Red Sox (May) vs Athletics (Springs): 9/9/25, 10:05pm

[Maxbialystock]

4 minutes ago, drewski6 said:

Not at all what I said

Haven't you both said Breslow failed to get a good starter on or before July 31?

 

[FredLynn]

4 minutes ago, Maxbialystock said:

COULDA, WOULDA, SHOULDA.  You have just said Breslow is a failure for not producing the only dominant Sox pitching staff ever in his 2d year as CBO.  

No, I said Breslow failed to do his job at the TD. Try reading what I wrote. And he did fail-by his own admission. It was widely acknowledged that he failed at the time. Nothing has changed.

[FredLynn]

10 minutes ago, drewski6 said:

Not at all what I said

Max either doesn’t understand English sometimes or he deliberately misquotes other posters to support his misguided positions. Not sure which it is.

[moonslav59]

Part of the issue with trying to make trades at the deadline, is everyone wants a guy(s) better than the one Brez offered. We have a lot of talent on the farm, and maybe GMs thought the deserved better, because we have better, where other teams do not. 

Or, other teams have 1-2 guys better, but all they have are 1-2, so they cling to their pair.

Until I see firm offers made, I'm withholding judgement, and we may never know for sure offers out their.

Tolle plus others for Ryan scares me. I was one throwing Early's name around with Duran or Abreu, and maybe that would have been a bad idea trading him.

Brez got us Lowe and Matz at or after the deadline. He missed on May, but that ended up forcing Tolle and Early to get a look-see. Maybe they do better than Ryan or keller have and will do since the deadline. Maybe not.

This site is famous for hindsight judgements, which is normal, but why is the focus only on May for some? Matz and Lowe have more than made up for May's 3 bad starts in 5 outings. 

Newcomb had 3 of 5 bad starts.

Even Dobbins had 5 of 11 starts that were bad. That's not much better than 3 out of 5.

Houck had 6 of 9 bad starts.

We are 2-8 in Fitts starts.

Joe Ryan has a 5.05 ERA since the deadline and has 3 bad starts in 7. 

[moonslav59]

6 minutes ago, FredLynn said:

No, I said Breslow failed to do his job at the TD. Try reading what I wrote. And he did fail-by his own admission. It was widely acknowledged that he failed at the time. Nothing has changed.

Many wondered if Dave Roberts was enough. Did the scorecard change afterwards?

Was Nate viewed as a coup, at the time?

So, May + Matz+ Lowe has not been better than we expected from these 3?

Nothing has changed?

[mvp 78]

21 minutes ago, SPLENDIDSPLINTER said:

Breslow failed because he couldn't obtain a #2 starter? If that's the case so did every other GM of a contending team.

That's not MY opinion. I think they just needed better 4/5 options. I didn't think they should have wasted their time trying to go for Ryan at all.

[drewski6]

9 minutes ago, FredLynn said:

Max either doesn’t understand English sometimes or he deliberately misquotes other posters to support his misguided positions. Not sure which it is.

You and I arent even saying the same thing.  You seem to believe (and apologies if I am off) that the lack of pitching talent at the deadline went ultimately unaddressed and remains an issue

I think we have enough pitching to win the WS right now

But what we do agree , is that Breslow himself called his own deadline a failure.  And he said that it wasnt due to not wanting to overpay because he flat said he tried to overpay but nobody wants any of our players

He certainly did NOT say that he trusted the guys in-house or in the system. He did not say that he wasnt willing to part with too much. He did not give the team a ringing endorsement.  

He just said that his hands was tied because nobody in our organization has any trade value to these other GMs.  It was pouty and sour grapes.  I cant trade because all the other GMs whine, whine, whine.  He was defiant and emotional when he said these nutty things. But probably coming from a place of being unable to take accountability that the problem is him. Not our guys. Not him trying to get the best deal (which may have been Danny Ainges problem) not him overrating his own guys (which may have been Chaims problem).  BUt his problem seems to be, to me, he just cant keep people on the phone. And it doesnt surprise me. I wouldnt want to be on the phone with him.  Hes a stiff.

So the deal didnt get made and we are better off for it. Because now Tolle and Early are shining

[mvp 78]

4 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

Part of the issue with trying to make trades at the deadline, is everyone wants a guy(s) better than the one Brez offered. We have a lot of talent on the farm, and maybe GMs thought the deserved better, because we have better, where other teams do not. 

Or, other teams have 1-2 guys better, but all they have are 1-2, so they cling to their pair.

Until I see firm offers made, I'm withholding judgement, and we may never know for sure offers out their.

Tolle plus others for Ryan scares me. I was one throwing Early's name around with Duran or Abreu, and maybe that would have been a bad idea trading him.

