Question of the week: Are you buying or selling?

[Brock Beauchamp]

If the trade deadline was today, how would you act?

[notin]

Both.  Assuming the Sox can stay within striking distance of a wild card spot over the next 5 weeks.

I would move an OF and focus on a return of controllable players, either early MLB or high minors, to make a more immediate impact.  This might mean acquiring prospects and then flipping them for more closer players…

[TheSplinteredSplendor]

8 minutes ago, notin said:

Both.  Assuming the Sox can stay within striking distance of a wild card spot over the next 5 weeks.

I would move an OF and focus on a return of controllable players, either early MLB or high minors, to make a more immediate impact.  This might mean acquiring prospects and then flipping them for more closer players…

Doing both is exactly what bloom tried to do and it rarely works. You either buy or sell IMO.

[mvp 78]

Thumbs up is what exactly? I'm double thumbs up on selling right now. 

[Bellhorn04]

Buying.

[notin]

1 hour ago, TheSplinteredSplendor said:

Doing both is exactly what bloom tried to do and it rarely works. You either buy or sell IMO.

Billy Beane did it quite often in Oakland. Detroit dealt away Flaherty, Chafin, etc. LAST YEAR and made the postseason…

[mvp 78]

2 minutes ago, notin said:

Billy Beane did it quite often in Oakland. Detroit dealt away Flaherty, Chafin, etc. LAST YEAR and made the postseason…

Tigers were 52-57 at the deadline. They didn't think they were making the playoffs at that point. 

[notin]

3 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

Tigers were 52-57 at the deadline. They didn't think they were making the playoffs at that point. 

And yet they did.  5 winning streaks of 4+ games in August and September helped a lot…

[mvp 78]

8 minutes ago, notin said:

And yet they did.  5 winning streaks of 4+ games in August and September helped a lot…

Right, but they weren't buying and selling at the deadline. They sold at the deadline, got hot afterwards and made the postseason. 

It proof that the Sox could deal Chapman, Duran and someone else, but still get hot enough to make the playoffs anyway. So why not just sell? 

[moonslav59]

I'm with notin, here.

Sell Story (+ $$$) and an OF'er not named Anthony, most likely for prospects or a RP & a prospect.

Then, buy, using chosen prospects, not named Anthony, Campbell or Mayer, unless we get someone like Crochet with 2+ years of team control and the ability to extend. I'd look to keep Arias, but to get a real good pitcher without trading one of the big 3, he probably has to go. (We have to keep once from Mayer and Arias, IMO.)

There farther away prospects don't bring back what they used to, but some have been moving up the farm ranks and are not so far away, anymore.

Perales (AA) is on the IL, but he still has good trade value.

Tolle, Clarke & Valera are all in A+, now. The AA guys are lower ranked: Early, Sandlin & Monegro.

Arias  (A+) & Romero (AA) have real trade value, too.

The AAA guy with 40 man roster status is Jh Garcia, who is raking, right now. Unless we plan to play him at 1B/DH, he's essentially blacked. If we end up trading Duran, Abreu or Rafaela, then we could keep him in the system.

Bleis (A+) and Cespedes (A-) might be the last two prospects holding significant trade value, right now- maybe Justin Gonzalez (A-) too.

Add-ins might include Jordan, Uberstine & Penrod (AAA,) Ehrhard, Mullins or Wehunt in AA and Taylor, Jo Garcia & Paez (A+)

If there is one thing our farm has, it is quantity of promising prospects, along with a few that just joined the top 100 or are looking to come close.

 

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Definitely selling. The Red Sox are in a rare position this year, with top prospects about to become core players, and a surplus of regulars that they would be remiss not to use in trade to improve what is always the biggest issue -- good young pitching.

In recent summers, the Sox had a few veterans that could've helped contenders at the deadline -- except Bloom froze. But this time, Breslow has available guys that will be in high demand: a star closer, a couple of starting pitchers, and at least one award-winning corner outfielder (All-Star MVP, Gold Glover)... not to mention, some bench specialists who can hit.

Standing pat again will be like standing water: stagnant.

[TheSplinteredSplendor]

35 minutes ago, notin said:

Billy Beane did it quite often in Oakland. Detroit dealt away Flaherty, Chafin, etc. LAST YEAR and made the postseason…

Yeah, and some people hit the Mega Millions as well.

Are you banking on that for retirement though?

The point is that it's rare.

[notin]

17 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

Right, but they weren't buying and selling at the deadline. They sold at the deadline, got hot afterwards and made the postseason. 

It proof that the Sox could deal Chapman, Duran and someone else, but still get hot enough to make the playoffs anyway. So why not just sell? 

Because the Sox pitching isn’t as good as Detroit’s last year.  They need an arm for the rotation at a minimum  and no one on the farm is close barring a miraculous recovery from Perales…

[moonslav59]

2 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

Right, but they weren't buying and selling at the deadline. They sold at the deadline, got hot afterwards and made the postseason. 

