Are we good enough now?

[notin]

33 minutes ago, Kimmi said:

The Red Sox have the 4th best run differential in the AL at +68, behind the Yankees (+99), the Tigers (+81), and the Rangers (+72).  I think the Sox are a better team than some people give them credit for, and I don't think that our offense has hit as well as they are capable of doing.  

They are a good team, which why this was such a disappointing deadline…

[oldtimer]

On 7/30/2025 at 12:31 PM, FredLynn said:

Our chances of making a deep run in Oct are not good enough, not with bums like Boohler, Wong, Toro etc on the roster. We are not better than the teams I listed, and there are a lot of them. Better to try to obtain more talent for a run in 2027 or 2028 where our talent level is greater than those other guys so that we can compete with teams like the Dodgers, the Phillies, and the Cubs for a ring.

We have been competitive in the American league up to now. Other teams made a concerted effort to improve through  trades, we did not so we on paper are now less competitive. We needed a starter, relief pitchers, a first baseman with power and a backup catcher. We got some iffy relief help. I can't see how that improves our relative competitiveness against the better American league teams.

[Kimmi]

4 minutes ago, notin said:

They are a good team, which why this was such a disappointing deadline…

I can't really argue with that.  The only defense I have for Breslow is that we really don't know what other teams were asking him for.  I'd rather he make the moves that he did instead of grossly overpaying for a player that may or may not be the difference maker.

[moonslav59]

We are now relying on Toro to catch a second wind or K Campbell to do better at 1B than he did at 2B.

We are relying on Buehler to come back to even a shadow of what he used to be AND stay healthy.

We are now relying on Harrison or Dustin May to not suck as our 5th starter.

We cannot have any regression from Crochet, Gio, Bello, Chapman and most of our pen.

We need Bregman to stay over .900.

We need Rafaela to stay near .750 and others to hold their 2026 numbers.

We need Story to keep hitting like he has since early June.

We need about 15-20 things to go right or keep going right to be "good enough."

Other teams have hopes in newly acquired players and just keeping status quo with the ones they still have.

I'd say we are barely good enough to nab the last WC slot, but we need to stay ahead of the improved M's and Rangers. We might be able to pass the Yanks or maybe TOR, but not HOU or DET.

[sk7326]

1 hour ago, moonslav59 said:

For 5-6 other AL teams, yes.

I wish they did more - but we have also seen, over and over again, that team builders simply can't engineer teams to win pennants.  

[moonslav59]

We are not good enough to do any more than maybe sneak into the 2 or 3 WC slot.

Even if you believe in the "playoff crapshoot" philosophy, you have to admit, we'd have had a much better chance with Ryan or Keller plus a LH'd platoon 1Bman better than Toro.

[mvp 78]

6 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

We are not good enough to do any more than maybe sneak into the 2 or 3 WC slot.

Even if you believe in the "playoff crapshoot" philosophy, you have to admit, we'd have had a much better chance with Ryan or Keller plus a LH'd platoon 1Bman better than Toro.

Playoff crapshoot theory (6th seeds):

2022 - TBR loses in WC, PHI makes WS

2023 - TOR loses in WC, AZ makes WS

2024 - DET makes ALDS, NYM makes NLCS

[moonslav59]

1 minute ago, mvp 78 said:

Playoff crapshoot theory (6th seeds):

2022 - TBR loses in WC, PHI makes WS

2023 - TOR loses in WC, AZ makes WS

2024 - DET makes ALDS, NYM makes NLCS

We may not even make the 6th seed anyway. You haven't seemed very optimistic, lately, either.

If we do, we won't win a ring, just like other 6th seeds. Thanks for adding support to my point. 

[mvp 78]

47 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

We may not even make the 6th seed anyway. You haven't seemed very optimistic, lately, either.

If we do, we won't win a ring, just like other 6th seeds. Thanks for adding support to my point. 

I try not to be optimistic or pessimistic. I just go day by day. Sometimes I look at another team and say "wow, that team is on a bit of a roll and could be trouble" and boy people don't like that! I think this team is better than it has been since '21. It's still exhibiting some frustrating signs that kind of push down my beliefs that they could have a cinderella run (bad, dumb baseball that is played too often). 

I don't know, I just expect more out of the Red Sox than what we've seen lately. This team is good, but I expect a little more out of a contender and a CBO that says "we'll be buyers" and an ownership group that says the goal is to get to the playoffs. 

Sam was asked if Breslow had ownership's blessing to be big player's at the deadline and add salary. What happened? It's just all talk from this group and it just has beaten me down this year. 

[cp176]

15 hours ago, Kimmi said:

The Braves were very high on Grissom at one point.  Like you, I think he deserves a shot.

