 50 prospects.  As fans, Crochet didnt have the track record we like, but that’s not the same as being unknown…

Agree.  Trade wise, Skubal should have less value than crochet and therefore easier to obtain (only 1 yr from UFA as opposed to Crochet who was 2), but flip side - hed be harder to resign because hes a UFA so soon.

[notin]

7 hours ago, Hugh2 said:

Every contract for the best player in the game is going to be insane from here on out. 

If we aren't willing to go a little crazy, we'll never sign the best players in baseball ever again. 

There are many who think $100million over the previous high is not A LITTLE crazy.  

[notin]

1 minute ago, drewski6 said:

Agree.  Trade wise, Skubal should have less value than crochet and therefore easier to obtain (only 1 yr from UFA as opposed to Crochet who was 2), but flip side - hed be harder to resign because hes a UFA so soon.

I’d think Skubal’s price was similar to Kyle Tucker - maybe a bit higher since Tucker has 0 Cy Youngs and doesn’t pitch.  

[notin]

32 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

Just go the Halladay route. Why complicate it further? DET knows the number. They can tell the number to BOS. BOS can be given a few days to negotiate or call off the trade.

Why would Detroit do that?  I’d think they just take the prospects and wish Boston luck.  If Boston backs out, call the Mets.  Call the Dodgers.  Call the Yankees…

[Hugh2]

4 minutes ago, notin said:

There are many who think $100million over the previous high is not A LITTLE crazy.  

A.) Fans don't set the market

B.) His demand isn't necessarily the settling point.  Maybe he signs for 350

[notin]

3 minutes ago, Hugh2 said:

A.) Fans don't set the market

B.) His demand isn't necessarily the settling point.  Maybe he signs for 350

Fans are much more willing to throw around $400mill than Henry is.

I didn’t bring up the $400mill, but if Skubal hits free agency, bidding starts at $333 over 9.  Topping that $36mill AAV that Cole has will become a factor for some reason…

 

 

[moonslav59]

1 hour ago, mvp 78 said:

That would really go up the DET fans sideways.

It would be done on the hush-hush.

[moonslav59]

22 minutes ago, notin said:

I don’t think Crochet was an unknown.  The White Sox liked him enough to make him a first round pick and the Red Sox liked him enough to give up two top 50 prospects.  As fans, Crochet didnt have the track record we like, but that’s not the same as being unknown…

Maybe saying "Much" was unknown should have been "some was unknown." especially the durability and IP level.

[moonslav59]

1 hour ago, Hugh2 said:

No it is an answer, I definitively believe exactly what I said.  Just because you don't have an extension in place when you trade a guy doesn't mean you haven't had conversations about what each side wants, or even have a framework. 

 

My question was when was the last time a deal was made depending on a deal being made.

You answered with  a good point, but it did not answer my specific question.

[moonslav59]

1 hour ago, Hugh2 said:

It's funny you keep using NYM as an example of paying guy and exclude the LAD paying money to sign guys.  The LAD just won back to back world series.  

Pay premium players!

I mentioned LAD a few times. I'm trying to be brief, and someone kept saying no way JH "Out bids the Mets."

[moonslav59]

1 hour ago, Hugh2 said:

Is there any precedent for this in baseball?

In the last 10 years about the same as trade & sign agreements.

[moonslav59]

Skubal is clearly the best and just turned 29. JH HAS to sign him before he turns 30, or it's a no-go.

[Hugh2]

3 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

My question was when was the last time a deal was made depending on a deal being made.

You answered with  a good point, but it did not answer my specific question.

I asked the same question, as far as I am concerned I can't recall deals being made like that. 

What I"m saying is these teams KNOW what a players demands are.  THey have relationships with other teams and agents.  They have a pretty darn good ideal what they're looking for.  They should be able to tell how good a chance of extending him before they pull the trigger. 

[moonslav59]

3 minutes ago, Hugh2 said:

I asked the same question, as far as I am concerned I can't recall deals being made like that. 

What I"m saying is these teams KNOW what a players demands are.  THey have relationships with other teams and agents.  They have a pretty darn good ideal what they're looking for.  They should be able to tell how good a chance of extending him before they pull the trigger. 

Way back in the day, I recall deals like that being made. A timetable was part of the deal, and the other team had a few days to extend or the deal was cancelled. I was just musing about when the last time that was and kinda wondering why they don't do that anymore.

Someone mentioned the Roy Halladay deal, and I think the Johan Santana and Miggy deals were like that, too.

The Lindor deal was not one like this, but I think many felt a framework was agreed on before the deal was signed. That was 2021.