It proof that the Sox could deal Chapman, Duran and someone else, but still get hot enough to make the playoffs anyway. So why not just sell? 

The only time, we sort of bought AND sold was when we "sold" Vaz for Abreu & E Valdez, while making a bunch of minor "buys" like Pham, Hosmer and a sideways move of Diekman for R McGuire. I'm not sure I'd call this a Buy/Sell deadline, but it's the closest one, IMO.

2020: Total SELL: Workman & Hembree for Pivetta & Seabold was sort of sideways, except we gave up rentals for a younger MLB pitcher and a prospects, Pillar for J Wallace, Osich for PTBNL & Moreland for Potts & J Rosario.

2021: Total BUY: Aldo Ramirez for Schwarber, plus a couple minor buys like Chavis for A Davis and Scherff for Robles. Two, later additions helped, alot: Travis Shaw off waivers & signing Iggy in SEPT.

2022: See above

2023: BUY??? Scrubs like Llovera & Luis Urias? Sell??? (perhaps about to be DFA'd) Kike for prospects N Robertson J Hagenman. This was a clear DO NOTHING deadline by Bloom- not a buy, not a sell and not a buy & sell.

[notin]

3 minutes ago, TheSplinteredSplendor said:

Yeah, and some people hit the Mega Millions as well.

Are you banking on that for retirement though?

How often did Bloom buy and sell?  Maybe once in 2022, but he only brought in spare parts and ignored their bigger needs.    If the worst deadline GM ever is your only example, what do you have besides irrelevant extremes?

[TheSplinteredSplendor]

6 minutes ago, notin said:

How often did Bloom buy and sell?  Maybe once in 2022, but he only brought in spare parts and ignored their bigger needs.    If the worst deadline GM ever is your only example, what do you have besides irrelevant extremes?

He tried it in 2023 as well, where both seasons they should have been sellers.

[moonslav59]

16 minutes ago, 5GoldGlovesOF,75 said:

Definitely selling. The Red Sox are in a rare position this year, with top prospects about to become core players, and a surplus of regulars that they would be remiss not to use in trade to improve what is always the biggest issue -- good young pitching.

In recent summers, the Sox had a few veterans that could've helped contenders at the deadline -- except Bloom froze. But this time, Breslow has available guys that will be in high demand: a star closer, a couple of starting pitchers, and at least one award-winning corner outfielder (All-Star MVP, Gold Glover)... not to mention, some bench specialists who can hit.

Standing pat again will be like standing water: stagnant.

The Sell idea has a lot of merit, and for once, we have some guys with decent trade value:

The 1 year guys:

Bregman has option years and is on the IL, but if he is healthy of close to it, he'd bring back a nice return. (Remember, when we signed Schwarber, he was not ready to play.)

Chapman, assuming he is still going strong in 6 weeks, would bring back a decent return.

Buehler would not bring back much, right now, but if healthy and doing well, he could.

Wilson could get a decent prospect- same with Refsnyder.

Giolito and Hendriks are long shots at bringing anything back, except maybe salary relief for JH.

Log-jammed vets:

Story & Yoshida are like Gio & Hendriks, only more expensive and more years left to go. Casas would be selling low, IMO.

Duran, Abreu or Rafaela to make room for Anthony and maybe/eventually Jh Garcia.

Toro and or Romy? I'd keep both around as having more future value to us than anyone else.

Wong, Wink, Sogard and DHam will not bring much of anything back, but some team may want/need their services enough to give us something, and help us free up a roster slot for another guy.

[moonslav59]

4 minutes ago, TheSplinteredSplendor said:

He tried it in 2023 as well, where both seasons they should have been sellers.

Are you seriously calling trade for Luis Urias and Llovera attempts at buying?

I wouldn't call trading for Hosmer and Pham a "buy deadline," either.

Am I missing a big name we traded for in '22 or '23? Forget a big name, am I missing even a decent name?

[TheSplinteredSplendor]

4 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

Are you seriously calling trade for Luis Urias and Llovera attempts at buying?

I wouldn't call trading for Hosmer and Pham a "buy deadline," either.

Am I missing a big name we traded for in '22 or '23? Forget a big name, am I missing even a decent name?

Who said anything about big names?

The fact is that he didn't really unload any players when he had the chance and did buy, whether they were big names or not.

Especially 2022 when he traded vazquez and hung on to boegarts, martinez, and eovaldi amongst others.

[mvp 78]

30 minutes ago, notin said:

Because the Sox pitching isn’t as good as Detroit’s last year.  They need an arm for the rotation at a minimum  and no one on the farm is close barring a miraculous recovery from Perales…

Perales will pitch this year, but not in the BoSox rotation. If anything, it would be a turnaround from Bello and Dobbins and Fitts continuing and upward trajectory. I don't think Sandlin, Early, Monegro or other internal starters really have a shot until '26. Uberstine, Murphy and Penrod could all be called up to help the pen as they start to struggle. 