Brez got us Lowe and Matz at or after the deadline. He missed on May, but that ended up forcing Tolle and Early to get a look-see. Maybe they do better than Ryan or keller have and will do since the deadline. Maybe not.

This site is famous for hindsight judgements, which is normal, but why is the focus only on May for some? Matz and Lowe have more than made up for May's 3 bad starts in 5 outings. 

Newcomb had 3 of 5 bad starts.

Even Dobbins had 5 of 11 starts that were bad. That's not much better than 3 out of 5.

Houck had 6 of 9 bad starts.

We are 2-8 in Fitts starts.

Joe Ryan has a 5.05 ERA since the deadline and has 3 bad starts in 7. 

Are you really giving Breslow credit for obtaining Lowe off the waiver wire? 

[mvp 78]

2 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

Many wondered if Dave Roberts was enough. Did the scorecard change afterwards?

Was Nate viewed as a coup, at the time?

So, May + Matz+ Lowe has not been better than we expected from these 3?

Nothing has changed?

Roberts wasn't the only acquisition that deadline... 

Going into the playoffs, he wasn't even listed in top 2 of importance. 

[mvp 78]

2 minutes ago, drewski6 said:

He just said that his hands was tied because nobody in our organization has any trade value to these other GMs.  

That's not really what he said. What he said was that other teams were looking to trade for bats (Sox don't really have any in the org that are close to being ready) and that they value their pitchers more highly than outside evaluators. With what we've seen from Tolle and Early, maybe they should hold onto these young arms? 

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

17 minutes ago, drewski6 said:

Guys, its Breslow who said he didnt get enough at the deadline.  He then crossed his arms and pouted that nobody was going to give him credit for trying.

He then said that he tried to trade a long list of people, a list that included names that would make fans uncomfortable.  He said he was willing to part with anybody and offered sooo many names, but no other GMs had any interest in any of our players/prospects

Breslows words.  

People are jumping for joy about the young pitching kicking butt, and I am too.  But Breslow tried to do more, and offered at least some of the names that are now kicking butt.  So it may have worked out for the long term, even though , I think its a short term failure (more so lack of bats than arms, I think our pitching exceeds our hitting) because I think we are really good but are 2 solid bats short of being a contender.

But its not the end of the world because we are most likely going to get in, and a few bats can carry you once you are in, and even if we dont make a deep run, we are set up very well for next year

But some of you are giving Breslow wayyyy too much credit.  Hes a pouty panda who needs his dipey changed

Two bats short of being a contender? Damn, I could swear looking at the standings that the Sox are a contender.

You must be thinking of Marlon Brando.

[drewski6]

Breslows lack of being able to close a deal worked out probably sets up better going forward.  But dont act like he was some great visionary who trusted the guys in house. Or that he had a line in the sand, and was some sage/wise GM who had a firm grasp on value.

None of that is true. What is true is that Breslow couldnt do more at the deadline because he couldnt close deals.  Hes just not a closer.  Not as a GM, and he wasnt one as a pitcher either.  I have my doubt he can close with the ladies because a silver tongue, this stiff does not have.

[drewski6]

1 minute ago, mvp 78 said:

That's not really what he said. What he said was that other teams were looking to trade for bats (Sox don't really have any in the org that are close to being ready) and that they value their pitchers more highly than outside evaluators. With what we've seen from Tolle and Early, maybe they should hold onto these young arms? 

He said "other teams have to want your players. I tried trading so many guys, guys whose name would make you (the panel) uncomfortable. But nobody really wanted our guys"

It could have been more they preferred other names than our dudes had 0 value.

[drewski6]

2 minutes ago, SPLENDIDSPLINTER said:

Two bats short of being a contender? Damn, I could swear looking at the standings that the Sox are a contender.

You must be thinking of Marlon Brando.

I mean a WS contender, but those bats may come.  A couple more would have given a bit more leeway but they may come from RA making a surprise return, or Bregman heating up, or Abreu coming back. But right now, I dont feel that we are in the conversation for champ, but Im not ruling it out.

[drewski6]

Im not sure where the allegiances are in this royal rumble.  But Im ducking chair shots left and right.

[Bellhorn04]

6 minutes ago, drewski6 said:

None of that is true. What is true is that Breslow couldnt do more at the deadline because he couldnt close deals.  Hes just not a closer.  Not as a GM, and he wasnt one as a pitcher either.  I have my doubt he can close with the ladies because a silver tongue, this stiff does not have.

Disagree somewhat vehemently.  He has closed deals with Crochet, Anthony, Bregman, Chapman, Bello and  Rafaela, all excellent deals. 

 

 

 

[drewski6]

1 hour ago, Maxbialystock said:

Buehler had 7 quality starts and May 2--and the Sox have the 2d most quality starts in MLB (and the most in the AL).  Crochet, Bello, and Giolito--2 of whom Breslow brought in--are the best top 3 starters for the Sox in a long time.

