Are todays players "soft"

[Sox 42]

7 hours ago, Charlie Hoke said:

The travel schedule is heavier nowadays with much more cross-country travel, and there is benefit to giving the regulars some rest, while also keeping the bench players fresh with playing time.

In the old days, you carried a bullpen catcher like Ralph Houk in 1950 who started 1 game and appeared in 10.

Now the bullpen catcher is a non-roster player.

 

[Sox 42]

Admire you Charlie but flying on a charter jet and staying in a luxury hotel with meal money does not seem  like a hardship.  Ask us military flyers about our accommodations.

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

5 hours ago, Sox 42 said:

Admire you Charlie but flying on a charter jet and staying in a luxury hotel with meal money does not seem  like a hardship.  Ask us military flyers about our accommodations.

MLB players really have it tough. Hell, they're not even held accountable when they screw up.

I'm old enough to remember when managers were managers and not the players' best friend. Yes, I'm referring to you Alex.

[Bellhorn04]

14 hours ago, Sox 42 said:

Admire you Charlie but flying on a charter jet and staying in a luxury hotel with meal money does not seem  like a hardship.  Ask us military flyers about our accommodations.

The quality of the transportation and accommodations isn't really the issue.  It's still 6 months of travelling back and forth across the country while playing 162 games.  No one is saying these guys aren't well looked after.  It's just about the effects of all the travel on the body.   

[Bellhorn04]

9 hours ago, SPLENDIDSPLINTER said:

MLB players really have it tough. Hell, they're not even held accountable when they screw up.

I'm old enough to remember when managers were managers and not the players' best friend. Yes, I'm referring to you Alex.

Bring back Bobby V!  Or Farrell - he seemed like kind of a hard ass!

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

3 hours ago, Bellhorn04 said:

Bring back Bobby V!  Or Farrell - he seemed like kind of a hard ass!

The last hard ass manager the Sox had was Dick Williams. That's why YAZ asked Yawkey to have him fired.

[Bellhorn04]

6 minutes ago, SPLENDIDSPLINTER said:

The last hard ass manager the Sox had was Dick Williams. That's why YAZ asked Yawkey to have him fired.

I'm not sure there are any hard ass managers left in MLB with Girardi and Showalter gone.

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

Just now, Bellhorn04 said:

I'm not sure there are any hard ass managers left in MLB with Girardi and Showalter gone.

The days of hard ass managers appears to be over. Pampering the players is where baseball is now.

[Charlie Hoke]

On 7/25/2025 at 3:01 PM, Sox 42 said:

Admire you Charlie but flying on a charter jet and staying in a luxury hotel with meal money does not seem  like a hardship.  Ask us military flyers about our accommodations.

Don't forget the night clubbing and nightlife distractions in many more cities now then before when there weren't as many teams, and the teams were closer geographically and culturally.

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

Timely hitting by Duran.

[Kimmi]

I blame it on the participation trophies, of which my kids received several.  LOL

I know it's hard to compare today's players with players from the past, but I do think that current players are "babied" more than players from the past, not that they're necessarily softer.  Just look at starting pitchers.

[Bellhorn04]

16 minutes ago, Kimmi said:

I blame it on the participation trophies, of which my kids received several.  LOL

I know it's hard to compare today's players with players from the past, but I do think that current players are "babied" more than players from the past, not that they're necessarily softer.  Just look at starting pitchers.

Pitchers are not necessarily softer, but they are exponentially more susceptible to injury than in olden times.

[Kimmi]

3 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

Pitchers are not necessarily softer, but they are exponentially more susceptible to injury than in olden times.

Which leads to the oft-asked question of why.   Is it because they are trying to throw harder and trying to increase their spin rates?  Or is it because managers are being too cautious with them?

These days, pitchers are taken out of a game at the first sign of discomfort, probably rightly so.  I can't help but wonder, however, if pitchers in the past played through that kind of discomfort and came out no worse for wear.  

[mvp 78]

4 minutes ago, Kimmi said:

Which leads to the oft-asked question of why.   Is it because they are trying to throw harder and trying to increase their spin rates?  Or is it because managers are being too cautious with them?

These days, pitchers are taken out of a game at the first sign of discomfort, probably rightly so.  I can't help but wonder, however, if pitchers in the past played through that kind of discomfort and came out no worse for wear.  

Once Kerry Wood and Mark Prior lost their careers, I don't think we'll ever get back to the "just pitch through it" times. 

[dgalehouse]

They didn't have a lot of fancy injuries in the old days. They just said the guy had a "sore arm" .  

[Bellhorn04]

9 minutes ago, Kimmi said:

Which leads to the oft-asked question of why.   Is it because they are trying to throw harder and trying to increase their spin rates?  Or is it because managers are being too cautious with them?

It's empirical fact that pitchers throw with significantly more velocity and spin than in the past.

[mvp 78]

4 minutes ago, dgalehouse said:

They didn't have a lot of fancy injuries in the old days. They just said the guy had a "sore arm" .  

Dug too many ditches in the offseason. 

[Kimmi]

10 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

Once Kerry Wood and Mark Prior lost their careers, I don't think we'll ever get back to the "just pitch through it" times. 

I can fully understand why managers are overly cautious with their players.  I just really miss the days of starters pitching 7+ innings on a regular basis.  I know that the 3rd time through the order thing has a lot to do with that.

