Article: The Red Sox Beat Themselves in the Wild Card Round

[moonslav59]

2 minutes ago, Old Red said:

And that’s why he wasn’t traded, and that’s why we will Never know if Raffy’s bat would have made a difference especially in Yankee Stadium in the postseason.

Wait, he wasn't traded?

[mvp 78]

50 minutes ago, Old Red said:

I think Bregman lost some range after getting injured, and Story wore down as the season wound down.

Bregman did not look very comfortable at 3b to start the year. 

[mvp 78]

25 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

The idea was to play him at 1B, if he stayed.

Casas was already a bad 1b. Masa was already at DH. Brezzz needed to move one of them in the offseason and then communicate to Devers that he's going to spend the rest of his career at 1b. He'd have months to get ready. The transition would have been much easier on him if it was worked on during the offseason IMO. 

Maybe all along he wanted to trade Devers anyway? It wasn't his extension TBH. 

[Old Red]

2 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

Bregman did not look very comfortable at 3b to start the year. 

Do you think Brez playing 3B was Brez idea? Cora, or both?

[Old Red]

5 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

Wait, he wasn't traded?

No he wasn’t traded, and I certainly couldn’t have made a keying error that is now fixed.

[Old Red]

4 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

Casas was already a bad 1b. Masa was already at DH. Brezzz needed to move one of them in the offseason and then communicate to Devers that he's going to spend the rest of his career at 1b. He'd have months to get ready. The transition would have been much easier on him if it was worked on during the offseason IMO. 

Maybe all along he wanted to trade Devers anyway? It wasn't his extension TBH. 

It was reported that the Red Sox were trying to unload Casas, and Masa to Seattle, but Seattle wouldn’t bite, and Brez didn’t have a plan B until the Raffy situation blew up.

[mvp 78]

8 minutes ago, Old Red said:

Do you think Brez playing 3B was Brez idea? Cora, or both?

They originally said Bregman was going to be signed to play 2b. I think that was just smokescreen to give them time to smooth things over with Raffy. He never ended up taking practice at 2b in ST. They really bungled it. Never figured out their plan.

[Old Red]

1 minute ago, mvp 78 said:

They originally said Bregman was going to be signed to play 2b. I think that was just smokescreen to give them time to smooth things over with Raffy. He never ended up taking practice at 2b in ST. They really bungled it. Never figured out their plan.

You could be right, but it wouldn’t surprise me if Cora would have kept Raffy at 3B, and played Bregman at 2B, but Brez said no. At any rate it could have been handled differently and better.

[moonslav59]

3 hours ago, mvp 78 said:

Casas was already a bad 1b. Masa was already at DH. Brezzz needed to move one of them in the offseason and then communicate to Devers that he's going to spend the rest of his career at 1b. He'd have months to get ready. The transition would have been much easier on him if it was worked on during the offseason IMO. 

Maybe all along he wanted to trade Devers anyway? It wasn't his extension TBH. 

I said that for years. Devers to 1B, Casas to DH. Yoshida to another team, if possible.

If Devers stayed in BOS, it might have been at 1B during the Yankee series.

[Bellhorn04]

1 minute ago, moonslav59 said:

I said that for years. Devers to 1B, Casas to DH. Yoshida to another team, if possible.

If Devers stayed in BOS, it might have been at 1B during the Yankee series.

Devers showed he wasn't a team player.  It was for the best anyway.

[moonslav59]

4 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

Devers showed he wasn't a team player.  It was for the best anyway.

I've come to believe that, too.

I'll still think it's a bad trade, if we don't spend the "money saved."

[Old Red]

10 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

Devers showed he wasn't a team player.  It was for the best anyway.

I guess Cora isn’t a Team manager then since he never told Raffy to go to 1B, and said he wasn’t going to.🤫

[notin]

5 hours ago, Old Red said:

Do you think Brez playing 3B was Brez idea? Cora, or both?