And please don't give me that "failure" to get a good 4 and a good 5 starter stuff when we both know that in years past the Sox routinely had to use a reliever to start.  Plus right now I kind of like Tolle and Early.  The Sox have now gone through 13 starters this season.  

See, I agree with you. My positions are weird I know.

I have 0 beef with the current staff and I do not want to spend any money on pitching in the offseason.  I love our SP.  I love we resigned Chapman. I love this team.

And I know that your tune hasnt changed. Mine has.  I wanted pitching at the deadline, and now Im glad we didnt get it. Im very happy w Tolle and Early go-forward.  But Breslow wanted more pitching too, is my only disagreement to your posts.  Its very possible to me that you had a better sense of the in-house candidates then Breslow did.  Because he never said or implied that he thought we didnt need more pitching (than he got). You can talk about the results, and thats fair but thats not relevant to the fact that Breslow wanted more pitching than he got. And he tried to get it and fell short. ANd I agree that its awesome that he did.  But I disagree that he should get all this credit for failing even if it turned out well. 

[Cameron Tran]

26 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

Part of the issue with trying to make trades at the deadline, is everyone wants a guy(s) better than the one Brez offered. We have a lot of talent on the farm, and maybe GMs thought the deserved better, because we have better, where other teams do not. 

Or, other teams have 1-2 guys better, but all they have are 1-2, so they cling to their pair.

Until I see firm offers made, I'm withholding judgement, and we may never know for sure offers out their.

Tolle plus others for Ryan scares me. I was one throwing Early's name around with Duran or Abreu, and maybe that would have been a bad idea trading him.

Brez got us Lowe and Matz at or after the deadline. He missed on May, but that ended up forcing Tolle and Early to get a look-see. Maybe they do better than Ryan or keller have and will do since the deadline. Maybe not.

This site is famous for hindsight judgements, which is normal, but why is the focus only on May for some? Matz and Lowe have more than made up for May's 3 bad starts in 5 outings. 

Newcomb had 3 of 5 bad starts.

Even Dobbins had 5 of 11 starts that were bad. That's not much better than 3 out of 5.

Houck had 6 of 9 bad starts.

We are 2-8 in Fitts starts.

Joe Ryan has a 5.05 ERA since the deadline and has 3 bad starts in 7. 

this was definitely a sellers deadline. Teams were asking for a lot and Breslow didn't want to part with the top pitching arms. Campbell was probably our best trade piece but I'm not sure many people wanted that contract. Breslow had a solid deadline. I'm glad we didn't overpay and get rid of Tolle or Early (or JH Garcia for that matter).

[Cameron Tran]

6 minutes ago, drewski6 said:

See, I agree with you. My positions are weird I know.

I have 0 beef with the current staff and I do not want to spend any money on pitching in the offseason.  I love our SP.  I love we resigned Chapman. I love this team.

And I know that your tune hasnt changed. Mine has.  I wanted pitching at the deadline, and now Im glad we didnt get it. Im very happy w Tolle and Early go-forward.  But Breslow wanted more pitching too, is my only disagreement to your posts.  Its very possible to me that you had a better sense of the in-house candidates then Breslow did.  Because he never said or implied that he thought we didnt need more pitching (than he got). You can talk about the results, and thats fair but thats not relevant to the fact that Breslow wanted more pitching than he got. And he tried to get it and fell short. ANd I agree that its awesome that he did.  But I disagree that he should get all this credit for failing even if it turned out well. 

To breslow's credit none of the top arms got traded at the deadline. Sandy, Gallen, Keller and Ryan all stayed put. The problem is he just talks alot and really doesn't say the right things just yet. That whole "uncomfortably aggressive" thing seemed like a way to avoid blame.  

[Cameron Tran]

16 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

Disagree somewhat vehemently.  He has closed deals with Crochet, Anthony, Bregman, Chapman, Bello and  Rafaela, all excellent deals. 

 

 

 

Agree here, can't forget Breslow is a first time GM. He's smart and seems to know how Boston is supposed to operate but there's still a learning curve. I have faith in him. Really great FA last year, good draft this year. Extending young players is what good teams do (MIL with Chourio, SDP with Merril). He did a good job of pivoting and committing to Anthony as the "face of the franchise" after trading Devers

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

35 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

That's not MY opinion. I think they just needed better 4/5 options. I didn't think they should have wasted their time trying to go for Ryan at all.

I didn't imply it was your opinion. What I did imply was none of the GM's wanted to grossly over pay for starting pitching including Brez.