[urban cowboy]

1 hour ago, 5GoldGlovesOF,75 said:

Definitely selling. The Red Sox are in a rare position this year, with top prospects about to become core players, and a surplus of regulars that they would be remiss not to use in trade to improve what is always the biggest issue -- good young pitching.

In recent summers, the Sox had a few veterans that could've helped contenders at the deadline -- except Bloom froze. But this time, Breslow has available guys that will be in high demand: a star closer, a couple of starting pitchers, and at least one award-winning corner outfielder (All-Star MVP, Gold Glover)... not to mention, some bench specialists who can hit.

Standing pat again will be like standing water: stagnant.

this! sell for young pitching! We could make the playoffs this year, but the rotation and bullpen is brutal means we ain't going anywhere. Still a couple years away. 

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

When the Sox got Hosmer, they weren't really buyers. The Padres were just givers.

[mvp 78]

4 minutes ago, 5GoldGlovesOF,75 said:

When the Sox got Hosmer, they weren't really buyers. The Padres were just givers.

Vaz for Valdez and Abreu: Sell, but won the trade

Diekman for McGuire: Sell, but won the trade

Northcut for Pham: Kind of a buy, but Pham was just a warm body for a team that had nothing in the OF

Groome for Hosmer, Ferguson, Rosier: same answer as Pham, but they got prospects too

If they were really buying at the deadline, they would have added pitching and they did not (27th fWAR July, 22nd fWAR Aug - end of season). 

[dgalehouse]

The whole buyer/seller thing is just nonsense that somebody concocted and G.M.s are supposed to follow at the " deadline".  The fact is that any deals a G.M. makes at any time should be with the intent of improving the ballclub now and/or in the future. 

[Kimmi]

Buy, but not at the expense of the long term.  It's a fine line to tread, and typically ends up with moves that don't wow most fans.  Despite not having the wow factor, with a little luck, these moves can end up being very good moves.  I'm a fan of this philosophy, though I think most would disagree with me,

[Larry Cook]

We need to be strategic sellers!!

1.) We have Wilson, Chapman, giolita, refsynder and buehler on expiring contracts. 
2.) we have young players with years of control! 
3.) we have two lame contracts, story and yoshida! 

we need starting pitching!!  
 

there is a deal to be made!!  

The dodgers have 5 starters on the DL! Beuhler is a fit!  

San Diego, Philly and the royals need outfield help! 

Pittsburgh needs offense!
 

we get a quality starting pitcher at the trade deadline and maybe we make a push for the playoffs  

 

 

[moonslav59]

5 hours ago, TheSplinteredSplendor said:

Who said anything about big names?

The fact is that he didn't really unload any players when he had the chance and did buy, whether they were big names or not.

Especially 2022 when he traded vazquez and hung on to boegarts, martinez, and eovaldi amongst others.

You didn't say "big names," but you really call trading scrub prospects for Pham and then getting scrub prospects w Hosmer "buying?" That was my point.

It's a huge stretch to call that or trading for Urias and Llovera "buying."

Do you honestly consider that buying? It's almost like picking up guys off waivers.

[moonslav59]

3 hours ago, 5GoldGlovesOF,75 said:

When the Sox got Hosmer, they weren't really buyers. The Padres were just givers.

We got prospects with him and paid part of his deal. It was neither buy nor sell and not really both.

[moonslav59]

2 hours ago, mvp 78 said:

Vaz for Valdez and Abreu: Sell, but won the trade

Diekman for McGuire: Sell, but won the trade

Northcut for Pham: Kind of a buy, but Pham was just a warm body for a team that had nothing in the OF

Groome for Hosmer, Ferguson, Rosier: same answer as Pham, but they got prospects too

If they were really buying at the deadline, they would have added pitching and they did not (27th fWAR July, 22nd fWAR Aug - end of season). 

McGuire was a vet, so not a sell. It was more of a salary dump vet for vet deal.

I'd call that deadline a sell, due to the Vaz trade, and the others were so minor and or involved us getting prospects, that I just can't call it even an attempt at buying.

[moonslav59]

2 hours ago, Larry Cook said:

We need to be strategic sellers!!

1.) We have Wilson, Chapman, giolita, refsynder and buehler on expiring contracts. 
2.) we have young players with years of control! 
3.) we have two lame contracts, story and yoshida! 

we need starting pitching!!  
 

there is a deal to be made!!  

The dodgers have 5 starters on the DL! Beuhler is a fit!  

San Diego, Philly and the royals need outfield help! 

Pittsburgh needs offense!
 

we get a quality starting pitcher at the trade deadline and maybe we make a push for the playoffs  

Pitt is not a team that buys a vet w 2 months of control.