Reportedly Cora wanted him at 2b, Bregman was compliant, but Breslow wanted Alex at 3b…

[notin]

2 hours ago, Old Red said:

I guess Cora isn’t a Team manager then since he never told Raffy to go to 1B, and said he wasn’t going to.🤫

Cora played the “Henry loves me and wanted me doing your job but I turned him down” card…

[moonslav59]

Just now, notin said:

Reportedly Cora wanted him at 2b, Bregman was compliant, but Breslow wanted Alex at 3b…

Good thing Brez won on that one.

[notin]

Just now, moonslav59 said:

Good thing Brez won on that one.

It wasn’t a bad idea.  But when Casas got hurt, Devers launched into full blown Me Me Me Mode…

[Old Red]

3 minutes ago, notin said:

Cora played the “Henry loves me and wanted me doing your job but I turned him down” card…

🙈🤭👍.

[moonslav59]

1 minute ago, notin said:

It wasn’t a bad idea.  But when Casas got hurt, Devers launched into full blown Me Me Me Mode…

The plan should have gone further from day one.

DH Casas

1B Devers

3B Bregman

No "DH for life" promises to Devers.

No "Making me play every position," from Devers' mouth.

I'm still convinced nobody can be a worse defensive 1Bman than Casas, so just hand Devers the job, day one. Besides, he said he wanted to "stay on the field," so let him... at 1B.

Casas is a fragile China Doll, so DH'ing made sense, too, although he'd still find a way to get hurt just swinging a bat or running to 1B, so there is that.

[mvp 78]

13 hours ago, notin said:

Reportedly Cora wanted him at 2b, Bregman was compliant, but Breslow wanted Alex at 3b…

How was Bregman compliant? He never went to 2b? 

[mvp 78]

12 hours ago, moonslav59 said:

The plan should have gone further from day one.

DH Casas

1B Devers

3B Bregman

No "DH for life" promises to Devers.

No "Making me play every position," from Devers' mouth.

I'm still convinced nobody can be a worse defensive 1Bman than Casas, so just hand Devers the job, day one. Besides, he said he wanted to "stay on the field," so let him... at 1B.

Casas is a fragile China Doll, so DH'ing made sense, too, although he'd still find a way to get hurt just swinging a bat or running to 1B, so there is that.

Send Cora to DR with a 1b mitt and have him hang out with Devers to smooth it over. That's all they had to do. It's just a FO that doesn't communicate well. It'll work out fine for some situations, but bite them in others. 

[Maxbialystock]

21 hours ago, mvp 78 said:

Casas was already a bad 1b. Masa was already at DH. Brezzz needed to move one of them in the offseason and then communicate to Devers that he's going to spend the rest of his career at 1b. He'd have months to get ready. The transition would have been much easier on him if it was worked on during the offseason IMO. 

Maybe all along he wanted to trade Devers anyway? It wasn't his extension TBH. 

Both good points.  We know Devers was excellent as the DH, OPS .905, and not missing a single game.  My suspicion is that Cora was fine with that arrangement.  As you say, the time to move him to 1b was after this season, not during it.  I agree with Old Red that Devers bat would have been useful to the Sox, especially in Sept and the postseason.  Breslow now says one thing he needs to get this offseason is a good bat.  

That said, it's also clear that Yoshida and Ref were both used primarily as DH's this season because Cora already had 3 good outfielders in Duran, Rafaela, and Abreu and then added a fourth, Anthony.  

If you are Breslow, it's intolerable to be paying three guys to DH.  So, when Casas was injured, he made a big deal about moving Devers to 1b.  Devers reacted badly, but he was right that he had been jacked around from 3b to DH to 1b in just 3 months.  