[Kimmi]

7 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

It's empirical fact that pitchers throw with significantly more velocity and spin than in the past.

I don't dispute that fact.  At the same time, it seems like the strengthening and conditioning of the arm/shoulder should be improved to offset some of the added stress on the arm/shoulder.

[dgalehouse]

Pitchers have always tried to throw as hard as they could. Today's pitchers do throw harder, but they are also bigger and stronger.  It won't happen, but baseball should take a hard look at the pitch clock as a factor in the epidemic of injuries. 

[illinoisredsox]

1 hour ago, Kimmi said:

Which leads to the oft-asked question of why.   Is it because they are trying to throw harder and trying to increase their spin rates?  Or is it because managers are being too cautious with them?

These days, pitchers are taken out of a game at the first sign of discomfort, probably rightly so.  I can't help but wonder, however, if pitchers in the past played through that kind of discomfort and came out no worse for wear.  

A few pitched through it and came out no worse for wear.  We remember those guys.  We don’t remember that most didn’t get through it and disappeared, never to be heard from again.

When Bruce Sutter had to retire after he blew his arm out, people kept telling him how sorry they were for him.  He responded with one of the classiest statements I’ve ever heard, something along the line of “Don’t feel sorry for me; I had 12 years.  Feel sorry for the kid in A ball who just blew his arm out and will never get the chance I got”

 

[Bellhorn04]

1 hour ago, dgalehouse said:

Pitchers have always tried to throw as hard as they could. Today's pitchers do throw harder, but they are also bigger and stronger.  It won't happen, but baseball should take a hard look at the pitch clock as a factor in the epidemic of injuries. 

The epidemic started long before the pitch clock.  Just Google the list of Tommy John surgeries.

It's possible the the pitch clock is making it worse, I have no expertise on the subject, that's for sure.  But it should show up in the number of injuries before and after they started using the clock. 

[Kimmi]

15 minutes ago, illinoisredsox said:

A few pitched through it and came out no worse for wear.  We remember those guys.  We don’t remember that most didn’t get through it and disappeared, never to be heard from again.

When Bruce Sutter had to retire after he blew his arm out, people kept telling him how sorry they were for him.  He responded with one of the classiest statements I’ve ever heard, something along the line of “Don’t feel sorry for me; I had 12 years.  Feel sorry for the kid in A ball who just blew his arm out and will never get the chance I got”

 

Fair point about the guys we remember versus the guys we don't.

I, too,  very much like Sutter's response.

[Bellhorn04]

1 hour ago, Kimmi said:

I don't dispute that fact.  At the same time, it seems like the strengthening and conditioning of the arm/shoulder should be improved to offset some of the added stress on the arm/shoulder.

I think it's agreed that the pitching motion is an unnatural one that puts unnatural stress on the arm.  And there's very little that can be done to strengthen the soft tissues that are the ones that rupture.

With all the science they have to draw on, they can't stop the endless parade to the surgery table.

[Bellhorn04]

Are there any starting pitchers left who have pitched a lot of innings (say 1,500 or more?) without at least one extended absence?

Jose Berrios?  Luis Castillo?

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

1 hour ago, Kimmi said:

Which leads to the oft-asked question of why.   Is it because they are trying to throw harder and trying to increase their spin rates?  Or is it because managers are being too cautious with them?

These days, pitchers are taken out of a game at the first sign of discomfort, probably rightly so.  I can't help but wonder, however, if pitchers in the past played through that kind of discomfort and came out no worse for wear.  

Those were the days of one year contracts. Players played through injuries to avoid a pay cut the following year.

[dgalehouse]

20 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

The epidemic started long before the pitch clock.  Just Google the list of Tommy John surgeries.

It's possible the the pitch clock is making it worse, I have no expertise on the subject, that's for sure.  But it should show up in the number of injuries before and after they started using the clock. 

I don't have the will to do any research on this. But I have never before noticed the huge amount of pitching injuries that I see these days. It is stunning. And most are not Tommy John surgeries. Just various injuries. 

[Brock Beauchamp]

On 7/24/2025 at 8:19 PM, Sox 42 said:

But don't they have trainers to make you do proper stretches and exercises?

These are billion-dollar franchises. Yes, they stretch.

[Brock Beauchamp]

7 minutes ago, dgalehouse said:

I don't have the will to do any research on this. But I have never before noticed the huge amount of pitching injuries that I see these days. It is stunning. And most are not Tommy John surgeries. Just various injuries. 

The human body isn't meant to throw a baseball 97mph repeatedly. There, that's the entire reason why pitcher injuries are so prevalent.

[Brock Beauchamp]

1 hour ago, dgalehouse said:

Pitchers have always tried to throw as hard as they could. Today's pitchers do throw harder, but they are also bigger and stronger.  It won't happen, but baseball should take a hard look at the pitch clock as a factor in the epidemic of injuries. 

This isn't even close to accurate. When I was growing up in the 80s, pitchers openly talked about the relief of the back of lineups, and how you could relax a bit against them.

But it's also more than just velocity. Movement and spin play just as big a role here. There's no such thing as a "get me over" pitch anymore, which guys threw all the time back in the day.

Because if you throw a "get me over" pitch in the modern game, even the #8 hitter will send the ball 400 feet. To succeed in this game now, you need to be max velo, max spin all the time. And that causes injuries to all but the most rubber-armed guys.