[Cameron Tran]

Narvaez, Crochet, Bregman, Lowe, Matz, Chapman, Wilson, Tolle, Giolito and Slaten are all successes. Wished we kept Pivetta, wish we got another arm at the deadline, wish the Devers situation had unfolded differently, but overall Breslow did a great job complimenting the young core Bloom had been building.

[Cameron Tran]

if it makes anyone feel better Merril Kelly just gave up to HR to the Brewers in the top of the first!!

[Bellhorn04]

34 minutes ago, Cameron Tran said:

if it makes anyone feel better Merril Kelly just gave up to HR to the Brewers in the top of the first!!

Spitewatching at it's finest! 🙂

[moonslav59]

1 hour ago, Cameron Tran said:

Narvaez, Crochet, Bregman, Lowe, Matz, Chapman, Wilson, Tolle, Giolito and Slaten are all successes. Wished we kept Pivetta, wish we got another arm at the deadline, wish the Devers situation had unfolded differently, but overall Breslow did a great job complimenting the young core Bloom had been building.

...and Burdi with his 0.00 ERA over 5.1 IP!

If you are counting 2024 additions like Slaten and Gio, then count Weissert, Fitts, Criswell, too. (O'Neal was nice but is gone, now.)

[Cameron Tran]

Just now, moonslav59 said:

...and Burdi with his 0.00 ERA over 5.1 IP!

If you are counting 2024 additions like Slaten and Gio, then count Weissert, Fitts, Criswell, too. (O'Neal was nice but is gone, now.)

Yup! i kinda forgot they came in last year too. Kinda just went off the dome with that one. Shoutout Jovani Moran and Robert Stock as well. 

[moonslav59]

4 hours ago, Cameron Tran said:

Yup! i kinda forgot they came in last year too. Kinda just went off the dome with that one. Shoutout Jovani Moran and Robert Stock as well. 

There is still more to come, as Brez's draft picks, prospects traded for and IFA will start coming up, and hopefully be pluses.

We've all heard about the bad trades and signings, over and over. There have been a few, but way less than Bloom- not that he set the bar high.

The 26 is way better. The 40 is way better. The farm took a hit with the graduations of several prospects, but I still think it is strong. 

If you had to go back beyond the last couple years, when was the farm as strong as right now:

Tolle, Arias, Perales, Witherspoon, Jh Garcia, Valera, Early, Soto, Gonzales, Phillips, Eyanson, Fajardo, Taylor, Romero, Godbout and a bunch more?

Of course, when you look in hindsight at DD's early farm (mostly Ben's) that was highly regarded, it doesn't look so good, now.

 

[FredLynn]

6 hours ago, drewski6 said:

You and I arent even saying the same thing.  You seem to believe (and apologies if I am off) that the lack of pitching talent at the deadline went ultimately unaddressed and remains an issue

I think we have enough pitching to win the WS right now

But what we do agree , is that Breslow himself called his own deadline a failure.  And he said that it wasnt due to not wanting to overpay because he flat said he tried to overpay but nobody wants any of our players

He certainly did NOT say that he trusted the guys in-house or in the system. He did not say that he wasnt willing to part with too much. He did not give the team a ringing endorsement.  

He just said that his hands was tied because nobody in our organization has any trade value to these other GMs.  It was pouty and sour grapes.  I cant trade because all the other GMs whine, whine, whine.  He was defiant and emotional when he said these nutty things. But probably coming from a place of being unable to take accountability that the problem is him. Not our guys. Not him trying to get the best deal (which may have been Danny Ainges problem) not him overrating his own guys (which may have been Chaims problem).  BUt his problem seems to be, to me, he just cant keep people on the phone. And it doesnt surprise me. I wouldnt want to be on the phone with him.  Hes a stiff.

So the deal didnt get made and we are better off for it. Because now Tolle and Early are shining

The old adage “you can never have enough pitching” pertains here. Who is our #5 SP? Tolle? Early? Fact is if Breslow had done his job he would have successfully obtained a #2 SP every pitcher down the line gets moved down. That greatly improves the staff. There were also other needs that weren’t met. The bottom line is that for whatever reason he FAILED. 

[FredLynn]

6 hours ago, moonslav59 said:

Many wondered if Dave Roberts was enough. Did the scorecard change afterwards?

Was Nate viewed as a coup, at the time?

So, May + Matz+ Lowe has not been better than we expected from these 3?

Nothing has changed?

We needed quality players. We got a loser SP, a guy with a sub .230 BA before he got here and a low leverage RP. 
He failed. He admitted he failed. It’s widely known he failed.

[moonslav59]

1 hour ago, FredLynn said:

We needed quality players. We got a loser SP, a guy with a sub .230 BA before he got here and a low leverage RP. 
He failed. He admitted he failed. It’s widely known he failed.

I thought my OCD was bad!

LOL!