[Hugh2]

13 hours ago, moonslav59 said:

Way back in the day, I recall deals like that being made. A timetable was part of the deal, and the other team had a few days to extend or the deal was cancelled. I was just musing about when the last time that was and kinda wondering why they don't do that anymore.

Someone mentioned the Roy Halladay deal, and I think the Johan Santana and Miggy deals were like that, too.

The Lindor deal was not one like this, but I think many felt a framework was agreed on before the deal was signed. That was 2021.

This is a good point, but I'm not exclusively talking about a negotiating window.  And look, perhaps Skubal is just a pipe dream and probably is but its' the principal of it.  The Sox have their own internal evaluation system and maybe there's another pitcher out there who is young and they think is going to be an elite pitcher going forward who they can sign for Crochet money.  IDK who that is.  But if you believe in a guy and you want to pay X dollars and they want to make Y and the gap is small......you can take the risk of aquiring them knowing that you should be able to work out a deal with them. 

Maybe the Red Sox think SKubal is the best pitcher on the planet and 400M is worth it, maybe 400M is the price Skubal is asking for as a starting point and would actually settle at 350.  But I believe these teams know what players want, and should have a pretty damn good ideal what their odds are of signing them to an extension when trading them.  I don't believe ANY player is unsignable for the right price.  

Obviously, some teams do this poorly and fail to sign a player.  A prime example of this is the New York Yankees trading for one year of Juan Soto.  There is risk, you have to be willing to assume risk but you can take calculated risks.  I wonder if the Yankees knew SOtos numbers and just didn't care or if that number changed when he got to NY.  I don't know. 

What I do know is the Sox need starting pitching. 

[moonslav59]

6 hours ago, Hugh2 said:

This is a good point, but I'm not exclusively talking about a negotiating window.  And look, perhaps Skubal is just a pipe dream and probably is but its' the principal of it.  The Sox have their own internal evaluation system and maybe there's another pitcher out there who is young and they think is going to be an elite pitcher going forward who they can sign for Crochet money.  IDK who that is.  But if you believe in a guy and you want to pay X dollars and they want to make Y and the gap is small......you can take the risk of aquiring them knowing that you should be able to work out a deal with them. 

Maybe the Red Sox think SKubal is the best pitcher on the planet and 400M is worth it, maybe 400M is the price Skubal is asking for as a starting point and would actually settle at 350.  But I believe these teams know what players want, and should have a pretty damn good ideal what their odds are of signing them to an extension when trading them.  I don't believe ANY player is unsignable for the right price.  

Obviously, some teams do this poorly and fail to sign a player.  A prime example of this is the New York Yankees trading for one year of Juan Soto.  There is risk, you have to be willing to assume risk but you can take calculated risks.  I wonder if the Yankees knew SOtos numbers and just didn't care or if that number changed when he got to NY.  I don't know. 

What I do know is the Sox need starting pitching. 

I understand your points, fully. They make sense and have merit. I just have so much distrust that JH will fork over the money needed to extend Skubal, that I am not willing to risk handing away several 3-5 year players for one, one-year player.

[Larry Cook]

2 hours ago, moonslav59 said:

I understand your points, fully. They make sense and have merit. I just have so much distrust that JH will fork over the money needed to extend Skubal, that I am not willing to risk handing away several 3-5 year players for one, one-year player.

We took that gamble with crochet and won! 

[drewski6]

39 minutes ago, Larry Cook said:

We took that gamble with crochet and won! 

He had 2 years left which matters a lot vs Skubals one year left.  You trade for Skubal and you need to fork over 400m and we'll have no money for offense.

[drewski6]

Plus Skubal is not as good as people make him out to be.  Hes the best pitcher in AL, but only a tick above Crochet. He aint like prime Pedro.

[drewski6]

SKubal is vulverable the third time through the order just like any pitcher in todays era.  His 6.5 WAR is not Maddux-esque or even close. Its just one of hte ways the game has changed. Pitchers are asked to do less. All of them, including SKubal and Crochet.

Skubal is 66% of Maddux. Thats very good.  But the era of the 8-10 WAR pitcher is dead.

Build through your offense.

[drewski6]

Having an elite pitcher in 2025 is like having an elite big man in basketball. Aint what it use to be. Game has changed.

[Hitch]

5 minutes ago, drewski6 said:

Having an elite pitcher in 2025 is like having an elite big man in basketball. Aint what it use to be. Game has changed.

And yet having an elite pitcher just won the Dodgers the WS.

[drewski6]

18 minutes ago, Hitch said:

And yet having an elite pitcher just won the Dodgers the WS.

His 3 ER in 2.1 IP rally won it for them.

[Hitch]

6 minutes ago, drewski6 said:

His 3 ER in 2.1 IP rally won it for them.

That World Series MVP must have just been for a laugh.