Plus this tidbit.  Devers value to the Sox is basically his WAR for each season.  In 9 seasons with the Sox his highest WAR for a season was 4.4 in 2022.  In just 73 games as a DH for the Sox this year, his WAR was 2.3.   Had he sustained that for the remaining  89 games, his WAR for the season--as solely a DH--would have been his best ever.  And don't forget that WAR subtracts points for DH's because they contribute nothing to the defense.  

And another tidbit.  Like everyone else, I could not praise Bregman enough as the new gold glove 3d baseman, a righty bat (think green monster) with a career OPS of .846. Plus he was a positive influence in the dugout and the locker room.  Worth every bit of $40M--sign him up for 3 more years.  His WAR this year was 3.5, which almost makes Devers $35M--for a WAR of maybe 4.7--look almost like a bargain.  

I hasten to add that the real strength of the Sox this season was the pitching, with or without Bregman or Devers or Anthony or whoever.  

 

[Bellhorn04]

18 hours ago, Old Red said:

I guess Cora isn’t a Team manager then since he never told Raffy to go to 1B, and said he wasn’t going to.🤫

Cora was trying to keep Raffy half-happy, moving him to DH but not to 1B.  Did Cora play it right and Breslow screw it up?  Honestly I have no idea.  But I think in the final analysis they did the right thing trading him.  Having an unhappy player you owe close to $300 million is usually a problem.

[Bellhorn04]

2 hours ago, mvp 78 said:

How was Bregman compliant? He never went to 2b? 

But he would only be non-compliant if he was asked to play 2B and refused.

[moonslav59]

2 hours ago, mvp 78 said:

Send Cora to DR with a 1b mitt and have him hang out with Devers to smooth it over. That's all they had to do. It's just a FO that doesn't communicate well. It'll work out fine for some situations, but bite them in others. 

Agreed. I'm not hanging this all on Cora for not doing it. I'm not sure of Brez told him to, or not.

This was a serious ding on management, for sure. (Devers was not blameless, either. His willingness to play 1B w SFG exposed that.)

[mvp 78]

24 minutes ago, Maxbialystock said:

And another tidbit.  Like everyone else, I could not praise Bregman enough as the new gold glove 3d baseman, a righty bat (think green monster) with a career OPS of .846. Plus he was a positive influence in the dugout and the locker room.  Worth every bit of $40M--sign him up for 3 more years.  His WAR this year was 3.5, which almost makes Devers $35M--for a WAR of maybe 4.7--look almost like a bargain.  

He left that GG behind in HOU.

[mvp 78]

1 minute ago, moonslav59 said:

Agreed. I'm not hanging this all on Cora for not doing it. I'm not sure of Brez told him to, or not.

This was a serious ding on management, for sure. (Devers was not blameless, either. His willingness to play 1B w SFG exposed that.)

Enough blame to go around. I understand that Devers didn't want to go out during the season at 1b and be embarrassed, but c'mon man...

[mvp 78]

8 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

But he would only be non-compliant if he was asked to play 2B and refused.

It's just weird to mention 2b and follow it up with Bregman being compliant even though he didn't even practice one rep at 2b. 🫠

[mvp 78]

10 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

Cora was trying to keep Raffy half-happy, moving him to DH but not to 1B.  Did Cora play it right and Breslow screw it up?  Honestly I have no idea.  But I think in the final analysis they did the right thing trading him.  Having an unhappy player you owe close to $300 million is usually a problem.

All 5 of them messed up (Brezzz, Cora, Henry, Raffy, Sam). Raffy ended up being unhappy. Fans are happy with him in SF. 

[moonslav59]

40 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

Enough blame to go around. I understand that Devers didn't want to go out during the season at 1b and be embarrassed, but c'mon man...

I am near the bottom of the list on those who play the blame game.

I defended Devers and spoke to the language and cultural barriers. If you think he's totally blameless, fine.

 

[mvp 78]

4 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

I am near the bottom of the list on those who play the blame game.

I defended Devers and spoke to the language and cultural barriers. If you think he's totally blameless, fine.

 

Who said he's blameless?