I guess just about everyone posting here would have liked to have seen more done to improve us.  Probably there could have been something more substantial.  I just think that the asking price would likely have been way too high.  I like our current team.  I’m going to continue to enjoy them.  I can see why everyone wanted Duran.  I’m glad that I still get to enjoy him in a Sox uniform.  The lack of a Grissom move still puzzles me.  Regardless of what he has faced for pitching, he has done everything that he could do.  

[moonslav59]

13 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

I try not to be optimistic or pessimistic. I just go day by day. Sometimes I look at another team and say "wow, that team is on a bit of a roll and could be trouble" and boy people don't like that! I think this team is better than it has been since '21. It's still exhibiting some frustrating signs that kind of push down my beliefs that they could have a cinderella run (bad, dumb baseball that is played too often). 

I don't know, I just expect more out of the Red Sox than what we've seen lately. This team is good, but I expect a little more out of a contender and a CBO that says "we'll be buyers" and an ownership group that says the goal is to get to the playWelloffs. 

Sam was asked if Breslow was had ownership's blessing to be big player's at the deadline and add salary. What happened? It's just all talk from this group and it just has beaten me down this year. 

Well said.

It wasn't that I did not like what you were saying about the streaking Rangers, it was my belief that you were being overly optimistic about their holes not being holes, going forward, but you were not affording Sox holes the same hopes.

The Rangers just improved via trades. I think they filled enough holes to be better than us, on paper- same with SEA. The Yanks seemingly fixed their biggest hole- the pen. DET & HOU put themselves out of the Sox reach. Only TOR failed to make major deadline gains, but we are 5 behind them. That's 6 teams that look better than us.

We still have a shot at beating one of the 6, but those odds fell, last night.

[moonslav59]

11 minutes ago, cp176 said:

I guess just about everyone posting here would have liked to have seen more done to improve us.  Probably there could have been something more substantial.  I just think that the asking price would likely have been way too high.  I like our current team.  I’m going to continue to enjoy them.  I can see why everyone wanted Duran.  I’m glad that I still get to enjoy him in a Sox uniform.  The lack of a Grissom move still puzzles me.  Regardless of what he has faced for pitching, he has done everything that he could do.  

Agreed.

Every move other AL contenders made look like overpays or gross overpays. It's what you need to do to keep pace with others who are improving.

This further highlights the need to take winter additions more seriously, knowing that waiting until the deadline is more costly and counterproductive for future outlooks.

[notin]

14 hours ago, oldtimer said:

We have been competitive in the American league up to now. Other teams made a concerted effort to improve through  trades, we did not so we on paper are now less competitive. We needed a starter, relief pitchers, a first baseman with power and a backup catcher. We got some iffy relief help. I can't see how that improves our relative competitiveness against the better American league teams.

Not competitive?

The Sox have the 4th best record in the AL.

I get the disappointment, but this was a good team on July 30th. It still is, but I think we all wanted to see some holes filled…

[notin]

14 hours ago, Kimmi said:

I can't really argue with that.  The only defense I have for Breslow is that we really don't know what other teams were asking him for.  I'd rather he make the moves that he did instead of grossly overpaying for a player that may or may not be the difference maker.

I would be surprised if the Twins didn’t ask for Roman Anthony for Ryan, and the counter argument that that is unrealistic is bunk.  Not likebthevTeins needed to deal Ryan; they control him until 2028.

Matz made sense, and Bloom clearly still has some fascination for Blaze Jordan.  But May is a disappointment, especially since the Sox traded away a better and more controllable SP (Priester) earlier this year, and I’m not sure if he paid more for May than he received for Priester…

[mvp 78]

11 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

Agreed.

Every move other AL contenders made look like overpays or gross overpays. It's what you need to do to keep pace with others who are improving.

This further highlights the need to take winter additions more seriously, knowing that waiting until the deadline is more costly and counterproductive for future outlooks.

The Sox grossly overpaid for May. 

[mvp 78]

1 minute ago, notin said:

I would be surprised if the Twins didn’t ask for Roman Anthony for Ryan, and the counter argument that that is unrealistic is bunk.  Not likebthevTeins needed to deal Ryan; they control him until 2028.

Matz made sense, and Bloom clearly still has some fascination for Blaze Jordan.  But May is a disappointment, especially since the Sox traded away a better and more controllable SP (Priester) earlier this year, and I’m not sure if he paid more for May than he received for Priester…

That Priester deal is ROUGH if you're trying to compete this year and suffer any pitcher injuries. 

The Devers trade for Hicks, Harrison, May and Bello now solely hinges on unused salary relief and Harrison. Kyle better bring it when he's called up soon. 

I think Breslow made some smart offseason moves this year, but his tenure has been a bit of a mixed bag to say the least. 

[moonslav59]

Just now, mvp 78 said:

The Sox grossly overpaid for May. 

I'm not high enough on Tibbs and Ehrhard to say "grossly," but as with all "buyer" trades at the deadline, it was an overpay. The Matz trade seems about the same, as I think we would have left Jordan unprotected from Rule 5 and lost him for nothing, anyway.

[moonslav59]

Just now, mvp 78 said:

That Priester deal is ROUGH if you're trying to compete this year and suffer any pitcher injuries. 

The Devers trade for Hicks, Harrison, May and Bello now solely hinges on unused salary relief and Harrison. Kyle better bring it when he's called up soon. 

I think Breslow made some smart offseason moves this year, but his tenure has been a bit of a mixed bag to say the least. 

Brez worked so hard to assemble a very deep rotation, even if many looked mediocre or had injury issues, then he trades one of the few who stayed healthy and or did not decline.

I have to say, it's hard to plan on losing 4-5 SP'ers, even if one was Sandoval.

Houck, Crawford, Dobbins, Winckowski (Gio missed a few starts & Newcomb was let go.)

[mvp 78]

8 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

I'm not high enough on Tibbs and Ehrhard to say "grossly," but as with all "buyer" trades at the deadline, it was an overpay. The Matz trade seems about the same, as I think we would have left Jordan unprotected from Rule 5 and lost him for nothing, anyway.

Just Tibbs for May would have been an overpay IMO. 

[mvp 78]

4 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

Brez worked so hard to assemble a very deep rotation, even if many looked mediocre or had injury issues, then he trades one of the few who stayed healthy and or did not decline.

I have to say, it's hard to plan on losing 4-5 SP'ers, even if one was Sandoval.

Houck, Crawford, Dobbins, Winckowski (Gio missed a few starts & Newcomb was let go.)

He traded it because he received VALUE. All he cares about is how the deal looks on the screen. It's not a holistic approach. 

[moonslav59]

3 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

Just Tibbs for May would have been an overpay IMO. 

I suppose that's true, but Ehrhard is a longshot.

[mvp 78]

3 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

I suppose that's true, but Ehrhard is a longshot.

He's a longshot to be a starter, but not a longshot to come up and provide value like Nate Eaton. Sox need guys like that rather than the Abraham Almontes of the world. 

[moonslav59]

2 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

He traded it because he received VALUE. All he cares about is how the deal looks on the screen. It's not a holistic approach. 

Well, you did say we were going too lopsided towards pitching, and this one was the other way.

YRod and Holobetz may just outshine Priester, in time. What really hurts is that Priester seems to be getting even better: 2.19 ERA/2.93 FIP in last 4 GS (6.1 IP per start.)

[moonslav59]

Just now, mvp 78 said:

He's a longshot to be a starter, but not a longshot to come up and provide value like Nate Eaton. Sox need guys like that rather than the Abraham Almonte's of the world. 

Including Nate Eaton over Ehrhard would have made it grossly. too?

Eaton is the textbook replacement player that can easily be obtained on the waiver wire at any given point in time.

[mvp 78]

1 minute ago, moonslav59 said:

Well, you did say we were going too lopsided towards pitching, and this one was the other way.

YRod and Holobetz may just outshine Priester, in time. What really hurts is that Priester seems to be getting even better: 2.19 ERA/2.93 FIP in last 4 GS (6.1 IP per start.)

It's not really the other way IMO.

Priester (P) for Holobetz (P), Rodriguez (OF), Phillips (P)

Breslow probably believed whoever they took with the Phillips pick would be as good as Priester eventually and they used it on a pitcher, not a hitter. 

[mvp 78]

1 minute ago, moonslav59 said:

Including Nate Eaton over Ehrhard would have made it grossly. too?

Eaton is the textbook replacement player that can easily be obtained on the waiver wire at any given point in time.

Nate Eaton is 28, 6 years older than Ehrhard. We already know his ceiling. 

[moonslav59]

7 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

It's not really the other way IMO.

Priester (P) for Holobetz (P), Rodriguez (OF), Phillips (P)

Breslow probably believed whoever they took with the Phillips pick would be as good as Priester eventually and they used it on a pitcher, not a hitter. 

I think Brez viewed YRod as the best bet to make an impact.

[moonslav59]

7 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

Nate Eaton is 28, 6 years older than Ehrhard. We already know his ceiling. 

You brought him up, not me. If that is who Ehrhard becomes, it's not changing the trade to "grossly."

True, Ehrhard has a higher ceiling than Eaton, but he also has a lower floor.

[mvp 78]

12 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

I think Brez viewed YRod as the best bet to make an impact.

He should fire whatever scout convinced him of that. 689 OPS in GRE. No power projection. Not a CF defensive profile. Not a burner.

[moonslav59]

8 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

He should fire whatever scout convinced him of that. 689 OPS in GRE. No power projection. Not a CF defensive profile. Not a burner.

Okay. You win.